Stands there autoing down Darius at 4 minutes into the game. LATE GAME CHAMPION BTW GUYS.
LET'S NERF JAX Q BY 15 DAMAGE AND LOWER HIS AD BY -2. We are not going to touch his other problems no. THERE WE GO JAX IS BALANCED. - Rito full r***** balance team.
Jax can win early game match ups through a bullshit Counter Strike that blocks all AAs and reduces AOE by 25%, and standing there autoing you down.
Ðroxx8 votesNah jax is fine. Its not like he can literially eat dirt in the early game and then somehow carry a team to victory because of his ultimate passive and counter-strike
Z3Sleeper2 votesSadly that's the best case scenario when playing against Jax.
xDogMeatx5 votesi mean jax HAS A WEAK late game rightt... i mean since his early game is great his late game should be bad lolol. 
(yes i noticed shen actually does damage for no damn reason i mean he only two rotations you during trades. 2 trades= you die) btw this isnt sarcasm champs who are supposed to be weak early are actually strong early is a problem. weak early champs should have 40 or something ad to start out while having large ad growth for late game to compensate.
FOR JUSTICE2 votesshen has high base damages to make up for him not having a 1v1 combat ult, like pantheon.
xDogMeatx1 votesTrue but he's supposed to trade 3 or 5 times before killing not a 2 q then you escape with almost half up then taunt q instant death. How is there counterplay to that considering I'm a melee champ like warwick. His e dash is undodgable since my melee nature.
MorganFreemanBot5 votesIf Darius stands there auto trading, he loses to most stat check champions all game long (on roughly equal gold). Trundle, Udyr, Jax, Olaf, and plenty of other dudes are fully capable of standing in melee range pre level 6 and just murdering him.
It's been that way for a long fucking time.
His strength comes from being able to chunk in skirmishes with a hard-hitting combo that heals him.. -Or- being able to kite moderately mobile melee champs using both his E and W, allowing him to let Q keep him in the game until he gets 5 stacks, at which point he turns around and wins the fight.
Darius hasn't been a stat check since before his rework, and he loses to stat check champions (on equal footing) pretty much all game.
Ahri Baka4 votesI don't mind his current early , actually his early game is balanced the problem is when he gets items he becomes completely BS
Haze974 votesInstead of asking Riot to fix Jax for once how about we for once all them to fix Darius instead?
Darius is far too squishy for a juggernaut and the fact that he has zero mobility doesn't help. He needs 5 attacks to be worth anything and for an early game champ doesn't beat a single other champion who has an actually good early game. The last Darius buff gave him a ton of damage yes, but that's hardly what he needed. He is still squishy, needs survivability, and has to build a fuck ton of armour in order to take as many hits as Garen or Urgot do just by existing.
Go play Darius (or Jax) against an actual early game lane bully such as Pantheon, Jayce, or Volibear and you'll realize you get shoved under the tower far more easily.
Princess Bunhead7 votesDarius is shit atm, this burst, dashes/extreme movespeed, knockups and ranged top champions meta just absolutely screws him.
Also, why the fuck does Camille and Jax get so much lower CDs on the mobility (and counterstrike) than Darius does for his E? Is that really so much stronger? (No, it isn't...) I mean, Jax Q (10-6s), Jax E (16-8s, and he uses SoS to boot), Camille E (16-10), while Darius starts at fucking 24s, and goes down to 12s in the midgame...
Darius really should get a short ~3s duration resistance bonus, or dmg reduction, scaling with how many champions he apprehends... and at 3+ people make him unstoppable for the duration. Would make him actually able to engage without blowing up...
Thefrostyviking1 votesBecause Darius E is offensive and has a absolutely broken range indicator----the second isnt his fault but it is much bigger than indicated and much stronger too.
Camilie´s is actually reasonable to a degree, while long as hell it´s at least a skillshot and does not work without standing close to a wall.
And Jax is pretty much impotent if you can deny his E, Darius for instance i am pretty sure can use his E to buffer or outright dodge it.
The problem with Darius isnt that he is bad once he catches up to the enemy team, rather at this point he can be really good.
The problem is that he pretty much never does, abundance of stuff like Morgana/thresh ensures that.
Princess Bunhead5 votesI'm actually gonna hard disagree on that - Darius atm is very squishy, and can't front line for shit. His only real option is getting 5 stacks on their frontline and make a flash play, or make a flash play in general - as he'll just die otherwise (or, as you implied, get kited to hell and back). Only way to forego this, is being insanely fed... Which, if that was on Jax/Riven/Camille, would be far more terrifying.
Camille E, and Jax Q/E is far stronger than Darius E, due to them being very versatile - mobility/defensive/offensive, and I daresay Jax counterstrike is one of the most broken basic abilities in the game, when paired with SoS.
Darius is impotent without his E too, and it's on a far longer CD (50% higher). That, and hard scaling champions being able to 1v1 Darius early, if both play at a high skill level. Jax just has to use his abilities correct, and he goes even with Darius at worst. Riven gets to 6 without dying and getting Caulfields, and it's over for Darius - she has all the agency, and if she has ignite, she can burst him 100-0.
What's even worse - due to their mobility, and his lack there of, Darius is also far easier to gank in those lanes...
But, I'll give you the hitbox is kinda wonky on the Darius E, but it really goes both ways. I've apprehended many times, where I'm sure it hit, but they happily straddle along. New kayle is a prime example of hitbox not matching what you see...
Thefrostyviking1 votesKayle´s hitbox is misleading i´ll give you that, putting it mildly, the actual character is floating above ground and its not visually clear where her actual hitbox on the ground is when she moves.
Now as for hardscaling champs being able to beat Darius early 1v1, which ones? I cant think off any except Fiora really, Darius can buffer jax E to render it mostly harmless and then beat him,Riven does beat Darius if i recall and......not many other melee toplaners really scale that well?
Fiora, Jax and Riven are probably the best in that regard, at least i think so, but Riven is super reliant on Flash to really do work later.
But i disagree on Darius being squishy though, he only dies too quickly because there are too many overtuned damage carries of which a leading example is Vayne.
Princess Bunhead4 votesI'm sorry mate, hate pulling this card, but you just don't seem like you know that much about top lane dynamics and the champions there of - no hate, though. Feel free to inform me I'm wrong, though - more than willing to listen! ;)
You're right that Darius can E and run away if Jax counterstrikes - but even then, Darius has a 8s longer CD on Apprehend. And if Darius does error of using the Q in lane, Jax instantly jumps in, if he has passive stacked, AA->W->E, and it's over for Darius - whos only option is to run away, resulting in a bad trade, as Jax will have conq up, and Darius wouldn't win an extended trade either.
Darius' only hope is the Jax panics if you E him, so you get a free E->W/Q combo off. Jax holds all the tools, and as I said, if he plays correctly, he goes even with Darius at worst. Jax short CDs just making him an absolute nightmare to be against - and impossible when slightly ahead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEqOETgq3G4
^ Is roughly about how it goes, when the Jax is any good.
I'd be happy if you showed me an actually good Jax lose to a Darius - and as I said before, a good jungler will usually note Darius is vulnerable as fuck to ganks, and help give Jax a lead.
Thefrostyviking1 votesTrue i dont play toplane frequently at all, but using the likely chance of Darius being screwed for making a mistake as a argument isnt really a good indication of how the matchup goes x)
After all that goes for jax as well.
To me it seems that early Darius should by all means win that fight, after all jax cant really fight anything without his E at first but Darius doesnt have to use his.
So if Darius simply plays around Jax he can harass and poke as much as he wants, if Jax tries to trade back with the E Darius can then easily just buffer with his own and then screw Jax pretty badly.
Of course this turns when Jax reaches the point of no longer needing his E to fight, i think this would be the time when he either gets trinity force or just levels up sufficiently, so it would presumably be crucial for Darius to win the lane early on to extend the time he wins as much as possible.
Which to me doesnt seem like a impossible task, difficult but just winning lane and getting ahead in CS doesnt seem like it would be hard for some time.
Then finally, that Darius....doesnt he misplay really badly? He needs his E to beat Jax´s but he goes basically all in at 2 and ends up completely screwed for it, that death put Jax in such a great spot.
While i personally think Jax is a bit overtuned early for his scaling that video was still just mostly a case of Darius throwing horribly, at least the first death, and the second death was even worse.
Darius actually uses his Q first having seen how Jax will just jump on him, then he doesnt use his E when Jax does and ends up stunned, then uses his own E and misses before still playing aggro despite having just lost a notably larger amount of health than jax did and having burned his all important E.
Then Jax just backs off a little ,waits for Q to come back then goes back in, starts trading autos, uses Q on Darius Q (who´d expect?) and then just autowins the fight due to the already large healthlead from Darius using his abilities incorrectly and jax using more auto attacks in the meanwhile.
Honestly it kinda felt like watching a Renekton go in with his fury charged up, he sees jax use E and the renekton still tries to use his W for a fury stun despite how jax will just block it and trade back, but worse, way worse.
That Darius was awful, even i as a midlane/botlane primary can tell.
Princess Bunhead3 votesThe point of the mention of a mistake, was to make a point out of, if Darius uses an ability to harass, he's gonna get punished. He can do E->W->Q, sure - but his trade rotation (which doesn't outtrade Jax' combo btw) has a longer CD - so it either turns into a farm lane, which leads to Jax inevitably winning, hard. Or try do do something, in which, if both play 100% correct, Jax will win. There's no real "playing" around Jax - only way Darius wins, is if Jax fucks up. He has the tools - with lower critical CDs than Darius.
And you're really stretching to make the Darius horrible with that comparison of Renekton - but yes, Darius does indeed misplay to some extent in this - but, seeing your commentator skills are on point, I wonder if you can tell me what he should have done instead, to come out on top in this lane? You can find vids of korean Darius getting fed of Jax, but those videos are where the Jax makes mistakes befitting of silver players... Not shitting you.
Now, to the point - one of these champions is a hardcore scaling champ capable of 1v9ing, due to his kit - and it's not Darius. Darius at least is far stronger early, right? No, it's about even, and actually in favor of the Jax, due to lower CDs. That's just not right - Jax should be weaker early, or scale worse, or at the very least have far higher early game CDs.
Lastly, look at his winrate, which is just lol. I stopped playing him, because he is absolutely dogshit atm - he's a decent early game champion, that falls off a cliff. He is literally helpless without summoners.
As a sidenote, for some reason Jax needs 350 MS to go with his low CD Q, which makes zero sense for me.
Thefrostyviking2 votesIf i was Darius i´d play around my auto attacks and W i think, as you dont want to use Q or E first.
Jax could trade back with his own W and autos but Darius does more damage early with his passive i figure so Jax would end up losing that race ,especially as Darius has slightly more auto range giving him more opportunity to hit without taking anything back.
The longer you can keep that sort of poking and extended trades up of attacking while moving backwards without either side using E or Q the more Darius would end up winning-
The cooldown on his W is also not severe enough to cause any great problems and it even gains bonus range on use which makes it a very ideal tool against Jax.
And if Jax tries to go in with his Q and E to punish? Buffer his stun and whatnot to break his nose afterwards, he wont have a way out with his early Q CD and he cant fight without his E.
But well i suppose i have to admit that currently the matchup is much too skewed towards Jax, partly because jax himself is too strong early for how he scales but also because he has the scaling steroid off 
being so good for him.
'
But when jax doesnt have access to stuff making him go over the top and when he isnt as good early(conqueror or runes causing it maybe?) then Darius would have a easy win in the lanephase, i think my idea might work but its also a gamble so it could fail.
A final thought would be that its infact conqueror causing problems in this matchup, Darius isnt a bad 1v1 fighter with his passive but conqueror favors faster fights once activated, jax is better at those because all his abilities are instant and well his ult damage doesnt have terribly low synergy with conq.
Princess Bunhead3 votesOnly way that strat is viable, is having Grasp - else you get outtraded/go even. This kind of trade also goes both ways, as Jax can do the exact same thing. After 6, you're gonna start regretting having Grasp on Darius.
If Jax reads you right, or flat out decides to do the same to you, he wins the trade by basically ignoring your W and AAs with E, while getting burst on ya - and in worst case scenario, where he gets hit by a Q after E, and retreats, he goes even at worst. What's even better, following the E/Q trade, Jax has Q to either keep going, if he thinks he can win an extended trade or back off if he thinks he can't.
And who wins a fight if both are at half health? Jax, because he gets dmg off faster.
This is all leads back to my point, that Jax holds the cards and tools to beat Darius, and at worst, go even. As I stated, if both play 100% correct, Jax will win in the end, due to shorter CD trade power, that's stronger than Darius' burstwise.
Only way Darius wins, is if Jax fucks up, and eats a full (AA)-W-E-Q combo, without having done responded - there's no way he wins a trade after that, and can only retreat - but guess what? It all depends on him being bad, not Darius being good.
Now that's out of the way, out of lane, let's say Darius was the actually better player and went 2/0 in lane, and got a 50 cs lead - once Jax has SoS, he's back in the game. I watched Ravenborn alot, when trying to get better at Darius - he beat a jax hard in lane, to a point he had a full Deadmans on the Jax, (TF/Steraks/DP) and Jax (TF/SoS) actually won 1v1, because of that god forsaken shit item. He couldn't run, he couldn't do dmg to him (couldn't hit Jax with Q or AAs/W, kek) - it was URF vs non URF...
And to re-re-reiterate - concidering a competent jungler, it's no brainer who should win. All it takes is a one kill lead for Jax, and he can literally run Darius down - the other way around, Jax can always escape.
Shit could be solved by actually letting these cancer champions have actual CDs in the early game, give conq a time stack kinda like Atmas (conq stacks 1 every sec, for every AA/ability to up to 5 stacks), and removing that SoS passive.
The only situation you're right, where Darius wins, is a lvl 3+ iron slugfest at full health, where both hit all their abillities and AAs, then Darius should win - as 5 stack Darius IS able to put out alot of dmg... It's just not how real life goes. ;)
Thefrostyviking1 votes[{quoted}](name=Princess Bunhead,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAuEdaIB,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-29T10:33:52.260+0000)
Only way that strat is viable, is having Grasp - else you get outtraded/go even. This kind of trade also goes both ways, as Jax can do the exact same thing. After 6, you're gonna start regretting having Grasp on Darius.
How so? I mean they have about the same stats but Darius has slightly more of everything (at least at lvl 5 and below) which combined with his passive would let him win any basic attack trade i think just like that.
If Jax reads you right, or flat out decides to do the same to you, he wins the trade by basically ignoring your W and AAs with E, while getting burst on ya - and in worst case scenario, where he gets hit by a Q after E, and retreats, he goes even at worst. What's even better, following the E/Q trade, Jax has Q to either keep going, if he thinks he can win an extended trade or back off if he thinks he can't.
Nope that should bethe beautiful thing, the moment he uses E first he loses the trade as you will have your own up and ready to buffer his making him get nothing from it, and if he tries to trade autos? You win because you not only stand further into your minions due to more range, you also bleed him out.
What can he do? Other than denying your Q with his own he has no cards to play at all until after lane is done.
At which point i do find him OP.
Now that's out of the way, out of lane, let's say Darius was the actually better player and went 2/0 in lane, and got a 50 cs lead - once Jax has SoS, he's back in the game. I watched Ravenborn alot, when trying to get better at Darius - he beat a jax hard in lane, to a point he had a full Deadmans on the Jax, (TF/Steraks/DP) and Jax (TF/SoS) actually won 1v1, because of that god forsaken shit item. He couldn't run, he couldn't do dmg to him (couldn't hit Jax with Q or AAs/W, kek) - it was URF vs non URF...
Yeah SoS is much too strong and is much too good for some.
And to re-re-reiterate - concidering a competent jungler, it's no brainer who should win. All it takes is a one kill lead for Jax, and he can literally run Darius down - the other way around, Jax can always escape.
Not really, if jax commits to fight with his Q then he cant run, so baiting him in is very much doable.
If they are even slightly pushed towards Darius side and Darius grabs jax while he tries to run with Q then jax also dies pretty much, even i as a basic jungler have seen that happen x)
Only time i see jax being super safe when the lane is being a bit pushed towards his side, would be hard for Darius to really put any aggression down without exposing himself a lot to the enemy jungle which is undesirable.
Shit could be solved by actually letting these cancer champions have actual CDs in the early game, give conq a time stack kinda like Atmas (conq stacks 1 every sec, for every AA/ability to up to 5 stacks), and removing that SoS passive.
SoS should definitely not exist i think as it breaks champions like jax too much, and he could stand to have stats that are even lower than they are now, his ult and E should be his main survival tools rather than having those ontop normal base stats given how powerful they are.
However i dont think my idea should be that bad for winning lane, i cant really think of any logical reason why it wouldnt work as the theory seems sound.
Haze971 votesI do not know what you're smoking by Fiora loses hard to Darius till she has triforce + Scepter. Any other skirmisher deals with Darius better and I play all of the three champs you speak of (Jax, Fiora, and Darius).
Thefrostyviking1 votesFiora seems a bit weak now but a while back i read a grandmaster guide stating that if the fiora blocks Darius E or dodges it and blocks his W then he is almost certain to lose the fight but at the same time getting hit by those is extremely dangerous as Fiora cant kill him quickly enough early to win without the advantage gained from one of the above options.
I was reading up to get a bit familiar with at the time common toplane matchups.
strelizia jax4 voteshe does have a weak early game, you chose a shit champion against him and lost because he probably started autoing you first or procced conqueror faster, or he has better runes
mad cause bad
Verxint3 votesAnytime Riot says "weak early game" it's a joke.
Craft Zeppelin6 votesAnytime Riot says "weak early game" it's a joke.
Look no further at Twitch.
Done252 votes[{quoted}](name=Craft Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pAuEdaIB,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-03-28T03:23:32.604+0000)
Look no further at Twitch.
As a hyper carry marksman Twitch shouldn't physically be able to jungle on his own.
Craft Zeppelin1 votesAs a hyper carry marksman Twitch shouldn't physically be able to jungle on his own.
Another thing, I'm not defending Shaco. But twitch is a better Shaco that will 3 shot the entire enemy team if you think about it.
NemeBro2 votesJax was beating Darius in lane before conqueror ever existed, which is what made him much more meta. It's just a bad match-up.
Which isn't to say that Jax isn't out of line right now, but it isn't because he beats Darius in lane.
DarkTree11 votesthe hypothetical "weak early game" is the same "weak early game" that champions like riven or yasuo have; in super hard counter matchups they're weak until they get like two items and then they can click on anyone
Hayaishi21 votesWell darius is a very garbage champion at the moment. Too unreliable.
Jax can just outplay him too hard.
FSRER1 votesJax, before spear of shojin was the same as renekton. Early game champion (instead of ranting, remember than his main role is a duelist) which will start getting weaker in mid game and fall off late game while at the same time, forced to solo push toplane cause in a teamfight he can get bursted down by every fed midlaner (no exceptions) and can also instantly die by getting crowd controled, which leads him to get 1v2 fights and if at that 1v2 he gets crowd controler he dies. IF they nerf him again, jax will just be forgoten because even right now, there is no reason to not pick a yasuo or a riven toplane instead of jax. Oh, maybe another issue with him is that since bork was nerfed because of the adcs that abused it (a nerf which had no effect to em anyways) and he got forced to building the cancerous item known as hextech gunblade (I don't get why people don't talk about this overpowered item which on its active deals 200+ SCALING damage) forcing him to a more more lane bully style which made him the thing you describe, broken.
