can we get better ap anti-tank items.

MunchCrunchLunch··2 votes·3,223 views

right now I feel like except a cpl. actually the only one i know is fizz. going 1v1 with an ap champ vs a tank. is never a good idea. void staff imo is simply not enough to kill tanks. its still only good for the champions that don't stack health and buy 1 mr item. every time i play an ap champ and the enemy builds MR i just feel useless meanwhile if you play an AD champ its really not the case . sure it gives you full MR pen. but remember. most champions have a base MR of 30 and fewer have a base MR of 53. nothing higher. so with few armor pen runes. masteries and the sorcerer shoes. you really don't need voidstaff against squishies. yet it just feels useless against tanks. sure its alright agaisnt ones that build 1 MR item. but its not something like the black cleaver. or the giant slayer or the new last whisper which shreds tanks. straight up 50% bonus armor pen

15 Comments

Rebonack3 votes

The usual equation goes burst loses to beef, beef loses to DPS, DPS loses to burst. If burst damage is crushing tanky targets consistently (as in the Assassin meta some time ago) then there's no one to keep those champions in check and they run rampant.

IcyPepper3 votes

void staff imo is simply not enough to kill tanks.

You shouldn't be concerned about killing tanks. That is not your job.

item 3151 is what you're looking for. It helps softens them up when you poke them (if you're playing something AP without any poke... then definitely not your job) so the ADC can take care of the rest. But outright killing them? No, your class is not designed to do that. Your job is to burst squishies, and soften up tanks. The only time you should be concerned about killing a tank is when they're foolish enough to get low within your range, and by that point you don't need any specific items to do so.

There's a few anti-tank AP champions, I believe, but outside the exceptions you're not really expected to duel and kill tanks on your own.

Best KhaZix Void2 votes

AP mages shouldn't ever be able to 1v1 a tank, they're based on spell rotations. it'd be broken if they could because that means there's no downtime for their shit.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best KhaZix Void,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=otI8oYER,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-29T06:22:50.710+0000)

AP mages shouldn't ever be able to 1v1 a tank, they're based on spell rotations. it'd be broken if they could because that means there's no downtime for their shit.

I mean. thats not what I mean I feel like with kiting it should be possible but the damage output is just too pathetic unless your veigar with 1400 AP.

am not saying. i want to delete a tank in one rotation. but do some respectable damage.

tanks just walk up to the most fed and strongest mages without having worried about dying. meanwhile you can't tank against an adc. if the adc can kill tanks. they can effecively kill other champions even faster. the other day i made a thread and i got responses that were like " but adcs are supposed to kill tanks" if adcs can kill tanks then can't they simply kill everyone else too.? I mean their items are just so good. crit and attack speed in one item. too good. especially the burst adcs. mf, lucian, ezreal. i mean. they can burst down mages and such.

league of adcs is just stupid. way too much damage everywhere.

Sona Ping2 votes

The ADC build punishes the ranged AD champions early and mid game except against other comparatively weak champions. Simple principle: "If you are useless for the first twenty minutes and can only farm up to fight later, you get rewarded for surviving till late game with above-par, great damage"

"...but you still get blown up like lighter-fluid soaked firecrackers."

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=otI8oYER,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T07:05:58.876+0000)

The ADC build punishes the ranged AD champions early and mid game except against other comparatively weak champions. Simple principle: "If you are useless for the first twenty minutes and can only farm up to fight later, you get rewarded for surviving till late game with above-par, great damage"

"...but you still get blown up like lighter-fluid soaked firecrackers."

UNLESS YOUR GRAVES item 3053 item 3053 item 3053 item 3053 item 3053 Graves item 3053 item 3053 item 3053 item 3053

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=otI8oYER,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-01-29T07:05:58.876+0000)

The ADC build punishes the ranged AD champions early and mid game except against other comparatively weak champions. Simple principle: "If you are useless for the first twenty minutes and can only farm up to fight later, you get rewarded for surviving till late game with above-par, great damage"

"...but you still get blown up like lighter-fluid soaked firecrackers."

this is only half true. first of all adc early and midgame got significantly buffed this season. armor pen is faster available due to last whisper build pathes, they all got 5 ad at lvl 1, their items have easier build paths and grant earlier powerspikes due to the relative cost reduction. (most adc items kept their price while ambient gold was largely increased. defensive items either lost stats or got more expensive or both, ap items were increased in price).

then there is the problem that adc were never weak against certain types of champions early game. they absolutlely destroy melee bruisers in lane from lvl 1 on. and there are some adc that can lane against mages without issue.

for being "lategame champions", adc can be quite the lane bullies with their constant auto attack poke.

Sona Ping2 votes

Hey, he was speaking generally, so I was speaking generally.

And there are good reasons ADC have to be stuck in duo lanes for the past years.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=otI8oYER,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-01-29T08:06:58.880+0000)

Hey, he was speaking generally, so I was speaking generally.

And there are good reasons ADC have to be stuck in duo lanes for the past years.

there were multiple phases with solo laning adc being common. remember tristana on mid lane, varus, cait? top lane lucian and vayne?

right now theyre not exactly stuck in duo lane either. we have multiple jungle adc with kindred, graves, quinn, and some solo lane adc. from the looks of it jhinn is going to solo lane aswell.

heck, most high ranked solo que teams and pro teams are running double adc comps almost every game right now.

the main reason why adc went into duo lane was efficiency rather than that they could never solo lane at all. adc arent very level dependent but scale crazy with items. so it makes sense to put the guy into the duo lane with the other guy who can do with a low gold income.

the thing is that there HAS to be at least one duo lane in every team due to the map layout. adc are sadly the most efficent choice for that, which really reduces bot lane diversity.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

I mean. thats not what I mean I feel like with kiting it should be possible but the damage output is just too pathetic unless your veigar with 1400 AP.

am not saying. i want to delete a tank in one rotation. but do some respectable damage.

tanks just walk up to the most fed and strongest mages without having worried about dying. meanwhile you can't tank against an adc. if the adc can kill tanks. they can effecively kill other champions even faster. the other day i made a thread and i got responses that were like " but adcs are supposed to kill tanks" if adcs can kill tanks then can't they simply kill everyone else too.? I mean their items are just so good. crit and attack speed in one item. too good. especially the burst adcs. mf, lucian, ezreal. i mean. they can burst down mages and such.

league of adcs is just stupid. way too much damage everywhere.

yes, but doesnt this rather mean adc need nerfs?

Best KhaZix Void1 votes

{quoted}

I mean. thats not what I mean I feel like with kiting it should be possible but the damage output is just too pathetic unless your veigar with 1400 AP.

am not saying. i want to delete a tank in one rotation. but do some respectable damage.

tanks just walk up to the most fed and strongest mages without having worried about dying. meanwhile you can't tank against an adc. if the adc can kill tanks. they can effecively kill other champions even faster. the other day i made a thread and i got responses that were like " but adcs are supposed to kill tanks" if adcs can kill tanks then can't they simply kill everyone else too.? I mean their items are just so good. crit and attack speed in one item. too good. especially the burst adcs. mf, lucian, ezreal. i mean. they can burst down mages and such.

league of adcs is just stupid. way too much damage everywhere.

if you're not doing respectable damage to tanks you're either missing skillshots, not building voidstaff, or someone's feeding their asses off.

Mael bro1 votes

Say what? Ryze

Best KhaZix Void1 votes

{quoted}

Say what? Ryze

yeah, turns out he's horribly broken right now who would've thought.

Paroe1 votes

Does liandries not exist or something?

FioraWillCarry1 votes

Sustained damage is the true counter to tanks. Mages like Azir or Casseopiea with Liandry and Voidstaff would melt tanks.

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