Tryndamere is too weak vs Randuins

Critkeeper·May 14, 2017·3 votes·1,707 views

Unlike any other crit user he doesn't have anything except his crits and he doesn't have a back up plan, so that makes Randuins balance against most crit users and just plain too good versus Tryndamere.

I don't think the answer is to buff Tryndamere though, because then he'd just be too strong against the people who don't or haven't yet built Randuins, which makes him even more snowbally than he already is.

I think the answer is to give him a back up plan, although I don't know what that would entail or whether it is even practical to do given his current kit. He probably needs a Rework, but whatever happens it is NOT ok to have any item counter a specific champion THIS intensely.

20 Comments

SasogwaMay 14, 20174 votes

Tryndamere's insanely overrated by these boards. If you just outtrade him badly and he can't all in you, he'll never be able to push out towers. You can very well stay in the same lane as him, deny him. He's like any other pick ; his ult makes him a good duellist and that's it. If you're not able to take any objectives after Trynda suicides to get one, it's your fault. There's a thing called death timers where you can actually do something else than fapping.

The Lost MarblesMay 14, 20173 votes

Isn't the Tryndamere back-up plan already to just ignore the enemy team and push lanes? I mean, his kit's not lacking in ways to back out of unfavorable fights.

He can't be countered by Randuin's if he just never fights the guy with Randuin's.

CritkeeperMay 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lost Marbles,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-14T04:24:18.779+0000)

Isn't the Tryndamere back-up plan already to just ignore the enemy team and push lanes? I mean, his kit's not lacking in ways to back out of unfavorable fights.

He can't be countered by Randuin's if he just never fights the guy with Randuin's.

The Randuins wearer can slow Trynd with the active, and make it difficult for Trynd to do that.

Gamukko PerkeleJul 23, 20172 votes

I have a complaint, Tryndamere is insanely weak right now against the new champion Kayn, even with more items and farm than him he can just out trade you in probably one shoot you in every stage of the game. Why does this champ Trynda have many counters? Pls Riot give Trynda a mini-rework of some sort like you guys did to Aatrox. He's incredibly weak against tanks, almost all of em destroy him, it doesn't matter if you buy tenacity (Maok, Galio, Poppy, etc) RIvens counter him badly, Teemos obliterate him, Yasuos do insanely more dmg than him in every stage of the game. In the past season you could be able to counter Yasuo, but this season is just bad for Trynda, he's useless for team fights, he only does kinda well at split pushing but the Tankier champions like Yorick, SInged or Cho'gath for example, just do it way better than him. Come on RIot give some love to that old champion please. Thank you.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

that is what the item is designed to do... its to counter crit based auto attackers

CritkeeperMay 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-05-14T04:23:06.048+0000)

that is what the item is designed to do... its to counter crit based auto attackers

What I'm saying is that it does that job, but is balanced around the idea that crit based auto attackers have other things they can leverage-- they don't have to just sit there and whack you over and over. For instance, Yasuo can still make plays in team fights, and marksmen still have good target selection with their high range.

Tryndamere doesn't have either of those. He literally split pushes because he can't do anything else, and if you build Randuins and start fighting him, he literally has to whack you over and over. Its a very extreme and exceptional case.

Randuins wasn't created to bring crit users in-line versus tanks but specifically nerf Tryndamere unusually hard because of his atypical patterns

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

tryndaqueer gets free crit just for auto attacking ... he dont have to have any items to get this CRIT

someone playing against him would have to spend 2900 gold in one item to have any chance in lane vs him

that gives him a 2900 gold advantage not including the gold efficiency of FREE CRIT which correct me if im wrong but is 35% crit at full fury ?

so item 3094 cost 2600 gold and gives 30% crit... so if you take hmm lets call it 1800 gold just for the crit plus the 2900 gold the enemy has to buy to face him in lane that gives tryn a 4400 gold advantage (estimate of course ) just for his passive

so lets stop crying how bad he has it

CritkeeperMay 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T04:35:19.579+0000)

tryndaqueer gets free crit just for auto attacking ... he dont have to have any items to get this CRIT

someone playing against him would have to spend 2900 gold in one item to have any chance in lane vs him

that gives him a 2900 gold advantage not including the gold efficiency of FREE CRIT which correct me if im wrong but is 35% crit at full fury ?

so cost 2600 gold and gives 30% crit... so if you take hmm lets call it 1800 gold just for the crit plus the 2900 gold the enemy has to buy to face him in lane that gives tryn a 4400 gold advantage (estimate of course ) just for his passive

so lets stop crying how bad he has it

Its not "free" crit, he pays for it in the power budget of his kit.

I don't see Tryndamere walking around hitting things from 550 range, blowing people up from half the map away with magic damage or hard crowd controlling an entire team of enemies.

He's supposed to do damage with his auto attacks, because that is basically all he is good for-- like master yi.

Master yi gets immunity to movement speed and attack speed slows and a lot of on hit true damage, so he can do damage regardless whether or not the enemy builds a randuins, ninja tabi or whatever. Fiora has a lot of true damage from her procs. Yasuo has 50% bonus armor penetration from his ultimate. Gangplank barrels virtually ignore armor and he has true damage over time on his auto attacks.

Skirmishers are supposed to deal high damage to any target they can reach, regardless of how durable the target is. Tryndamere has great defensive abilities like yasuo, fiora and yi, but doesn't have any answer for durable targets.

He is the easiest champion to counterbuild in the entire game-- its literally all crits, so that means ninja tabi, randuins, frozen heart and just plain armor and health works fantastic against him. It shouldn't, if Tryndamere is supposed to be a skirmisher.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

and tryn gets a heal, a slow, movement speed/gap closer and an ult that makes him not die

STFU about how unfair tryn is NO ONE CARES

CritkeeperMay 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T05:42:58.955+0000)

and tryn gets a heal, a slow, movement speed/gap closer and an ult that makes him not die

STFU about how unfair tryn is NO ONE CARES

Kindred gets a heal, a slow, a movement speed/gap closer and an ult that makes her not die.

So does Kayle.

Both of them have range, so yes its ok if Tryndamere has crit chance instead.

And i'm not going to stop.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

and randums is effective vs them as well [zombie-brand-mindblown]

CritkeeperMay 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T05:46:01.812+0000)

and randums is effective vs them as well [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Not nearly as effective, or didn't you read the OP

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

oh i read it... and any thing that reduces on hit damage... attack speed slow and gives tanky stats is good vs on hit auto attackers

matter of fact i hope every game you play as tryn the player you face builds item 3047 item 3075 item 3143

PermabannedGarenMay 14, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=omcfAZao,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-14T05:50:07.054+0000)

oh i read it... and any thing that reduces on hit damage... attack speed slow and gives tanky stats is good vs on hit auto attackers

matter of fact i hope every game you play as tryn the player you face builds

You need to calm the fuck down dude.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoMay 14, 20171 votes

no i dont...

by saying i hope people build items in game to counter a champ is what? toxic?

lol whatever

PermabannedGarenMay 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Its not "free" crit, he pays for it in the power budget of his kit.

I don't see Tryndamere walking around hitting things from 550 range, blowing people up from half the map away with magic damage or hard crowd controlling an entire team of enemies.

He's supposed to do damage with his auto attacks, because that is basically all he is good for-- like master yi.

Master yi gets immunity to movement speed and attack speed slows and a lot of on hit true damage, so he can do damage regardless whether or not the enemy builds a randuins, ninja tabi or whatever. Fiora has a lot of true damage from her procs. Yasuo has 50% bonus armor penetration from his ultimate. Gangplank barrels virtually ignore armor and he has true damage over time on his auto attacks.

Skirmishers are supposed to deal high damage to any target they can reach, regardless of how durable the target is. Tryndamere has great defensive abilities like yasuo, fiora and yi, but doesn't have any answer for durable targets.

He is the easiest champion to counterbuild in the entire game-- its literally all crits, so that means ninja tabi, randuins, frozen heart and just plain armor and health works fantastic against him. It shouldn't, if Tryndamere is supposed to be a skirmisher.

Tryndamere is the sole skirmisher who can pretty much always afford to have a lord dominik's regards or mortal reminder in his build.

Yasuo? Other than his two crit items all of his items have to increase his survivability at least a little, which is why he then gets a lifesteal item followed by hybrid damage/defense items like maw or frozen mallet or pure defense like old GA. He still gets to be a threat to tanks because of the bonus armour pen of his ultimate.

Master Yi is similar, after bloodrazor, bork, and guinsoo's he needs some bulk to survive team fights and manages to be a threat to tanks due to stacking the shit out of percent health on-hits and more importantly having like 150 true damage on every auto attack, topped with 2.5 AS.

Fiora also needs bulk to survive, and doesn't have to buy a LW item (she does get a cleaver though) because of her huge percent health true damage.

The other skirmishers, Riven, Jax, and Ekko, are actually worse at killing tanks in general than Tryndamere. But Tryndamere can afford to buy a shitty slot-inefficient item like LDR or MR because of his ultimate, which makes him impossible to simply burst down if he uses it, unlike the other skirmishers. Among skirmishers he is the only one who can be built with a greedy ass ADC build that goes full damage (though semi-tanky Tryndamere builds seem to be popular in high elo these days, yuck). When he does this he can shred tanks just fine.

CritkeeperMay 14, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere is the sole skirmisher who can pretty much always afford to have a lord dominik's regards or mortal reminder in his build.

Yasuo? Other than his two crit items all of his items have to increase his survivability at least a little, which is why he then gets a lifesteal item followed by hybrid damage/defense items like maw or frozen mallet or pure defense like old GA. He still gets to be a threat to tanks because of the bonus armour pen of his ultimate.

Master Yi is similar, after bloodrazor, bork, and guinsoo's he needs some bulk to survive team fights and manages to be a threat to tanks due to stacking the shit out of percent health on-hits and more importantly having like 150 true damage on every auto attack, topped with 2.5 AS.

Fiora also needs bulk to survive, and doesn't have to buy a LW item (she does get a cleaver though) because of her huge percent health true damage.

The other skirmishers, Riven, Jax, and Ekko, are actually worse at killing tanks in general than Tryndamere. But Tryndamere can afford to buy a shitty slot-inefficient item like LDR or MR because of his ultimate, which makes him impossible to simply burst down if he uses it, unlike the other skirmishers. Among skirmishers he is the only one who can be built with a greedy ass ADC build that goes full damage (though semi-tanky Tryndamere builds seem to be popular in high elo these days, yuck). When he does this he can shred tanks just fine.

Doesn't do dick squat against the passives of randuins omen

and your claim about other skirmishers not being able to build a LW item is false

PermabannedGarenMay 14, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't do dick squat against the passives of randuins omen

And Yasuo's bonus armour penetration does?

and your claim about other skirmishers not being able to build a LW item is false

I didn't say they weren't able to build it, of course they all could buy the item if they so chose to. But they almost never do. Do you have any idea why? It's because the item provides almost nothing but the ability to damage tanks. Most importantly, it provides no defense to melee champions who can simply be bursted down if they build greedy full damage items. This is not true of Tryndamere.