Mordekaiser the "Juggernaut"

Malicious Metal··66 votes·4,487 views

What is a Juggernaut? So called Juggernauts are Riot's newest class of Fighters and the topic of many qq threads and complaints. But what are the defining traits of this type of fighter? Juggernauts are Bruisers, generally speaking. But unlike Jax, Irelia and similar contenders they all share low mobility. They're really durable, like tanks, but unlike the latter they don't bring much, if any utility to the team. They're beefcakes; Steamrollers; They're extremely lethal up close and personal but kiting and cc stops them in their onslaught. Many Juggernauts also share the trait Riot likes to call "Windows of Power".

Seems like a pretty decent explanation of these burly dudes.... Yet there's a black sheep, or rather a metal one; Mordekaiser!

I'll be taking a look at the other Juggernauts and share my opinion on why Morde doesn't fit the bill. So, let us begin!

Darius Darius

Darius' durability comes from his unique way to mitigate damage, his Q heal based on % missing health encourages him to stack health and makes him a real nuisance to deal with due to him effectively getting more out of building health. In order to make sure he doesn't fall off in the damage department he gains 200 Free AD from his passive Noxian might. ->Darius' damage isn't tied to his purchases and his Q allows him to get even more out of building tanky.

On the topic of mobility and utility; Darius has pretty high MS (340) and even has TWO slows and a displacement He even gains obscene MS due to him building a black cleaver pretty early, a Dead man's plate following soon after. This makes him practically negate the "Juggernaut Handicap"

Not only this but he's got one of the highest base stats with 2282 health, 98 Armor, 141 Ad. He's not only tanky by default but his build makes him get even beefier without sacrificing a lot of damage potential.

->Darius' window of power's Noxian might, making him extremely deadly under the right circumstances but he needs to first apply 5 stacks in order to truly get going

Garen Garen

Garen's health regen passive makes even Mundo jealous at times. He's a great skirmisher due to his healing properties and manages to quickly pop into fights and fall back to regen only to reenter the fray.

His W gives him bonus MR/Armor stacking up to 30, allowing him to mostly focus on health, synergising with his passive. Yet its active also reduces incoming damage for 30%, making him even more durable.

His mobility isn't shabby either, having 340 MS and a speed buff on his Q and an attached silence. Just like Darius the black cleaver's his usual core item, making his kiting problems a lot easier to overcome.

His base stats are nothing to laugh at with 2048 health with a whopping 616 at level 1(!) as well as 135 AD and 79 armor with the bonus 30 from his W.

->His window of power is you being the ACCURSED VILLAIN!!! Allowing him to deal tremendous amounts of true damage with his ultimate, ending you wiht a powerful yell of DEMACIA! Not only is his execute strong, his passive gives him %health true damage against the villain. making him THE anti carry and allowing him to build tanky and get to the villain in a breeze.

Skarner Skarner

Probably the second worst misfit in this group of Juggernauts. Like a tank he brings a lot of utility with a powerful slow and Stun on his fracture, a surpression on his Impale and general stickiness. His shield scales with a hefty amount of total health and even speeds him up, his base MS not even being low(335)! He's really hard to kite for a juggernaut and still deals a lot of damage due to his Spire boost and low CD sheen procs.

His base stats are really strong as well with 2131 base health, 136 AD and 94 armor.

->Skarner's window of power are his spires, A sanctum where he gains 150 MS, 150% AS and mana regen, making him lethal when triggering the zone's effect.

Finally we get to the black sheep of this group, the one and only HueKaiser, Numero Uno; Mordekaiser Mordekaiser

Morde's base stats are laughably weak, even more so compared to his Juggernaut brethren. His MS is the lowest in the game with 325. His Base health is abysmally low at 1765, coupled with his horrendous base armor(20) that maxes out at 84 makes him feel more like ALuminium Man than Iron man. His only good base stat is his base AD of 146 and that's only 5 higher than Darius'

He's got no CC unlike the other Juggernauts. His "mobility"'s a conditional FLAT 75 MS boost tied to an Ally unit being near.

His shield may scale with HP but it being filled relies on DAMAGE, making him want to build BOTH to get the best out of his passive unlike the other juggernauts who get rewarded for usually building only one or two stats (AD, health). Morde needs MS, Armor, MR, Health, AD(?), AP and AS, making him usually go for tankiness, leaving his other abilities outside his Q deal non-significant damage.

His main damage is tied to a ramping up ability that eats a lot of his power budget and he even loses an entire skill when alone.

Morde the "Perfect Juggernaut" Morde's premise is the epitome of a Juggernaut; No Mobility, No CC, Heavy Damage and extreme Durability. Yet he fails to achieve being the pinnacle of all Juggernauts.

This is mostly due to him being balanced on a gimmicky mechanic in bot lane but also due to him lacking significant "Windows of Power", Moments in which he'd gain extreme durability, damage and whatnot similar to Ryze's passive. Not only this but his base stats are severely lacking for a Juggernaut with LESS CC AND MOBILITY than his comrades.

But the biggest Problem has to be the fact that Morde isn't fun for ANYONE; It's no fun at all playing against him and even those who do play him don't really feel satisfied by playing the guy. His enjoyment relies in you hitting Q. That's it. It lacks satisfaction and counterplay for the enemy since Morde's really frustrating to play against while not really being all that enjoyable to play.

The goal of the Juggernaut update was to make those champions unique, to give them a niche, a home on the rift. Yet Morde's "Uniqueness" relies on him being forced(!) bot rather than interesting mechanics and aspects to his character. And yet there were many avenues that would make him unique: -Only AP Juggernaut -Slowest Champion due to lack of CC/Mobility and low base MS but one hell of a tough nut to crack; He could be the epitome of a Juggernaut; Trading all and any form of CC and mobility for unrivaled tankiness and damage amongst the juggernauts. -He could have been League's Sauron -"Your pain's my gain"-type of champion with his unique Shield mechanic.

It's just really disheartening seeing that the only champion with the perfect premise for a Juggernaut gets his potential wasted while also feeling way too unrewarding and "boring". He could be interesting, he could have had Windows of Power, he could have lived up to the Title of Iron Revenant.... Yet we stand here, dissatisfied how he turned out....

~M.M

http://orig14.deviantart.net/e3ae/f/2015/313/0/e/morde_isn_t_pleased_by_nimrohd-d9g33yv.jpg

62 Comments

ReQnosis29 votes

I'm still of the mindset that his Dragon Ghost and Free Exp should be completely removed, so the power could be put else where in his kit. To make him more of a juggernaut and less of a "win more" champion.

IE: Free exp and Dragon are just gimmicks that don't bring anything interesting/engaging to the game.

Madra9 votes

Free XP is one of the least elegant, shoe-horned approaches to balancing a champion I've ever seen. It's a horrible concept. I think if they want Morde to keep the dragon mechanic, he should at least have to ult the dragon.

The thing about Morde is that he can buy Rylai's where the other juggernauts do not. That gives him a nice AoE slow; it just gates it to outside the laning phase. He's also the only juggernaut that is designed to go into the duo lane. I'm just not sure if you can really stack him full of slows and/or CC.

ReQnosis3 votes

Indeed +1

~

On a bit more of a comical note: *Morde's aesthetic + build path (rylas ice) + undead dragon pet = Arthus "clone" (World of Warcraft)

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95vcgv-pK_4

Mordepool4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Shadow Facts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p7gqPWEq,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T23:02:05.214+0000)

Indeed +1

~

On a bit more of a comical note: *Morde's aesthetic + build path (rylas ice) + undead dragon pet = Arthus "clone" (World of Warcraft)

Reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95vcgv-pK_4

They tried to rename him Lord of Death Idk why they would take a original character and warp him into a arthas clone

Mordepool2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Shadow Facts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p7gqPWEq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-09T18:03:24.224+0000)

I'm still of the mindset that his Dragon Ghost and Free Exp should be completely removed, so the power could be put else where in his kit. To make him more of a juggernaut and less of a "win more" champion.

IE: Free exp and Dragon are just gimmicks that don't bring anything interesting/engaging to the game.

They just gave Morde utility with the new Winions update its shitty utility. But I doubt they will remove the xp now. Mordes fucked

Adrian Umbra7 votes

Morde mostly suffered from a combination of factors, mostly the "cannot be healthy in a solo lane" aspect. Because of that, his W had basically its entire power budget eaten by forcing him botlane (yes, it's usable in solo lane, but it's also still quite weak there), his ult had a pretty significant segment of its power taken up by the Dragon ghost (losing SIGNIFICANT range and ghost power), and his passive shield generation, one of his most unique aspects, was noticeably toned down.

Riot needs to give his W its AoE damage back, emphasizing its use in a duo lane with extra damage, but not punishing players for going into a solo lane. The heal can go in return, it generally feels very lackluster and takes up a massive amount of power in the ability. Base damage for his E needs to go up, as the ability feels like a tickle rather than a significant blast. His base stats are really quite lackluster and feel like they're balanced around him NOT being a wall of iron early on because that would take some fun away from the ADCs that are his new favored opponents.

For more significant changes, Riot could try making his E's damage scale depending on how far away from his target he is. Make his long ranged options less powerful, but his short range damage absolutely absurd. He could have his Q deal less burst, but amplify the damage he's dealing with his other abilities to give him that "ramp up damage" feel. His W could become more and more powerful as its duration goes on, give him that "I HAVE YOU NOW, MY PRETTY" style where staying near to Morde becomes very hazardous to your health very quickly.

AhhShucks4 votes

I found riots choices on who is/is not a juggernaut to be interesting. Fairly high damage/low mobility tanky people fits a lot of characters who got absolutely no work on the "juggernaut patch". Contrasted to this upcoming marksman patch were every single marksman is getting at least some level of looking at.

Low mobility damaging tanky guys include - The above 4 "Juggernauts" Rumble Mundo Sion Cho'Gath Olaf Shyvanna Nasus Volibear

It's kind of frustrating how much smaller scope the "juggernaut" update was VS this upcoming marksman one. Especially given how many of the above champions are struggling right now.

BoxOfDOG1 votes

Rumble is not tanky. He builds like, half a resistance item. I hate it when people act like a champion that builds Liandry's, Abyssal, Rylai's, Zhonya's, Void Staff and Sorc boots is a tank..

AhhShucks2 votes

Those are all AP/health or AP resistance items. He's harder to kill than your average squishy, immobile, and deals damage at close range. Sounds like a Juggernaut to me.

BoxOfDOG1 votes

That's not what a juggernaut is -_-

Garen is a juggernaut and he builds one damage item and full tank from there. Skarner builds 1 or 2 damage items then full tank. Darius builds 1, 2 or 3 damage items then full tank.

Rumble builds 6 damage items with some resistances and health tacked on. He's a fighter, not a juggernaut/tank.. Jesus..

AhhShucks1 votes

That's funny, cause that's how morde was built too. They are actually pretty functionally similar

BoxOfDOG2 votes

Functionally similar? You're joking right?

Mordekaiser: Built to be a three-hit stacking burst champion in the bottom lane, abusing his ridiculous damage and passive shield to destroy his opponents. His ult revives enemies from the dead, and can even bring a dragon back to fight for him from a distance. All while being insanely easy to pick up.

Rumble: Made to punish the player for not knowing how to play him. Uses his low cooldowns to abuse people from range, and go in once his heat is high (his window of power). But you're punished if you use too many abilities, because you get silenced and your damage transfers to your autos. Instead of nuking, his main job is to turn the tide of teamfights with cleverly placed ultimates, and melting people with his Q + Zhonya.

Functionally they're opposite. Thematically they're entirely different. Personality they'd might as well be in different universes. Mordekaiser shouldn't have even been part of the "Juggernaut update" because that's not what he is. Mordekaiser is a nuke, not a walking tank that soaks up damage and hits back like a wet noodle.

ChessPwn9951 votes

The space fits a lot of things. There's Bruisers, Fighters, Juggernauts, Tanks, and probably another category or two. So like, volibear, Sion, are "tank" and thus not part of Juggernauts. Also Shyvana and Olaf are Juggernauts that already were "in a good spot" where both of them have defense boosters and windows of insane damage.

AhhShucks2 votes

Riot themselves said Sion is a Juggernaut. Tanks are people like Amumu, Shen, or Sejuani. They are usually both reasonably mobile and have repeatable hard CC. Volibear doesn't fit that picture. He's about as mobile as Garen and most of his abilities are about doing damage. He fits the Juggernaut bill much better than the tank one.

Stars Shaper4 votes

The thing I'm not liking is the "we are still gathering infos and stuff" attitude of Riot which only gives these 2 lines in threads not talking about Mordekaiser while leaving threads full of feedback in the dust.

I really wish we can get some real discussion here, we are not making the Boards explode of Morde threads and keeping the discussion on one. But again.. we already told everything that we fee is wrong. Thanks to M.M. for keeping this up and lets hope to have more consistent "counter-feedback" from reds.

KONO RUBICK DA3 votes

Meddler said that mordekaiser's identity is a ramp up damage guy. i think CertainlyT managed to give him that, but the rework didn't changed morde to a juggernaut that's what i'm saying from the begining of the juggernaut patch.

Malicious Metal14 votes

Ramp up damage is actually a more healthy direction for Morde, seeing that his burst and poke pattern was really unfun to deal with.

They failed at making him a true Juggernaut, which is so aggravating.

Penns2 votes

I think they "failed at making him a true juggernaut" because he isnt a juggernaut lel.

Burnt Iron King10 votes

Riot classified him as a Juggernaut -_- He is a Juggernaut, albeit a poor example of one

Penns1 votes

Really? Where? Because Mundu is like the definition of juggernaut but I dont think he is "classified" as one..

Burnt Iron King6 votes

He is one according to riot. Juggernauts; Morde Darius Garen Skarner Mundo Olaf Shyvana

The Yetii Rider10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shroom of Dooom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p7gqPWEq,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T17:25:31.442+0000)

He is one according to riot. Juggernauts; Morde Darius Garen Skarner Mundo Olaf Shyvana

Nasus is a juggernaut as well. Riot states he's the best example because he has serious power but is very vulnerable to being kited. I agree here, and I feel like teams should be saying the same thing when they kill other juggernauts as they do when they kill Nasus: Raid boss down.

Chespin20132 votes

I think champs like Udyr and Volibear could also count as juggernauts since their kits feel like what a juggernaut is

Kaeblen2 votes

Udyr is far too mobile (stacking MS boosts alone) to be a juggernaut, but Voli probably qualifies.

Vhalthoria5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shroom of Dooom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p7gqPWEq,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T17:16:41.749+0000)

Riot classified him as a Juggernaut -_- He is a Juggernaut, albeit a poor example of one

Riot doesn't even know what they are doing anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if next they decide to make Urgot a support.

BoxOfDOG1 votes

He shouldn't have been part of the Juggernaut update, just like Fiora wasn't.

The only thing he fits the bill for being a juggernaut is low mobility, but does that make Galio, Sona, Vel'koz, Syndra a juggernaut?

JedenVojak4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p7gqPWEq,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T17:05:33.303+0000)

Ramp up damage is actually a more healthy direction for Morde, seeing that his burst and poke pattern was really unfun to deal with.

They failed at making him a true Juggernaut, which is so aggravating.

The problem is, the burst + poke patter was the only way he was able to reliably function on his own, due to his particular set of strengths and weaknesses; in particular, the lack of any mobility or CC means that his windows of attack are very short - in order to capitalize on these he has to be very bursty and do a lot of damage in a short window of control. The way CertainlyT seems to have decided to abet this is to remove all of Mordekaisers burst and make him entirely dependant on the presence of other champions to do damage. This can make him less frustrating to fight but takes any possibility for joy from the champion as he has 0 agency whatsoever - either he has someone else around to hold his target for him, or his target lets him get a 3rd Q off... he has no control over his own damage.

For Mordekaiser to work as a ramping damage threat, he needs to have innate CC in his kit - and they're not willing to give him this because "it would compromise his identity," though I feel that making him a co-dependant champion compromises his identity far more than it would have to give him a disable.

Jacknife1 votes

Couldn't have summed it up better myself. The way I see it, all champions can be thrown into one or a mixture of 4 catagories: Damage, Tankiness, Utility(movement, sustain, etc), Crowd Control. All champions excel in at least one of these catagories, while grabbing a smaller amount from others. It's with these mixtures that champion kits can be considered strong/viable or not.

A prime example of what I mean is Olaf back in... I think season 4, when he was considered trash. The thing about his kit back then was it actually had a lot of power attached to it, very similarly to what it is now, but unless you can throw axes like a god, you couldn't really cling to anyone long enough to do your job. Riot realized this, and decided to give him a window of power, aka the huge MS boost when he activates ult, so when he's in this seemingly unstoppable state its something to be feared. His winrate slowly grew after that, and even pros started to recognize his power, seeing pro play for parts of season 4 and 5. It was that gift of Mobility that pushed him over the edge into viability, not any increases in his already strong damage.

Mordekaiser , on the other hand, is gimped, and will continue to be gimped as long as he is barred from two of the four catagories. It leaves him with only 2 catagories to work with, Damage and Tankiness. In order to find any niche in this game, he has to "main" one of those catagories. Thing is, the way he is set up as a character dooms him from being healthy and viable in either of those catagories.

Do you want to be tanky, with ignorable damage, no mobility to cling, and no CC? http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zRhOaLYIw9w/U2LMbJPL-tI/AAAAAAAANRw/2DpxuNKn6qI/s1600/Screenshot-86.jpg Mordekaiser : 'YOU SHALL NOT PA-oh, okay nevermind. I'll just be over here then..."

Do you want to be a great damage dealer, with some tankiness, but again no mobility or CC? Then you get the Mordekaiser we have now, who is only a threat when he can delete you (it's made even worse since he's been forced into bot lane, where any high defensive stats means he can shrug off poke early on, and sadly had to have been nerfed).

I respect Riot for wanting to (kind of) follow what the fanbase wanted, but they're not gonna get a balance-able champion by needlessly restricting themselves.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Ramp up damage would mean a minor damage increase the more skills he uses to a point where staying in melee of him just brings you down, not a WTF ONESHOT AA.

Need Gold 4 Tent4 votes

he doesn't really have good attack speed unless itemized for which is bad on him anyways. Thus, for him to get off a 3rd Q means he needs to be in melee range in combat for a while, which counts as ramp up i guess.

Stars Shaper1 votes

But you can't bind all his damage to a single skill because it will surely end into a oneshotting mechanic. What I was saying is that Mordekaiser shouldn't have spikes of damage but constant damage that becomes higher and higher.

Kaeblen1 votes

can you provide a link for this? when did ye say it?

Auryiel3 votes

IMO his Q should have a very short CD (like 4 seconds at rank 1 and 2 seconds at rank 5) and deal damage in an AoE around its target (nothing as big as the AoE on his Q previously). His Q could apply a debuff to targets hit that increases either the damage taken from Morde or the damage taken from his Q. It can't be a buff that stacks on Morde because then he can just stack the damage on minions and monsters and deal insane dps in a fight. That way you can have threat that ramps up without having insane burst.

Also change his scalings to make a Rylai's/Liandry's build viable (prob with items like Abyssal and Deadman's Plate too, with the possibility of building Luden's for the MS). Between a short CD AoE Q, his W and E he'd have some form of constant utility through Rylai's like he does now.

Anyway, that's just a random idea, but I feel like his current Q is really awful.

Morde should be the opposite of the other juggernauts : build damage and get tankyness, instead of build tanky and get damage.

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Gotta remember, M.M, they actually nerfed his W movement speed boost recently. It gives up to 75 Movement speed now, not flat. The boost is at 75 the further you and your ally are from each other, and gets weaker the closer you are.

Malicious Metal5 votes

The unseen nerf is the deadliest...

Dalthine3 votes

Hey MM, I've seen several of your discussions around the boards, and while I was never a Morde main I've had other champs I love get completely changed from reworks, so I can certainly sympathize.

That said, I love to theorycraft, and your talk of ramping damage stuck an idea in my head of how Morde could be turned in that direction. I don't expect it to be anything that Riot would pick up and run with, but I'm still curious to hear your own thoughts on it, however brief they might be, to see how close I am to the mark. I'm more looking to gauge my own progress and ability to match expectation than anything, to be honest.

Base Stats: Increased: Armor, Maximum HP

Passive: Iron Man

Unchanged

Q: Purveyor of Pestilence

Active: For 5 seconds, Mordekaiser surrounds himself with a field that absorbs nearby scraps of metal from his enemies. Enemies caught in the field are dealt 25/35/45/55/65 + 10% AP magic damage per second and have their Armor/MR reduced by 6/7/8/9/10. This effect stacks up to 5 times, and each time it reduces an enemy champion's Armor/MR it grants Mordekaiser one stack of Metal (max 10 stacks). Stacks of Metal disappear after 4 seconds without being refreshed.

Passive: Mace of Horror - For each stack of Metal, Mordekaiser's basic attacks deal an additional 10/12/14/16/18 + 3% AP magic damage and refresh his current count of Metal stacks.

W: Harvester of Sorrow

Experience Points Passive removed.

Active: For 5 seconds, Mordekaiser surrounds himself with a field that projects anguish onto nearby enemies. Enemies caught in the field are dealt 20/40/60/80/100 + 20% AP magic damage per second. Each time an enemy champion is damaged by this ability, it grants Mordekaiser one stack of Pain (max 10 stacks). Stacks of Pain disappear after 4 seconds without being refreshed.

Passive: Mace of Despair - For each stack of Pain, Mordekaiser's basic attacks heal him for 6/7/8/9/10 + 2% AP and refresh his current count of Pain stacks.

E: Siphon of Destruction

Unchanged

R: Children of the Grave

Dragon Passive removed.

Active: Unchanged except: Mordekaiser gains 75 bonus movement speed when advancing towards the cursed enemy.

My Own Thoughts

My goal was to turn him into something that loves sustained combat and being able to wade into the middle of a fight and stay there. His abilities are designed so that they slowly but steadily weaken his enemies while at the same time strengthen himself, as long as he is able to stay close to them to keep his stacks up. He would initially be very weak when jumped on, and would rely on the ramping sustain from Mace of Despair combined with his Iron Man shield to lure his enemies into staying close, and then once the enemy realizes they're going to lose, he uses his ultimate to run them down for the kill.

He remains weak to poke and kiting, as usual, and would still rely on his team to help him do well against a knowledgeable enemy. However, he still gains some potential to duel when his ult is up, using the extra move speed to run down an enemy as long as they're cursed. His teamfight potential is also boosted, making him similar to Darius in that he needs to be shut down before he ignites, but requires the enemy stay close to him without CC of his own, requiring him to be willing to go straight to the enemy. If allowed to reach his pinnacle of power, however, he will become a true juggernaut, smashing his enemies with his empowered mace and sustaining himself with their despair.

Counterplay comes in the ability to disengage from him, and remain away from him long enough for his Mace stacks to decay (and they do not last very long). An enemy that tries to face Mordekaiser in sustained face-to-face combat is destined to fail, much as should be expected of any juggernaut, but disengaging from him is much more effective than with any others considering it causes his power to drop off. Playing as Mordekaiser will boil down to knowing when you can use your ultimate to get a kill, as well as being smart with the use of E both to farm and to build up your shield. By contrast, his Q and W will be amazing at waveclear, but using them in such a way will leave him with no stacks and no way to build them, making him incredibly vulnerable. In teamfights, Morde will have to decide carefully who to use his ult on, determining whether he wants to use it up front on an enemy frontliner to make sure he can build up his power, or if he wants to try and charge through the enemy peel to get to the backline.

My biggest concern with this is that it doesn't feel like Morde will present much more than a stat check in lanes. It doesn't leave a ton of room for him to outplay others, except with clever baits, while leaving room for him to be outplayed. I'm not so sure this is very different from the current Morde, however. He's also going to feel very different from the original (and current) Morde in terms of playstyle, with almost no burst and enjoying sustained combat rather than shying from it.

Stars Shaper1 votes

That's some good stuff.

Lord Boltrix3 votes

Still fighting our fight Malicious?

I'd make another post supporting you, but I'm actually working on a word document for a proposal on how to update Mordekaiser without having to wait five years for a fix, considering it took them five years to put out a rework for Mordekaiser and this is what we got.

That 17-page Shaco rework proposal that popped up on the boards really pumped me up to try to put out some love for my own Main.

Totalis2 votes

I'm honestly starting to feel bad for MM at this point. He's trying so hard to get mord into a good place and it's just. not. happening.

FistOfSharkiesha2 votes

Honestly the juggernaut concept and the non-marksman bot lane carry concepts are both cool in themselves, but trying to make the first non-marksman ADC also be a juggernaut was a mistake. All they did was shoehorn a monstrous base AD into a support-reliant kit with bulk comparable to a squishy marksman.

I'm really interested in a non-marksman bot lane but with this failure and the upcoming ADC rework there's no chance for that being successful any time soon.

Stars Shaper1 votes

It wouldn't have been that bad if they didn't force so many things in his kit. The righteous way of breaking this meta would have been making Morde kit working in each lane but shine in duo instead of making him handicapped without having a comrade and a dragon at a spit distance.

AvatarRoku222 votes

MM.. my heart goes out to you. As a morde main (pre-rework) i feel your pain. Keep the dream alive. raises mace in honor of MM

I think the fact that they tried to shoehorn a non-marksman into a duo lane just made the whole situation even worse..... im not even gonna get started on skarners rework. i could write a whole dissertation on why hes pretty much garbage outside of the crystal spires

I'm sure people a riot have seen your posts. At this point it comes down to this: Is riot capable of admitting they royally fked up and will they re-rework him to rectify their mistakes. Personally i dont think so... they have a track record of changing things that negatively impact the game and basically just saying "this is what it is now, deal with it". This isnt just a tweak-the-numbers type issue; Its a big screw up unlike any other and thus much less likely that riot will own up to it and change it.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Mordekaiser's Window of Power is his second champion, giving him AP and Health and giving the ghost AD.

Putting 100 bonus AD on a champion that has lots of AS like Jinx or Ashe is insane, and putting it on the dragon with its huge AOE autos is just ridiculous.

Important to note is the dragon has immunity to Baron's Gaze, a debuff that halves physical and magic damage targets deal to Baron Nashor that makes taking him a slow process with plenty of time for the enemy team to respond.

This is a significant drain on Mordekaiser's power budget but it will not be removed and likely cannot be nerfed without making it useless.

Malicious Metal3 votes

They netfed the AD from 100 to 50 with his rework actually.

Felvyne1 votes

The problem is... even if they archieve the Mordekaiser that is a raidboss without mobility and CC... Why have you to fight him? Just avoid him, poke from afar, kite... He won't reach you easily (basic premise on any juggernaut theorically) and you just don't want to go towards him. That means that he becomes somehow the bodyguard of the ADC because everybody wants to reach him. And that doesn't fullfil the fantasy of lord-of-everything-submit-to-my-will, honestly.

I just wonder if the true Mordekaiser is archivable.

Kaeblen8 votes

Pre-rework Morde achieved almost all of the goals for a juggernaut. As you say, he was extremely easy to avoid fighting against, and his escape potential when losing was abysmal. But he could usually get into fights just by using a minion wave to come up to a turret (enemy HAS to engage, or lose turret), or by working with his team for engage potential (wasn't teamwork a big goal at some point?) He never felt like a "bodyguard" for two reasons:

  1. he lacks any kind of cc, so actually peeling with him is very difficult.
  2. He deals more damage than the adc (aoe damage just below adc's single target damage)(prior to S6). Morde would come in right behind his team's solid engage, charge up his shield and scatter the enemy. the adc would clean house on anyone who got out of Morde's range. It's definitely a partnership, but the subservient situation you describe never occurred with old Morde. The new Morde is subservient to his sup... so, that would be a failure as well.
Sightless661 votes

If we're calling Skarner's spires a window of power, then I'm calling the dragon ghost a window of power. It's stronger and I actually get to use it more often than I get to actually fight in the idiot-proof spires. (I don't think the dragon is a great window of power, this is just me bitching about Skarner).

I'm just saying, don't start giving Skarner credit he doesn't deserve. There's a reason his pickrate is falling daily, and having a gimmick even less interesting than Morde's is the start of the problem.

Good arguments for Darius and Garen though. Interesting perspective on it.

Oerba No Naja1 votes

1 day , riot will hear you , ( i hope )

DragonShea1 votes

Let me tell you something about Morde. He was billed as a juggernaut when In actual fact he is a melee ADC. A FUCKING. MELEE. ADC. FOR BOT! What in the 7 fucks was riot thinking about this when they reworked him and I still got a lot of dislike for Certainly T for messing morde up. His stats are stipped away for that he needs to get item 3078, HIs Q has too much power on the third hit. his W is meant for two and doesn't deal any AoE until the effect ends. E and R are still good but needs some tweaking.

I Wrote a guide about how to improve morde(Link: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UkqwHBEx-suggestions-to-fixing-mordekaiser) I think that most of riot don't understand him. It's one of those time when dev's just don't understand their creations. and when we offered feedback they stuck to their guns when it was stupid to do so and look at the result. An even more broken morde. He is frail as fuck right now. His shield is crap, his base stats are bad and Itemization for him is messed up.

Morde is meant to be a top/middle Laner that deals good magic damage overall and something that is weak as hell.

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