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Mordekaiser VGU talk; Themes, Gameplay, Problems and Co. @Reav3 @Meddler

Malicious Metal··121 votes·10,515 views

So Reav3 had recently given us some insight into which champions are currently sitting on the bench waiting for a full VGU to catapult them into the spotlight and bringing them up to date with League's always changing landscape. I wasn't surprised to see a very familiar face (If you can call two red eyes encased in a metal suit a face) on that list, someone who had been reworked exactly one year ago, albeit having been quite a disaster due to it being way too low scope and overly gimpy.

Mordekaiser, Numero Uno, The might of Brazil, the Master of Metal, Iron Revenant, whatever you want to call him has always been a champion very dear to me, being the main driving force for me to play League of Legends in the first place. He's one of League's oldest champions and his kit sadly didn't age very well, still being functional, no doubt seeing that I'm abusing him to reach Diamond this season but in terms of healthy design he's gotten the short end of the stick.

Anyways, I'm here to once again talk about League's very own Iron Man, giving some of my thoughts on what his VGU should entail and which core themes should be preserved at all cost. There won't be a TL;DR this time so bear with me.

Who is Mordekaiser? Mordekaiser is League's very own version of Sauron, the ultimate evil overlord who warps the very essence of life and death to fuel his undying quest for domination. He's an undead Warlord kept alive by sheer willpower and necromantic magic, his empire stretching over half of Valoran, having only been temporarily defeated when they stole the key to his endless cycle of resurrection. Now he's back in black, commanding the Black Mist to do his bidding as he thrives on its deathly energies, bolstering his ever growing army with souls of the dead, his crimson eyes set on Valoran, seeking to reclaim what was once his.

Pretty Badass, right? Well, Mordekaiser's the quintessential Bad Guy, his motivations beyond human comprehension, his appearance imposing and making mortals cover in fear, his physical prowess in battle only bolstered with deathly sorceries.

His Lore paints him as the stuff of legends, a name only spoken in hushed whispers and whose influence is still present in the capital he once called home; Noxus. He has the potential to truly become the epitome of a great evil, on the same level as Sauron, the Emperor and Voldemort himself.

What makes Mordekaiser who he is and why are they problematic in their current form? To understand what should be preserved in his rework one must first know what makes Mordekaiser feel like, well, the Murder Emperor. When you think Mordekaiser one thinks about his massive Shield and his powerful Ghosts. I feel like I'm repeating myself but Mordekaiser IS Iron Man, it's an ability deeply rooted in his character and overall appeal, his concept of dealing damage and thriving off the suffering he inflicts upon his enemies to sustain his onslaught being very fitting for a Juggernaut. His shield is one of his most iconic abilities and yet it comes with a huge balancing issue: It's a shield that neither scales with AP, AD, health or mana but with DAMAGE dealt. Tying survivability to damage dealt has always been problematic as was seen when Riot changed it on Vlad and Swain to better balance them. And yet Mordekaiser's E bypasses the need to deal damage with it being based on a percentage of his maximum shield.

His passive is either too strong or too weak based on factors Mordekaiser has no immediate influence on. If he's ahead he'll be unkillable, is he behind his passive could be called Paper Man

But Iron Man's only 50% of what Morde is, the other is his ultimate Children of the Grave, which could potentially turn a losing game around by turning it into a 6v4 (A great song by AoD).

Its problems lie in it cloning an entire champion as well as BUFFING it with Morde's own stats. Like Iron Man its impact is determined by factors other than simple stats, scaling on how strong the affected enemy is and being either one of the best or the worst ultimate abilities depending on the clone you'll get.

The Tragedy here is that Mordekaiser's entire Identity's founded on concepts that cannot be allowed to exist in their current form, being unhealthy designs that are not constant but depend on factors Mordekaiser himself can't really decide himself. His VGU should aim to retain his Identity but change his kit so that it could be one Riot's allowed to support and balance in the future.

What is Dead may never die Mordekaiser is an undead Revenant who just refuses to stay dead, which ties into his Iron Man passive. He thrives on conquest and suffering, the midst of battle being where he feels alive, the misery of his enemies sustaining him and fueling his onslaught.

Mordekaiser's durability should be tied to him fighting in the enemy lines, being susceptible to being poked and kited but becoming a real monster when he does get in range, his very presence causing agony and death, draining his surroundings of their life as he prolongs his own. Mordekaiser already excels at surviving otherwise lethal encounters with his arsenal of heavy hitting AoE that funnel his shield and keep him going.

His VGU should retain the feel of him thriving on all the negative emotions of his enemies and live off the suffering and torment he causes. If it would be up to me to decide on how to implement such a feature I'd still go for a shield but instead of being solely based on damage dealt I'd a percentage of his maximum shield amount to it like his current Siphon of destruction. It would still allow him to invest in damage like a Juggernaut should but also allow him to have a constant influx of shield and not be shut down when behind or the enemy stacking MR.

Your Soul shall serve the dead A few months ago I suggested a new ultimate for Mordekaiser, replacing the single ghost of an enemy with upwards to five Wraiths whose stats were based half on Mordekaiser's own and the other by a target enemy champion, the ghost spawning instantly instead of requiring the target to die would make his ultimate have an immediate impact while keeping the whole commander of Souls theme but I'm digressing.

Mordekaiser's lore paints him as a being capable of not only sustaining himself through necromancy but also wielding it in a very proficient way, being able to bind Liches to his will as well as raising the dead to do his bidding. Mordekaiser needs this to be present in his kit in some way or the other, him holding dominion over the very fabric of life and death to twist souls to serve him in eternity. No matter how strong you were in life, your soul will serve the dead, and you'll be forced to witness the destruction of all you hold dear. This is the horror of Mordekaiser's curse and should really be kept in his design.

Warlock or Warlord? Both! This point will be rather brief but Mordekaiser NEEDS to be a Hybrid, tapping into both AD and AP. His lore paints him to not only be able to crush his foes with his sheer strength but also having unfathomable sorcery to utilize in his enemies' destruction. He's a warlord Mage who empowers his already impressive battle prowess with magic, having a wide arsenal of ways to destroy you. It makes his itemization very versatile since he'd still build mostly tank but can utilize a wide array of offensive items.

Metal We've had this discussion before on the Story and Art boards but Metal is something many people attribute to Mordekaiser and it should be kept in his design, yet not be the sole theme. It would make him nothing more than a parody of the Metal genre if you were to make him use metal just for the hell of it but it could and should be kept in some way. Him being a Wraith encased in metal armor is a great starting point, seeing that he empowers his weaponry with deathly energies, turning the already lethal metal into unholy objects of destruction- And let's be honest, seeing a massive behemoth in metal armor surrounded by a storm of metal shrapnel infused with necromantic energies is pretty darn badass-

So to summarize a bit: -Juggernaut -Hybrid -Damage and Durability -Soul stealing -Battle-bound tankiness

I think I've covered most of the things I believe are crucial to rework Mordekaiser while improving on his design and keeping everything that makes Mordekaiser Morde intact and building on that fantasy of the Dark Lord/Deathknight Archetype.

http://66.media.tumblr.com/6e4ab0ea710236a75cb9495bf5f57eac/tumblr_o3ofom6BuJ1ucq9cfo1_500.png

137 Comments

ltmetal28 votes

Mordekaiser mains' wishlist for his VGU:

  1. Hybrid Juggernaut with zero mobility
  2. Emphasis on Passive and Ult, abilities that synergize with passive
  3. Solo lane viability
  4. Particles and Visuals with dark and metallic effects (the sound effects and voice over are so good already, this would really be a home run)
  5. Removal of hidden power (attack range, bonus XP, etc)
Raid Boss Morde5 votes

I wouldn't mind if they gave him some (very little) mobility, almost every other juggernaut has mobility, so why can't he? (exceptions: Darius/Nasus, but they have both have CC).

I also don't mind if they keep the spooky visuals, he is Shadow Isles.

Best princess EU3 votes

cause morde is balanced around not having cc/mobility (ie his third hit)

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

Well yeah, that's why you would change his Q. He needs a rework anyways.

IGotScuttleCrabs4 votes

They could keep his 3hit Q but maybe change it to the 3rd hit cause the enemy to stagger

Goodnight Nunu24 votes

I feel mobility doesn't fit Morde at all. Perhaps some CC but mobility is just iffy.

Raid Boss Morde2 votes

Mobility makes no sense on Gragas either. The largest champions in the games all have way more movement speed, which doesn't fit at all. I would like a small amount of CC though.

TurquoiseYoshi27 votes

Alcohol makes people do crazy things...

CoffeeDave3 votes

How about instead of mobility, he can magnatize himself to pull the enemy towards him. I'm thinking of a slow Diana (E). Enough to pull you in, but soft enough that the opponets can try to run away.

All Day Tay Tay2 votes

i think his w being more like a nasus slow on an enemy would be better than a moveboost on him. make it latch on an enemy, and it damages enemys around them (but not the person the slow is on), as well as slow that person down?

another way i would make him have a slow is the closer you are to him, the stronger a slow he has, like a passive slow

Rimgon1 votes

If I remember correctly, bad mobility is one of the defining features of juggernauts?

Raid Boss Morde4 votes

Well yeah, that is supposed to be a defining characteristic, that's why I'm saying a small amount of mobility. Let's look at the Juggernauts though! (these were taken from the subclass article posted by Riot)

Nasus: 350 Movement Speed with a very strong slow

Darius: 340 Movement Speed with a pull and 2 slows

Illaoi: 340 Movement Speed with a short, targeted Gap Closer, and a conditional slow

Trundle: 350 Movement Speed with a large Movement Speed boost, 1 weak slow, 1 strong slow, and displacement (pillar)

Olaf: 350 Movement Speed with a slow, a Movement Speed boost, and CC immunity

Garen: 340 Movement Speed with a large Movement Speed boost

Shyvana: 350 Movement Speed with a large Movement Speed boost, and gap closer (on her ultimate though, so long CD)

Udyr: 345 Movement Speed with a stun, a large Movement Speed boost, and a small Movement Speed boost on each skill

Dr. Mundo: 345 Movement Speed with a spammable slow, and a Movement Speed boost

Volibear: 345 Movement Speed with a large Movement Speed boost, "toss", and a strong slow

Yorick: 345 Movement Speed with a conditional Movement Speed boost, and slow

**Mordekaiser: 325 Movement Speed with a conditional Movement Speed Boost **

You see what's wrong with this? I understand that Juggernauts are supposed to be slow and have low CC, but Mordekaiser is basically nothing compared the other Juggernauts in terms of mobility/CC/stickiness. Most of the Juggernauts have ABOVE average movement speed, along with either CC or ways to catch up to people.

Of all the Juggernauts, he deserves to have the most CC for being the least mobile. Honestly, just giving him a small root/stun OR giving him back some movement speed, maybe 345 like the other juggernauts, would make me completely happy.

Sorry for the wall!

GaleWinUnleashed5 votes

Wouldn't hurt to have his VO boosted by several minutes. Old Karthus had 9 voice lines, and Mordekaiser is in a similar situation.

Malicious Metal7 votes

All the Metal references! faints

Blue Moon Wolf13 votes

Mordekaiser to TwistedFate: The only card I need is the (M)ACE OF SPADES Mordekaiser to Gnar: You are no Superbeast, Yordle! Mordekaiser to Azir: Enter, Sandman... I will send you off to neverland! Mordekaiser to mecha Sion: You are indeed the craziest of trains, thinking you can defeat me. Mordekaiser to Blitzcrank: There can only be one "Iron man" Mordekaiser getting shot by a marksman: Shoot me again, I ain't dead yet.

Malicious Metal6 votes

Nose starts bleeding profoundly

So much Metal!

Dies

Mordekaiser Yo, don't die on me yet, fool!

rises from the dead

Mistress Madoka4 votes

Mordekaiser buys item 2003 : (Death metal Growling) DO YOU FOLKS LIKE COFFEE

hipopotosaur2 votes

i respect you on the highest of levels for this

Lord Boltrix13 votes

Ultimately the way I see things, there has to be a way for Mordekaiser to create a situation where he can act and put things in his favor, in addition we also need to avoid clashing with the potential identity of Yorick as someone who raises the dead (Yorick seems to stick to a physical ressurection of the undead form, whereas Mordekaiser prefers the ethereal form of undead souls to command and conquer). In regards to creating a situation that favors him, the usual method of accomplishing this is creating some form of mobility or crowd control, which allows a champion to create a favorable situation.

Our dream Mordekaiser is a champion who can function without a means of crowd control or mobility, which means we need to find other methods of creating moments of power for Mordekaiser against enemies.

To that end, we need to prove that champions can exist without some form of crowd control or mobility and still be viable.

Perhaps instead, Mordekaiser can act in spite of crowd control and mobility?

Tenacity has always been discussed on Mordekaiser, and it seems fitting that someone with arguably one of if not the most powerful will in this universe (you can make an argument that once anything has crossed the Threshhook of death {lel} while cursed, Mordekaiser can take its soul and dominate it), would be able to simply resist the disruptive effects of crowd control to a degree. Whether this could be something he just naturally has within his kit, or which he has to work for to obtain or maintain is up for debate.

The answer to mobility is range, the ability to act in a distance long enough that any sort of mobility effect that isn't extreme (Leblanc or Kassassin for example) is rendered moot.

The question is how to implement such methods of play without compromising Mordekaiser's identity.

I think the implementation of those ethereal servants that Mordekaiser is purported to command would be the answer.

I think an answer to how to make Children of the Grave function without having to rely solely on a champion kill is give it a different effect when cast without a champion in mind to target. If Mordekaiser were to cast his ultimate without targeting an enemy champion, he could summon a number of spirits to his side and command them to seek out enemy champions and drain life and might from them.

Said ghosts could then function like FQC and seek out enemy champions to attach to and drain of might and magic, maybe stealing health like the traditional ultimate curse (but adjusted for having multiple ghosts out there, all potentially able to chase and affect targets) and/or attack damage and/or ability power. Yes, you have a sort of multiple-ghost curse potential but you wouldn't benefit from the full power of the curse and gain an undead servant since Mordekaiser is spreading himself thin to affect all his opposition... or perhaps Mordekaiser COULD take the soul of an enemy killed while cursed by one of these ghosts, but perhaps Mordekaiser must go over and collect the soul himself (which could be dangerous in the middle of a teamfight, especially is this were made into a channel), and maybe said spirit has already been weakened by the ghost attached to them, and thus they return in a weakened state.

It would tie in with his whole theme of commanding spirits for himself, a true warlord of battle and undeath.

In regards to tenacity, I think a combination of passive and active tenacity would be perfect for himself, with him having some manner of crowd control resistance innately just for being who he is, and creating moments where he can act in spite of anything the enemy has to throw at him, damage-wise or cc-wise.

Perhaps like his damage shield, Mordekaiser could obtain some form of shield that weakens and potentially nullifies a single instance of crowd control against him, not really sure how this would work in my opinion, so it's just me trying to throw ideas to see what sticks more than anything else.

Mordekaiser's Q is unique and cool and the third hit always feels satisfying to us, but I do miss having the potential to hit multiple targets like the old Q. Perhaps the third hit could have an aoe put into it, like an electric backlash of kinetic and ethereal force from the impact being that powerful, and give us a bit of that nostalgia back.

His Siphon is as satisfying to use as always, I just have trouble explaining how your Attack Damage increases your ability to literally wreak necromantic destruction (at least if it had the metal maces popping out like before, it would make sense... sorta), but then again this is league of legends, there are a few inconsistencies here and there like that, and it's just a personal pet peeve of mine.

Harvester of Sorrow is a mess in my personal opinion, it's cool in theory but the hidden power of the experience boost is just something that thematically still doesn't make sense (does he use the memories of slain foes to improve his own combat expertise?) and has yet to be answered. The dependency on having an ally to utilize your aoe damage thematically makes Mordekaiser seem weak, unable to get anything done without a lackey at his side, having said lackey should just be a bonus.

On the subject of Harvester of Sorrow and allies, I feel that without the metal theme of magnetism to explain how he and his ally move faster moving towards each other (does he have invisible spirits who he commands to speed things up? In which case why doesn't he just do this all the time?) is confusing as a whole. If Mordekaiser is to be someone who commands the battlefield and brings some form of utility to the team, it should be something that seems fitting for himself, and something that can be explained.

I think a method of this that would thematically make sense would be to implement a Bond of Stone-like effect between Mordekaiser and his Harvesting ally, allowing Mordekaiser to direct a portion of incoming damage towards whoever has higher current health. Fitting his theme of the sharing of pain with others, he can share his own pain with his allies to lessen an unnecessary burden on himself, or take more of a burden upon himself so that someone more vulnerable than himself but still useful is able to survive a difficult situation.

ltmetal2 votes

I would love to see Tenacity or CC cleansing on Morde, but only if it's very obvious to himself and his opponents that the tenacity is activated. For example, if traces appeared around his model when slowed similar to summoner 6 or particles burst from his model when cleansing similar to summoner 1 .

Malicious Metal6 votes

This, I like this.

Tengrichan1 votes

I think the only things that should be reserved in his kit is the old Q with prolly some new mechanic tied to it and/or his passive.His current kit is just bad.Sorry CertainlyT. Ulti needs to change.Perhaps he could summon a big ghost hand from the otherverse to emerge from the ground and grab enemies in an area. Grabbed units take greatly increased damage from Mordekaiser or the hand just deals more damage the more enemies it grabs. Idea is make the new ulti reliable with a self buff or damage amplification tied into it or CC.

Lord Boltrix4 votes

I would hope my friend that you are joking on that ultimate ability.

Zackeryss6 votes

If they remove the "You only need to click once, fool!" line he has, I will go on a rampage. Seriously this line is the one thing that kept me playing league for a long time.

Malicious Metal3 votes

Hell, my father has no clue about League but he knows that there's a champion with that particular quote^^

Wukong X Ahri4 votes

http://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Daniel-Bryan-YES-YES-YES.gif

Hit the nail on the head.

genya034 votes

Mordekaiser rework I hear? In that case, give me the old kit. I be happy.

Mazariamonti4 votes

I just want his feet to be smaller

OyddAWqJ5r4 votes

Well the logic behind his Metal bending could be that he converts souls into metal (and back into souls). Thus dealing damage to enemies strips away their spirit energy--which he converts into a metallic shield for himself. The stronger the soul, the more durable the metal created of it.

His mace, Nightfall, could have been created from the soul of a reknown hero or epic monster. Perhaps an old figurehead for one of the major nations of Runeterra or even the Ruined King himself (don't exactly know who it is--or if it is undead).

His armor could be what his soul manifested as upon becoming undead--along with his powers over soul-metal manipulation and conversion abilities. His armor is what his actual health is while the soul-metal armor covering it is what his passive is. He probably only uses the most powerful souls to repair his actual "body", which would make sense in his R--where he uses his powers over manipulating souls themselves to forcefully rip the soul of a worthy adversary (a champion) to convert into his "body".

As for the "magnetic" speed boost gained from W could be better defined as the souls surrounding himself and the target being drawn to one another--boosting their movement speed towards each other. The damage component is the souls converting into metal to grind against his living enemies.

His E is him sending souls through the earth in a cone--converting them into metal when they lash up at his enemies.

Hope you like this concept :) You're an inspiration to all us board dwellers.

Over Innsmouth3 votes

You forgot Metal music puns in his ability names (unless you're gunning for a more serious incarnation for the Paladin of Pain).

In any case,

https://m.popkey.co/ac6a4c/oDb37.gif

Morde is like Vlad's bigger, more badass, less-of-a-bitch brother who really wades into battle without self-sustaining floaties. I will always have infinite respect for Morde and his mains.

Blood Magicks3 votes

Lucky Malicious, his waifu will finally get to be pretty.

Malicious Metal5 votes

Wait a minute...

Are you implying Morde ain't pretty?!

Blood Magicks5 votes

Dorito feet much?

:^) ^ ^

Malicious Metal7 votes

You know what they say about men with big feet :^)

Combozone1 votes

Big...shoes?

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

Yes. Mordekaiser's model is, shall we say, an acquired taste.

Odyssey855 votes

TahmKench Someone say an acquired taste?

Swaid2 votes

I hope Mordekaiser gets his complete rework soon; I own all of his skins thanks to mystery gifts and as he is now, I just can't get into him. Perhaps I'm playing him wrong and to be honest, I have no idea what to build for him.

Merxamers2 votes

if you're playing him duo lane, like Riot wants him, you want to start item 3302 + health pots; core items are

item 3116 item 3742 item 3053 + mixture of tank and damage; item 3001 item 3143 item 3078 are decent options. I haven't experimented much with the new Revolver items, but they seem like they'd be useful as well.

ltmetal2 votes

12/0/18 masteries making sure to take Double Edged Sword, Natural Talent, Runic Armor, and Grasp of the Undying. Magic Pen or AD marks, armor seals, scaling magic resist glyphs, Armor or AP quints. Solo lane: item 1001 item 3116 item 3111 item 3152 item 3143 item 3065 item 3151 W, E, E, Q, max E, max Q, max W Duo lane: item 3302 item 3116 item 3047 item 3078 item 3065 item 3053 item 3742 W, E, Q, max W, max Q, max E The secret to success is to buy lots of potions until you finish Rylai's and land the second cast of your W on enemy champions.

Jungle: item 3706 item 1001 item 3116 item 3111 item 1401 item 3078 item 3053 item 3512 W, Q, E, max Q, max W, max E Don't run penetration in your rune page since it doesn't help with clearing. I recommend Strength of the Ages with AD marks, armor seals, scaling magic resist glyphs, and movespeed quints. ALWAYS TAKE item 1039 since it synergizes better with AoE kits.

Mordekaiser is the type of champion who seems really underwhelming until you learn the very limit of the amount of damage it takes to kill you. You don't need practice to land his abilities, you can always turn a losing lane around by getting a dragon ghost or your Rylai's, but you won't turn into a snowballing raid boss until you learn exactly how much punishment you can take.

Malicious Metal6 votes

He works mate! I run 12/0/18 masteries with Strength of the Ages and build him Hybrid Offtank item 3116 item 3053 item 3146 item 3065 item 3742

And I'm currently on my way to Diamond. He takes a bit getting used to but he's pretty solid.

Veltox2 votes

How about something similar with Vladimir crimson rush?at full shield he will be immune to crowd control or just tenacity for x seconds.

Wild Geese2 votes

I just don't like where he is right now. He does less damage in exchange for a bunch of tools he never needed.bonus xp.. dragon control, ally shield/heal... what a mess.

Mordekaiser is just a guy who does damage and takes damage well. Unlike Garen, Darius and the like, he has absolutely no CC. But more damage potential hybrid itemization, and his ultimate ability, his game changer.

That's all, If Riot wants to change the shield mechanic, even replace it, It doesn't matter much to me; As long as he has a tanky mechanic and good damage that permits him to the same kind of character he used to be.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

As long as he isn't awful to play against in lane like he is now, I'll take whatever you got MM.

dragon1xx1 votes

I never got the Morde Brazilian thing.

Elewd2 votes

before there was more global servers when the brazilian players played the NA server the ping was so bad the only champ possible to play at a good competitive level was mordekaiser. the others were like, Warwick

ButtKrakkenLakin1 votes

I am a morde main. literally he just needs more movement speed and his kit is perfect

Malicious Metal3 votes

I am a Morde main too and I feel he's in a decent spot power wise but his kit in its current shape or form won't be allowed to be strong due to it being somewhat unhealthy and having some rather poor design choices.

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