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jax gets too much stuff ?

Knight SoIaire ··1 votes·310 views

I would like to start a serious diiscission about toxicity of his kit.

First point of my debate is that jax has no clear identity in his kit meaning that you cant realy counterbuild him, he scales with everything and can build to counter everything, in-game it means that you can only counterpick jax or outplay him, but anything that does not directly counter jax's mechanics (to either win by stats or dodge the stun/outplay him) has no chance of surviving the lane past 2 lvl's -if you build thornmail a jax with triforce and blade of the ruined king will indeed deal no physical damage to you but his magical dmg will shred you faster than thornmail shreds him -if you build frozen heart he can just poke you with q+w and disengage with e building more ad than atack speed to become more caster like -if you build mr then you are both stupid and dead (unless ap jax but he does not need to build ap to deal good magic dmg) -if you go full ad he has his stun and can build lots of ad too outtrade you with his ult -if you are ap jax can get wits end and gunblade resulting in him countering your damage while amping his sustain and damage to the max (and the free armor)

whatever you do jax always has a counter that he scales with, all he realy needs to become a tank is warmog while damage gives him tankyness (main reason for insane nerfs on riven, she was building glass cannon and easily survived entire team unloading on her )

Second point that i would like to mention is the fact that jax deals both damage types and can easily switch the dominant one to counter you, the main point of riot not releasing hybrid champions is the fact that you cant tank vs them, and jax is example of a hybrid champion (also his magic dmg has realy good base numbers meaning that full ad jax will still deal around 20% of his dmg as magical)

Third point i would like to mention is how easy to use and complete his kit is, he does not incorporate any mechanic beside pressing buttons and clicking, not even skillshots, while his kit supplies him in both tankyness, damage, hard cc, and mobility

i personaly thint that riot should remake part of his kit to make a space that is out of his comfort zone

3 Comments

67chrome3 votes

I would like to start a serious diiscission about toxicity of his kit.

You really shouldn't just throw around words like "toxicity".

Jax isn't toxic. He's annoying, he's strong, but he doesn't create an awful experience that removes interaction.

First point of my debate is that jax has no clear identity in his kit meaning that you cant realy counterbuild him

Jax's identity is he's the best duelist in the game. He's so strong, he was forced to use a lamp post rather than a real weapon, and he still beats the snot out of opponents.

Which is pretty irritating, seeing as top-lane is generally dominated by solid duelists that rely on 1v1 prowess to effect the game in their little island, as well as force 1v1s through split-pushing. At least it used to be, now that the game's more late game top lane is seeing more mega-tanks for team-fight potential.

1v1 potential is, in the vast majority of cases, counter-balanced with team-fight potential. Champions like Jax, Tryndamere, and Udyr that happen to be amazing duelists tend to be equally awful team-fighters. None of those are particularly choice picks in ARAM. Inversely - Ziggs, Sona, and Lux are not very solid in most 1v1 fights, but throw them into a 5v5 and they wreck faces.

Also - Jax isn't 100% the best duelist at all phases of the game, and while he generally has an edge, you can still beat him with a decent number of other top lane picks.

whatever you do jax always has a counter that he scales with,

Tanks and Bruisers almost always deal hybridized damage. Specifically being impossible to shut down with a singular defensive item like Thornmail or Banshee's Veil lets them stay relevant against an otherwise glass-cannon champion like Ashe or Ziggs when they build 1 defensive item.

Which makes a solid amount of sense in most cases, as your typical melee is actually heavily reliant on items for their durability. Jax isn't particularly unique in the regards of being a pain to counterbuild.

The area Jax stands out in is that fighter/asssassins tend to be easy to counterbuild but they're often very mobile, while fighter/tanks are impossible to counterbuild but rarely have anything outside of a MS boost for their mobility. He's like Darius with hops or Fiora without getting shut down by Ninja Tabi. Granted, both of those have a little stronger team-fight potential.

Third point i would like to mention is how easy to use and complete his kit is, he does not incorporate any mechanic beside pressing buttons and clicking, not even skillshots, while his kit supplies him in both tankyness, damage, hard cc, and mobility

It's very advantageous to have a wide range of kit mechanic demands within a game like LoL. If one champion's kit mechanics are to easy or hard, there's over 100 other champions you can choose.

Also - learning how to use a champion's kit is only ~5% of the difficulty in actually playing them. The vast majority of getting good with a champion is also more about learning when you can use everything in a kit optimally over how to use it in the first place.

Just because games like Donkey Kong or Packman are mechanically simple doesn't immediately mean the game is easy mode. Limited duration buffs like Jax's Counterstrike are just as easy to work around as skillshots, his stacking AS buff requires a fair deal of skill to utilize optimally, and skillshots tend to have double the range of point-click stuff and are capable of striking targets in fog of war, brush, and stealth.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

You really shouldn't just throw around words like "toxicity".

yeah but being able to chose what type of damage you deal is toxic (riot said that about hybrid champs by themselves), and believe me that there is no way of making yourself tanky vs jax without sacrificing every possible item slot for it

1v1 potential is, in the vast majority of cases, counter-balanced with team-fight potential.

id rephrase it to something like " if champions has strong single target damage he usualy lacks aoe damage" strong duelist is not a bad teamfighter, he just has diferent role in the teamfight duelist usualy dives and kills/zones out the enemy carry or peel for their carry if they dont feel like they can dive

Also - Jax isn't 100% the best duelist at all phases of the game, and while he generally has an edge, you can still beat him with a decent number of other top lane picks.

yes but 90% of his counterplay is in champion select, either you pick a champion that counters jaxs skills (immediate long dashes/jumps, single target caster, good sustain, not mana reliant) or he mops the floor with you in game his stun can be avoided only by immediate jump or flash, assuming that jax sux at activating it his leap has quite short cd meaning that he easily escapes ganks (place a pink close to your tower= never ganked)

Tanks and Bruisers almost always deal hybridized damage

tanks deal hybridized damage because they dont scale good with items, meaning that their damage does not go higher than riot planned
bruisers on the other hand have ap scalings to scale better with triforce, which still means that mb 10% of their dmg is magical,

this is where jax differs, if you build armor his magical damage will easily make up for it, if you build magic resist he will still deal his physical damage

i dont want his kit to be wrecked but to turn into some direction, right now jax is physical yet magical, tanky yet squishy, lane bully yet weak laner, assasin or maybe even a fighter

there is no speciality that jax posseses, he just does everything medicorely, which screws with the game in his fawour

redniwediS1 votes

Jax is rather difficult to deal with, but he is not unstoppable. Irelia, Tryndamere, and Volibear can beat down and keep him behind until late game. Irelia and Tryndamere both have fantastic sustain, and so even if they lose a trade they can end up ahead. Volibear can build pure tank and still have the damage to trade with Jax, although he is a little harder than the previous two I mentioned.

At the end of the day you're playing an XP race. Take champions with good early games and zone him as much as you possibly can, get a level advantage, and ward to avoid ganks.

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