3 cdr quints cost about the same as a 6300 ip champion

Rustling Bush··118 votes·4,967 views

why?

83 Comments

Jack º8 votes

because, when you don't have champions to buy, you buy them <3 skins are not the only thing you can get with rp btw

EDIT: btw, not like I personally agree with this, but just saying what rito says :P

Rustling Bush25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Entropy Aether,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-22T15:28:36.395+0000)

because, when you don't have champions to buy, you buy them <3 skins are not the only thing you can get with rp btw

EDIT: btw, not like I personally agree with this, but just saying what rito says :P

it takes like 30 games just to get enough for one of the newer champions, slugging through 30 games just to get 3 quints is pushing it.

Dreadlocks27 votes

I use to think this too, until after i had everything i could ever wanted and realized i hardly use 75% of the champs i got.

BoxOfDOG3 votes

{quoted}

I use to think this too, until after i had everything i could ever wanted and realized i hardly use 75% of the champs i got.

True that. I've played just about every champion, and to be honest I can't think of one player that I know that actively plays and enjoys more than 5 of the champions they own.

Unless you're an lcs player, there's no reason for your champion pool to be bigger than 4 or 5 champs. (Yes, I know you need to know every role, but just because I CAN play Soraka doesn't mean I want to or am proficient at it.)

Dreadlocks1 votes

Id say theirs about 10-15 champs that I play regularly. At least looking at my champion mastery...

BoxOfDOG2 votes

{quoted}

Id say theirs about 10-15 champs that I play regularly. At least looking at my champion mastery...

Like I said, in ranked that's completely unnecessary.

Having more options is nice and everything, but being really good at just a few champs is worth a lot more than being pretty okay at a lot of them.

EROTIC RAID BOSS1 votes

But it's more fun to have more champions

kroIya4 votes

Being mostly a normal player, I play whatever I feel out of pretty much my entire purchased champ pool (some more, some less, but still), and that kind of translates even into rankeds (I am THAT guy that went urgot top).

P.S. new mastery system makes players like me sad, no lvl5 yet XD

BoxOfDOG1 votes

{quoted}

Being mostly a normal player, I play whatever I feel out of pretty much my entire purchased champ pool (some more, some less, but still), and that kind of translates even into rankeds (I am THAT guy that went urgot top).

P.S. new mastery system makes players like me sad, no lvl5 yet XD

I know that feel. I play a LOT of Jayce and Shen (way, way wayyy more Shen recently) so of course I have level 5 on them, but other than that I'm all over the place. The only champion I haven't played at all (other gamemodes, pbe or otherwise) since the release of champion mastery is Tryndamere.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

That's because you don't want your lane decided by luck :P

Magearna1 votes

What did you say about my wife? Soraka

Jack º6 votes

well quints, are MAJOR boost, and if everyone was to get them easy, then its like, playing the game, you get no rewards, and have nothing to go to, no goals but, getting your elo higher forever, and that is repetitive, and the game would get boring faster. You dont have to agree, just saying what I think

Vellich0r5 votes

If you get them easy, you might actually be able to compete at a decent level without being down 600 gold in stats just because you haven't grinded 30 games.

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Doesn't that logic conflict w/ the whole "lol isn't pay to win" thing? Now IMO flat CDR quints are optimal on so few champions they're a huge luxury and not something you need to win, but even cheap quints are 1k. So even after they've down graded the cost of basic ad and basic ap rune pages for lvl 30, if you want to play both ad and ap lane champ AND want an ADC page you have to spend 6300 on a new page and 3150 on AS quints to make an ADC page also. If you were only playing 1 game a day (assuming you get fwotd and 50 LP every game) you'd have like 200 IP average and it would take 50 days to earn the IP just to have ADC and basic lane pages available.

Should people be required to spend 2 months almost grinding games in order to meet the ability to cover all the roles in ranked?

Jack º1 votes

umm, if your playing the game for fun, and not to win, then quints and stuff don't matter... That is the point I am trying to get across, but I just suck at explaining everything

T RexHasTinyArms1 votes

Yeah that definitely makes sense. Although I think it also depends on how you derive enjoyment from the game. I almost solely play ranked bc I enjoy the competitive atmosphere. If I beat someone I want to know I was getting their best and not just their practice time or them messing around with champs they aren't good with but are fun to play.

If I'm going to play mostly ranked I don't want to hurt my team's chance to win so I'd rather not play with a handicap. Part of why I don't mundo jungle this season is that the camps are harder than past seasons so he really wants spell vamp quints to help with his first clear or two.

Aezanthya2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Entropy Aether,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-22T15:37:52.842+0000)

well quints, are MAJOR boost, and if everyone was to get them easy, then its like, playing the game, you get no rewards, and have nothing to go to, no goals but, getting your elo higher forever, and that is repetitive, and the game would get boring faster. You dont have to agree, just saying what I think

Nobody plays lol because they think it's so fun and cool to farm IP for runes/stuff that is required to play at the same level (skill ignored) as your opponent.

KnivingDude6 votes

How about the "Time Dead" Runes?

Best buy of the century.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Karthus hue hue hue

Axis the Dragon3 votes

Too bad his passive doesn't reduce his death timer anymore :(

Ralanr3 votes

But...Sion's does...wtf?

Matezoide6 votes

Because the rune system is ridiculously outdated.

Jbels5 votes

I can see 3 quints being like that. But why are 9 Hybrid Penetration Marks 7300? That's almost as much as a new champ on release!

Edit: ...I guess that is too different stats in one...

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

It doesn't change the fact it seems like there is no reasoning behind the prices. Why are some like 200 when others are 800? It really does not make any sense to me but hey they know more than we do about these things (when all rioters get everything unlocked automatically iirc).

Sinlaire1 votes

some runes provide the same bonus as others but with lower stats. when you hover over the rune in the top right it will indicate either Primary or Secondary. Secondary means there's another rune somewhere that has those stats in a higher number.

the secondaries are cheaper, but with lower stats. also runes with greater values such as Dual Pen mark that gives ~65% of the value of both armor and magic pen in one, CDR runes and such that have high player value as well. lots of things effect rune value.

Absolute0Chaos1 votes

It's 2 different stats, but at something like 70% the value of each than if you would get them separately.

Dextix LT5 votes

Because Riot, "Doesnt want players to grind".

ThePartyLeader4 votes

The game isn't made to have every champion and every rune. Most high level players I have listened to suggest you only play one in each role unless they are contested picks. So if it's 30 games to purchase a champion and 30 games to get the runes and you need 5 champions you only need to play 300 games (depending on fwotd and win loss ratio). I may be the odd one out but I feel the game has a pretty small investment compared to an mmo for example.

5512023 votes

They need to rework the runes! Ex. of runes that dont worth it at all: 9 Tier 3 CDR Marks give -1.8% CDR (for the 9) for 3600 IP... What kind of retard would buy this...

Rayden7691 votes

{quoted}

They need to rework the runes! Ex. of runes that dont worth it at all: 9 Tier 3 CDR Marks give -1.8% CDR (for the 9) for 3600 IP... What kind of retard would buy this...

Someone that's not bright enough to NOT put CDR runes in their marks.

Aerilus2 votes

Yeah well they shouldn't exist in the first place, there is no point in lots of them even in extremely specialized builds. I'm not talking about those CDR specifically but a lot of the Tier 3 runes that are not just inferior, but almost useless.

I think I remember one of the tier 3 runes (all 9 total) giving you something like 60 Max hp... what the fuck.

This should have been fixed years ago, and for that matter, Tier 1 runes seriously should not exist, just start Tier 1 with Tier 2 stats and Tier 2 at level 20... Tier 1 is honestly pointless unless you are going seriously competitive at low level, and even then the bonus is almost always insignificant.

Goodnight Nunu2 votes

Some goes with MS quints.

Absolute0Chaos2 votes

It's to encourage you to buy champs with RP, so you can have both, instead of being forced to choose. GG wallet.

Biffolo2 votes

To be fair, you probably shouldn't be using cdr quints anyways :P

layrit1 votes

I think Riot is trying to turn you off the CDR quints. I mean what champion would actually use CDR quints?

Rustling Bush12 votes

{quoted}

I think Riot is trying to turn you off the CDR quints. I mean what champion would actually use CDR quints?

resourceless junglers like shyvanna.

Slamurai Jack4 votes

That's what CDR/lvl glyphs are for. Any choice other than AS quints on Shyvana is wrong.

Ralanr4 votes

You mean players shouldn't try and experiment?

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

You mean players shouldn't try and experiment?

They should. I've done it myself. AS quints are the optimal quints on Shyvana, and it isn't even close. AS quints in general are just extremely good if your champion can use them. If you want 40% CDR on Shyvana like I do, just run 5% in masteries, 9 cdr/lvl glyphs, and build black cleaver.

YumaS2Astral2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T01:20:00.889+0000)

They should. I've done it myself. AS quints are the optimal quints on Shyvana, and it isn't even close. AS quints in general are just extremely good if your champion can use them. If you want 40% CDR on Shyvana like I do, just run 5% in masteries, 9 cdr/lvl glyphs, and build black cleaver.

I don't think that Shyvana needs cooldown reduction. Her ult doesn't have a cooldown and is only avaliable everytime she has 100 fury. Her Q can have its cooldown reduced by auto-attacking. Her W effectively has a cooldown of 7 seconds, 5 if you basic attack 2 times. And her E has a fairly low cooldown at max level.

Due to all this, I think that investing on CDR on Shyvana is a waste, because she hardly has issues with it and most of her cooldowns can be reduced by auto-attacking. Because of this, you want attack speed more than cooldown reduction.

Shyvana is one of the very few champions that doesn't benefit very much from building cooldown reduction. It is still useful for her basic abilities' cooldowns, but as I explained, she can still reduce them with basic attacks.

Slamurai Jack3 votes

Shyvana's W lasts up to 7 seconds if you auto 4 times and 40% CDR will make the W cd only 7.2 seconds. Shyvana's E lasts 5 seconds and has a 4.8 second CD with 40% CDR. Her Q has a 3 second CD at 40% CDR and goes down by .5 seconds with every auto.

You've got it backwards mate. Shyvana's CD's all scaling with auto attacks doesn't make CDR less valuable on her, it makes it more valuable, and exponentially so. A Shyvana with no CDR has a CD of 12 seconds on her W and it lasts up to 7 seconds, meaning she has a minimum of 5 seconds of downtime on her W if she has no CDR. A Shyvana with 40% CDR has a CD of 7.2 seconds on her W and it still lasts up to 7 seconds, leaving an effective downtime of .2 seconds. Going from 5 seconds of downtime to .2 seconds is an effective 96% CD reduction on your most important ability. CDR isn't less valuable on Shyv, it's more valuable.

YumaS2Astral1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T07:39:31.344+0000)

Shyvana's W lasts up to 7 seconds if you auto 4 times and 40% CDR will make the W cd only 7.2 seconds. Shyvana's E lasts 5 seconds and has a 4.8 second CD with 40% CDR. Her Q has a 3 second CD at 40% CDR and goes down by .5 seconds with every auto.

You've got it backwards mate. Shyvana's CD's all scaling with auto attacks doesn't make CDR less valuable on her, it makes it more valuable, and exponentially so. A Shyvana with no CDR has a CD of 12 seconds on her W and it lasts up to 7 seconds, meaning she has a minimum of 5 seconds of downtime on her W if she has no CDR. A Shyvana with 40% CDR has a CD of 7.2 seconds on her W and it still lasts up to 7 seconds, leaving an effective downtime of .2 seconds. Going from 5 seconds of downtime to .2 seconds is an effective 96% CD reduction on your most important ability. CDR isn't less valuable on Shyv, it's more valuable.

But she still doesn't need it. Also, it is very difficult to itemize for cooldown reduction on Shyvana, since most cooldown reduction items have wasted stats for her. Most 20% CDR items have wasted stats: Frozen Heart has wasted mana, Nashor's Tooth has wasted AP, and I don't even need to talk about Morellonomicon/Athene's Unholy Grail. The Black Cleaver actually has non-wasted stats for Shyvana, but she doesn't benefit very much from armor penetration when more than half of her damage is magic, and this item lacks attack speed which is important for Shyvana.

She runs into similar problems for 10% CDR items. Spirit Visage is a good item, but Shyvana lacks natural sustain so she is not going to take full advantage of the passive. Also, this item is useless against full AD teams. Zephyr is not a bad item for Shyvana, but it offers no tankyness at all. Same for Youmuu's Ghostblade. Locket of the Iron Solari can be used and it's a fairly good item too, but Shyvana will generally like the extra magic resistance from Banshee's Veil more, since she is more of a selfish champion. If Iceborn Gauntlet didn't had too much gold wasted on mana, I am sure that it would be a fairly good item for Shyvana.

There is also Ionian Boots of Lucidity. But those boots offer no tankyness at all. Shyvana would rather use Ninja Tabi or Mercury's Treads.

You can use cooldown reduction runes, but then you are giving up stats for it. Cooldown reduction glyphs means that Shyvana cannot use magic resistance glyphs, and cooldown reduction quintessences means that Shyvana cannot use attack speed, attack damage, or even movement speed quintessences, all which are much better options.

I actually think that it's good that Shyvana doesn't rely on CDR, because Shyvana is an AD manaless champion without natural sustain that needs to build tanky, so it is fairly difficult for her to have good options for cooldown reduction.

She can still benefit from building CDR, but again, it is simply not a core stat for her. It's like itemizing for CDR on Yasuo. Why would you do that? His Q and his E are unnafected by cooldown reduction and his Q is even reduced by attack speed. His W and his ult benefit from CDR, but his W has a fairly long cooldown anyway, and his ult has a fairly low cooldown when compared to most ultimates.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Take it from someone who has 200 Shyvana games this season: CDR is amazing on Shyvana. Why? Because it massively alleviates your main weakness: being kited. Having your W always up is unbelievably powerful on Shyvana. The route to 40% CDR isn't that complicated. 5% from masteries, 9 cdr/lvl glyphs, and build Black Cleaver, which gives Shyv a bunch of things she likes. All of Shyvana's abilities scale extra hard with CDR because they all either have set durations, can be reduced by a flat amount per auto, or can be extended by a flat amount per auto.

If you think in terms of downtime rather than in CD's, then Shyvana scales with CDR harder than any other champion in the game. W downtime goes from 5 seconds to .2 seconds, an effective 96% decrease in downtime. E downtime goes from 3 to 0, a 100% decrease in downtime. Q is now available around every 3rd auto rather than every 6th auto (assuming Sated Devourer).

I know you're skeptical of Black Cleaver on Shyvana, so let me lay it out for you. BC gives Health, which synergizes with Shyvana's passive, 40AD with scales with both her Q and W, 20% CDR which allows for more sustained mobility and higher dps from extra Q and E usage, and the rage passive which gives even more mobility. Plus, it also gives armor shred applied on hit whenever you deal physical damage, 1 stack per auto, 2 stacks per Q, 2 stacks per sated proc, and all of that in an AOE if you're in dragon form. And don't forget, you have a decent amount of AD and botrk passive and active all as Physical damage, and that damage adds up. I often end up with more physical damage than magic damage in longer games.

So what's the final build? item 3931 item 3153 item 3071 item 1321 item 3143 item 3102. That gives you around 3200 hp, 190 armor, 140 mr, and enough damage, both dps and burst, to kill anyone you can reach extremely quickly with the mobility to reach and stick to enemies with relative ease. I've been using this build for over 100 games now and I can't go back to playing her the old way. Low CDR Shyvana just feels so painfully slow and kiteable now.

Rustling Bush1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=000400000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T10:12:25.462+0000)

It's not the same. It's not even close to the same. Take it from someone who has 200 Shyvana games this season: CDR is amazing on Shyvana. Why? Because it massively alleviates your main weakness: being kited. Having your W always up is unbelievably powerful on Shyvana. The route to 40% CDR isn't that complicated. 5% from masteries, 9 cdr/lvl glyphs, and build Black Cleaver, which gives Shyv a bunch of things she likes. All of Shyvana's abilities scale extra hard with CDR because they all either have set durations, can be reduced by a flat amount per auto, or can be extended by a flat amount per auto.

If you think in terms of downtime rather than in CD's, then Shyvana scales with CDR harder than any other champion in the game. W downtime goes from 5 seconds to .2 seconds, an effective 96% decrease in downtime. E downtime goes from 3 to 0, a 100% decrease in downtime. Q is now available around every 3rd auto rather than every 6th auto (assuming Sated Devourer).

I know you're skeptical of Black Cleaver on Shyvana, so let me lay it out for you. BC gives Health, which synergizes with Shyvana's passive, 40AD with scales with both her Q and W, 20% CDR which allows for more sustained mobility and higher dps from extra Q and E usage, and the rage passive which gives even more mobility. Plus, it also gives armor shred applied on hit whenever you deal physical damage, 1 stack per auto, 2 stacks per Q, 2 stacks per sated proc, and all of that in an AOE if you're in dragon form. And don't forget, you have a decent amount of AD and botrk passive and active all as Physical damage, and that damage adds up. I often end up with more physical damage than magic damage in longer games.

So what's the final build? item 3931 item 3153 item 3071 item 1321 item 3143 item 3102. That gives you around 3200 hp, 190 armor, 140 mr, and enough damage, both dps and burst, to kill anyone you can reach extremely quickly with the mobility to reach and stick to enemies with relative ease. I've been using this build for over 100 games now and I can't go back to playing her the old way. Low CDR Shyvana just feels so painfully slow and kiteable now.

wouldn't deadman be better on her? i know randuins passive should be helpful on her but deadman gives extra mobility if its not expended, and shyvanna builds momentum fast because of her w. it clearly has better stats and after all we still have bortk and exhuast, that momentum could be out saving grace for allowing us to use bortk and get close enough for a exhuast.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=0004000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-24T04:33:26.596+0000)

wouldn't deadman be better on her? i know randuins passive should be helpful on her but deadman gives extra mobility if its not expended, and shyvanna builds momentum fast because of her w. it clearly has better stats and after all we still have bortk and exhuast, that momentum could be out saving grace for allowing us to use bortk and get close enough for a exhuast.

Randuins is really useful so you can slow their entire team when you go in rather than 1 person. Shyvana's weakness is being kited and isolated from your team after using your ult and the Randuins slow makes that much harder to do that to you. You're gonna be diving into their team; slow them when you go in so you don't leave your entire team in the dust.

Poske12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Summoner Grey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p1J3l3jM,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-22T16:56:22.925+0000)

resourceless junglers like shyvanna.

Shouldnt she use Attackspeed quints .. or hybrid pen quints even or movement speed quints?

stabby himiko1 votes

Riven would fit over Shyvana CDR runes. Riven lives off of CDR. and Damage.

Sinlaire1 votes

RIven often uses 6 flat CDR glyphs. Azir often uses the cdr/lvl quints. other than that. the list is practically a handful with possibly left over on who can regularly justifiably run cdr runes.

ChaoticPinecone3 votes

AD/AS quints are better for your first clear than CDR (you dont need multiple rotations of W or E for most camps, and i would argue that AS lowers her cooldown on her Q more than CDR quints would for larger camps - It takes 2 autos to get the same cooldown as the 7.5% from CDR quints at level 1). And it doesnt even benefit her ult cooldown.

OneSmoothDude1 votes

Nasus.

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