Can We Aggressively Bind Udyr?

The Yetii Rider·Oct 4, 2016·1 votes·544 views

Udyr is a juggernaut. He fits the theme, he runs at people and stays stuck to them.

Can we update his kit to reflect the juggernaut update? Juggernauts are bound to total AD scaling and health.

Some suggestions:

Increase Udyr's scaling AD to give him better late game synergy with Sterak's Gage and Spellblade.

Change Turtle Style to scale his shield on bonus health instead of AP.

Change Turtle Style's lifesteal to heal on-hit that scales with total AD (similar to lifesteal, but allows tankier builds and functions better against armor stacking)

Passive - Instead of AS, maybe give armor and MR per stance activation, to make health stacking more useful.

Leave Phoenix alone for AP builds.

20 Comments

RalanrOct 4, 20162 votes

I'm worried this would make his shield ridiculous considering how fast he can swap stances and how much health he builds.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm worried this would make his shield ridiculous considering how fast he can swap stances and how much health he builds.

It still costs mana and the only "juggernaut" item that gives mana is Righteous Glory. Trinity Force gives a bit.

It would balance itself out with Udyr taking longer to kill his targets with AD than with bloodrazor, so he needs to survive longer.

RalanrOct 4, 20161 votes

Oh right, Udyr can actually run out of mana.

AramsAreBestOct 4, 20161 votes

Frozen heart frozen gauntlet

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Frozen heart frozen gauntlet

Frozen Heart isn't a juggernaut item. You would be better off building more health to get a bigger first shield to absorb burst than you would burning an item slot with no AD or health.

AramsAreBestOct 4, 20161 votes

What shield

Chamuel85Oct 4, 20162 votes

How are juggernauts bound to Total AD scaling and HP? Mordekaiser scales mostly off of AP. There is a bunch of AD scaling as well, but he's mostly a mage style juggernaut.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

How are juggernauts bound to Total AD scaling and HP? scales mostly off of AP. There is a bunch of AD scaling as well, but he's mostly a mage style juggernaut.

Mordekaiser was a bad update. Riot acknowledges they need to rework him again.

Better examples of juggernauts: Shyvana, Mundo, Garen, Darius.

Chamuel85Oct 4, 20161 votes

I guess that I never read that. Do you have a link to where they said it? Usually they mention why he was a bad update too.

Brutalitops01Oct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I guess that I never read that. Do you have a link to where they said it? Usually they mention why he was a bad update too.

They said he was a bad update because they tried to force him into filling a niche role that doesn't really exist, a melee bot lane carry, which no juggernaut will ever be able to fill the role. If an ADC has anything resembling kiting mechanics, Mordekaiser will never be able to touch them and therefore always lose 2v2 fights in bot lane. The only reason he worked for a little bit on rework was because his stats and scalings were way overtuned, making him much too powerful. Once Riot nerfed him out of busted territory, he just became even more useless than he was before the juggernaut rework.

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

I've never thought of Udyr as a juggernaut :l

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've never thought of Udyr as a juggernaut :l

What is he then? He doesn't have a gap closer so he's not a diver. His primary focus is damage so he's not a warden or a vanguard.

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

Not necessarily saying you're wrong but it doesn't Udyr fits in with the rest of the subclass because juggernaut damage tends to be a lot higher than at least in terms of base damage.

I guess it's really an issue with Riot's classification or at least what I would perceive as a juggernaut.

Either way though he shouldn't be updated specifically to fit the standard of a juggernaut.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

That's the point of the subclass list though, to match members of the different subclasses together and judge them in that context.

We do it all the time with marksmen. If we can demand Caitlyn be weaker so she isn't better than Tristana or Twitch, we can demand that Udyr be stronger so he isn't overshadowed by Darius or Garen.

You're right his base damage is low, but if he has more reason to build AD than he will be fine.

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

That's the thing though, Udyr fulfills a completely different role in the game than either Darius or Garen so I don't think that comparison or line of reasoning is very valid.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

That's the thing though, Udyr fulfills a completely different role in the game than either Darius or Garen so I don't think that comparison or line of reasoning is very valid.

What role is that, exactly?

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

First and foremost he is a jungler, a split pusher, counter jungler, objective controller, he chases down, sets up and follows up with his team using his stun on hit which is really powerful to nullify priority targets, he sets up more to snowball lane.

He is also among the consistently fastest champions in the game due to the effects of his E.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

First and foremost he is a jungler, a splitpusher, counterjungler, objective controller, he chases down, sets up and follows up with his team using his stun on hit which is really powerful to nullify priority targets,

He is also among the consistently fastest champions in the game due to the effects of his E.

Riot is not going to support counterjungling, they've opposed it actively since season 2.

Udyr's split pushing relies on Zzrot, which Riot has talked about removing.

At any rate, Riot publicly disagrees with you. My argument which draws a natural conclusion from Riot's accepted premise automatically has more validity than yours which rejects it, at least from the argument of future changes BY Riot

RequiemsfireOct 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAvAeqkw,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-04T18:13:54.313+0000)

Udyr's split pushing relies on Zzrot, which Riot has talked about removing.

Stopped reading here. This is completely wrong, you have no idea.

The Yetii RiderOct 4, 20161 votes