How to make SoloKaiser a viable option

Malicious Metal··30 votes·1,455 views

While reading the patch notes for 5.18 (r.i.p metallic mastery) I saw something along the lines of riot thinking that the lack of Sustain made solo lane Mordekaiser turn out to be weaker than expected. Which isn't really the main reason for his poor performance in solo lanes (around 44% win rate as of now top and 39% mid). The real reason is the lack of fallback patterns old Mordekaiser had in order to survive unfavorable matchups and not chainfeed and become a liability to his team. >>He can't do that anymore due to him not being able to safely farm from a distance, resulting in him getting even more behind. Not to mention his usually fatal encounters with the enemy jungler<<

Other solo laners can either safely CS from a distance or are tanky/mobile enough to do so without dying miserably, which the tin can can't do as of now. His siphon of destruction was severely nerfed in damage, leaving his former bread and butter ability into a miserable spot and stripping him from means to safely farm from range with a well placed E. Not to mention the fact that he can't push lanes even if his life depended on it. His nerfed E and the lack of a functioning W make his laning outside of the care of his babysitter...erm... I mean support a living hell if things don't go his way. Not to mention his bane; getting ganked pre rework was oftentimes something that didn't result in him getting recycled but rather get either a double kill or build up enough shield to survive the enemy assault or even put his creeping death on a backline creep and use the speed boost to escape sticks situations. >>Morde's basically bank-bait due to his lack of natural survivability and abysmal mobility. He used to gain enough shield to shrug off the enemy attacks and retreat to his tower or use his W defensively for a speed boost. Having 340 MS used to be enough to fall back to the tower while tanking the damage with his shield<<

Now, why was Mordekaiser reworked to fit into a duo lane? According to CertainlyT it was due to him being unhealthy Solo but he turned out to be just as bad duo if not worse, making the argument somewhat invalid. But Morde really WAS toxic to play against. Past tense. He used to be too much of a lane bully due to his shield and E making for pretty unhealthy gameplay patterns but the rework not only nerfed his most iconic ability (passive) but also his E so that the problematic aspects were basically taken care off.

Now how could we help Solo lane Mordekaiser out without making his duo stronger and/or making him the bane of any melee top laner as he was before? Iron Man: His defensive steroid was basically gutted in the rework due to the nerf to its damage conversion from 35-25% of the damage dealt. This was a hit to his identity and also made him escaping a two man assault less likely. I suggest buffing up the percentage to 30% while only being one third (10%) against minions. >>This would be a buff to his survivability in fights, which weren't the problematic aspects of his passive and a nerf to his bully nature by making hitting minion waves generate less shield<<

Harvester of Sorrow How many times did I mention this before? Give him his Aoe damage shroud again and make it being applicable to minions to give him means to push out waves on his own and also from distance if the situation demands it. If you're crazy you could also add a small ratio that converts some of his ap into MR/armor while the shroud's active similar ro his old W since the loss of resistances hurt his solo lane. Not a necessity though since the damage should be enough. Also, Morde's the only juggernaut with 325 MS, while Skarner,, Darius and Garen enjoy higher movement speed while still having CC and mobility in their kits. A small change would be to give him some of his MS back around 330-335ish while nerfing the active speed boost from his Harvester. >>This would allow Mordekaiser to have a fallback strategy in difficult matchups while also gaining the means to build up shield and push out waves more efficiently. The MS shift would also help him escape ganks<<

Siphon of destruction I'm honestly reluctant to say this needs buffs to its base damage since it would only make him return to his bully nature. What COULD be done is increase the AP ratio in order to make his range farming a bit easier while not really making him fall back to being this unhealthy meanie. >>Up to debate<<

Now these are just the things I experienced where the biggest problems for Mordekaiser's solo laning, which, if addressed would make taking him top/mid an alternative if your team insists on having a normal ADC bot lane and you just feel like counter picking an enemy assassin pr other late game carry top lane with someone who could deal with them.

It would help us Mordekaiser players to NOT handicap our team if they're unable to take a solo lane ADC as well as giving us options where we could play the Master of Metal.

Just a quick brainstorming session on my part, I'm bound to have left something out so go ahead and give us your own opinion what Mordekaiser needs in order to expand his horizon regarding other positions and strategies.

~M.M

34 Comments

Raid Boss Morde17 votes

You know what really annoys me? They nerfed his base Armor at level 1 and 18, but also removed the AR and MR steroid he got from his W. Then they nerfed his base HP, HP per level, and reduced his shield gain by 10%. All of this hits his durability pretty hard

A lot of people didn't really notice how badly they hit all of his base stats, here are some of them. All at level 18, unless listed otherwise:

Morde now has the 7th lowest base HP in the game: 1776 Morde now has the LOWEST base HP regen in the game, even lower than Riven and Gnar now: 9.1 Morde now has the HIGHEST base AD in the game: 146 Morde now has the 2nd lowest base Attack Speed at level 1: 0.6 Morde is now tied with quite a few champions with the lowest Movement Speed:** 325**

What also really annoys me, is that a GIANT suit of ARMOR has LESS armor than 113 champions, including a freaking Teemo, Yi, and a bunch of ADCs.

EDIT: Included some statistics of his base stats.

Malicious Metal6 votes

Yeah, the rework didn't do his tanky side justice. He isn't only damage, He's durability obtained VIA damage. He had options to go a bit more damage heavy in order to survive on his damage alone, which was risky but really added to his character. Not like Vlad's free Health/AP yet similar and more interactive.

They really have to shift some numbers a bit in order to make him truly be the Man of Steel.

Jotunheimr6 votes

People keep saying Morde is tanky, but he is SO squishy. I bet those people haven't played him recently, and have played against experiernced Morde mains. I feel that being THAT squishy AND slow is very unhealthy for gameplay. It'd be diffrent if Morde had a better sustain, whether from his passive or heal.

Teemo more armor than a possesed suit of armor itself? Wtf. That's crazy. This is what happens when people complain about a champion a lot, expecting to kill everyone with thier mains no matter what. Why can't people understand that immobile champs are supposed to deal heavy damage? It's like they want the champion destroyed and out of the way because they can't handle a challenge. Even if, justt cc and silence Morde, and you can burst him down. Simple counterplay. Now you can only deal decent damage with q, if you can land it(and not die because your squishiness)

Raid Boss Morde3 votes

Seriously, it's annoying. People are always saying how tanky Mordekaiser is, but no... he's squishy! Even his base stats suck! What makes him "tanky" is his shield, but it's not even that good anymore, and his ultimate, which gives him lots of sustain for a short amount of time.

If you just stun, silence, or knock him up, you'll notice that he becomes realllyyy squishy. If Mordekaiser can't deal damage, he gets no shield. If he gets no shield, he isn't tanky.

Jotunheimr6 votes

Exactly. One must play Morde to understand. With his shield and sustain nerfs, it's getting a bit difficult to play him effectivly. Seriously, any champ is good when fed. People shouldn't hate on specific champions. The effects ruin the game for people because of it.

Even current Darius can be countered. I counter new Darius by Lifesteal Olaf. No tank, just LS sustain and Ad. Poke with q, trade with q and e when pulled. When coming into lane, R and chase. It doesn't mean Olaf is OP, because he's not. I've mastered him and use his kit to the best of it's potential is all.

Morde mains can say the same. Yall have learned Morde to a tee, and play well because of that, not because he is some unbeatable God. Why do people want to punish good ayers, you know? Too much salty peeps, lol

ANY champ has counterplay. You must know the strategy. League IS a strategy game after all. The point is to know proper strategy with each given kit, not nerf it so the champ disappears :(</3

Jotunheimr6 votes

I do like your ideas and experience with Morde, Malicious Metal. I like Mordekaiser because he has so much potential.

I'm with you all the way, the lack of AoE damage is devastating. Morde seems to be the I'm strong and super slow, so don't get close to me or you will take damage sort of champ, and an AoE over time damage aura resonates with that identity.

Personally, I have had too many games where I get killed constantly because the enemy tears thru my shield, I cant escape, and am screwed when q and e are on cd, with no other form of shield or damage other than the damage from the super slow AAs. I die, the enemy snowballs and Morde is screwed from being slow and squishy.

But man, dunno why, but I love Morde. SO MUCH POTENTIAL! My goal is to perfect Morde,play him with skill, and be an asset to any team.

Malicious Metal6 votes

That's what bothers me with the rework. His identity took a bit hit and his solo laning got screwed really hard making him even more feast or famine since dying to your lane opponent usually makes you get even more behind due to the lack of defensive steroids and means to escape getting ganked and play defensively by farming from a distance.

Heck, he needs some of his AoE back and they could add some Metal effects back. He's the master of metal for crying out loud!

And I have to agree fully with your last point; I used to do everything in my power to benefit my team as a damage heavy top laner pre-rework, serving as a somewhat of a raid boss who relied on either the enemy engaging to turn fights or my allies CC. He had the same weaknesses as the current Morde but they weren't as stark and he actually had an identity as an AP juggernaut.

The potential's most definitely there, it just has to be tapped and build on the Iron Man's identity and themes.

Jotunheimr1 votes

So true! He is supposed to be the Master of Metal! Morde must live up to his name.

Unfortunatly, I never had the chance to play Morde pre-rework. I bought him when he was on sale, and was wowed by the q damage, and found out the hard way about the cons of w. I'd be willing to sacrifice the exp for damage over time. It's too bad that w's health cost pretty much negates it's heal, inless in the jungle. Against champions, it's Ok.

A reason I like morde is his ability to grab objectives. Even if we are losing, I found pushing towers helped open up the game. This is no more since the dissapearance of Metallic Mastery. I push objectives better with Olaf since 5.18.

But I just can't get over that dragon ghost and soul steal ult. I can't get over that potential: The current difficult kit looks to me as a challenge to learn Morde despite his current kit holes.

Jotunheimr4 votes

idea for polishing his current kit:

Q: FEAR THE MACE: reduce 3rd hit damage, but allow half of the total 3rd q damage done to 2 closest surrounding units. When enemies are near, it prioritizes enemy champions before minons. Possibly up health cost a bit.

W: MISERY LOVES COMPANY: Allow self cast do deal AoE damage when activated (buff w self cast), keep the extra armor, speed and current heal. When cast on an ally, w does half the damage compared to self cast, but when overlapping with an ally, does double and a half damage of the reduced damage done from the ally cast. Hits ALL units in aura, not just 2.

E: AFFLICTION, FOREVER: More damage, LESS shield, keep current range.

R: HUEHUEHUE: Slightly buff the over time damage so it's not completly negated by a potion.

Passive: IRON DOESN'T MELT AT ROOM TEMPATURE: No shield degeneration.

Malicious Metal4 votes

As for your ideas; Q; A callback to his old mace of spades? I like the branching out damage he had in form of shattering metal bits so I must say this one intrigues me but I have my concerns regarding the third hit potentially dealing up to 500 damage to two more enemies making for 2000 damage that feeds into his shield. A third of the damage seems fitting but it should be compensated with a vastly increased health cost

W: Hooray for self casting!

E: I'm hesitant to say they should buff his E but a shift from more damage but less shield could be a decent change if they revert it back to the static 6 second codlin.

R; Yeah his level one ultimate sucks a bit but hey, it scales really well.

Jotunheimr1 votes

Q- definatly would help wave clear and good for bruising in team fights. W- WE NEED THE AOE DAMAGE ASFGJLLOURWWJKOGDFHNCCNKTDHKDTIGFJHDVJYFJLJ E- I agree, a 6 sec cooldown with extra damage seems fair. R- you're totally right, it does scale well. Suppose his ult can be left unchanged.

But that w is the most important thing. Can't stress enough how much that AoE damage is needed. :/

Raid Boss Morde5 votes

Only his early game ultimate is weak, and it's ALWAYS been negated by a potion early game. His Q should have an AoE equal to a third of the damage on the third hit. Then he would get more waveclear back! His E should also get back the range it used to have...

Malicious Metal7 votes

Damn you were faster than me! ^w^

He just needs his wave clear back. heck Darius out-Morde's our Tin can currently; Being this damage threat in team fights, undying and thriving in the midst of battle. This is sad TT_TT

Raid Boss Morde4 votes

I've been paying more and more attention to your posts, Morde mains must unite, right?

frigginmurlocs1 votes

Remeber prerework mordekaiser colud fill his entire shield with a rank 5 e

Jotunheimr1 votes

I see. Yes, the AoE q would be nice, considering it's still read as an AoE ability. Which makes no sense to me. More E range would be nice, I agree, but I'm afraid to give people a reason to nerf his damage. I'd much rather Morde be a slow death truck than a fast ranged weaker version. I mean, if you build DMP and boots of swiftness, a little damage buff on e could be viable with the current range, no?

ltmetal3 votes

Let's take a moment to look at two champions most played in solo lanes whose kits pump out high single target damage at the cost of waveclear, but manage to have healthy laning phases.

Nasus fulfills a role similar to the most frequently played style for Mordekaiser, but while having much more solo lane viability. Nasus's sustain is not gimped against minions, and when ganked or behind, Nasus is able to slow the jungler or scale into the late game for a huge comeback.

Swain has worst in class waveclear for solo lane mages. However, his single target damage, cc, and range make him capable of threatening and zoning enough to secure last hits when ahead and benefit greatly from ganks when behind. Swain even has the ultimate + Zhonya's combo to stay alive in fights more effectively than Mordekaiser's current shield.

Mordekaiser will never be as viable a choice for solo laning as either of these champs without changes. But I don't want to see him given cc or a buff to his ranged damage. I also would prefer not to see his stats buffed when the problem is better fixed by making Mordekaiser more unique so that you don't want to compare these champs so directly in the first place. Give Mordekaiser a much stronger shield so that he has a viable fallback option and doesn't chain feed an enemy laner. Additionally, I would like to say waveclear reincorporated into solo lane Morde's kit. If you aren't going to have cc or mobility, you need another way to exert map pressure.

Mordepool2 votes

100% agree. In the mean time I recommend jungling. Have had most of my success there. Will post my build in a minute. Lanes seem very clunky build path in the jungle I've found a smooth transition to power

Jotunheimr1 votes

Please do. I tried him jubg, and did okay. Don't really know what would work best tho. Tried runeglaive, cinderhulk, and devourer, ehh they were ok. Devour seemed the best. I do like his jungle w regen tho. It's nice.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

Please do. I tried him jubg, and did okay. Don't really know what would work best tho. Tried runeglaive, cinderhulk, and devourer, ehh they were ok. Devour seemed the best. I do like his jungle w regen tho. It's nice.

I've done a fair amount of Jungle Morde is low diamond, and I've just been getting stalker blade and not upgrading it. Rush Trinity, then Steraks or Rylai's, then the other one, and from there I branch out quite a bit.

Bijorn2 votes

+1 for this. With you 100% MM. I want Solokaiser back. We deserve attention from Riot on this.

Vhalthoria2 votes

This is why the current Morde can't function in a solo lane and in order to make him do so they need to work on this design:

**All damage shifted to his Close quarter spell and all others offensive spells' range have been reduced to further encourage him into close quarters. **

I would welcome this rework if it weren't for the following:

Base Movement Speed: 325

You know, we are talking about a melee guy who doesn't have any sort of innate gapclosers, CC, Escapes who also happens to be VERY squishy but now thanks to this rework is even more squishier.

Base Health nerf:

Now is among the champions with the least amount of health in the game (For not saying the worst.)

Iron Man:

This version is design-wise weaker than the old one. Again we are talking about a guy with such low health base who also happens to have the worst regeneration stats in the game, who happens to be immobile, lack any sort of innate CC, gapclosers, and escapes. Why would you make a squishy immobile champion without the tools to survive in the area you design him to be effective? (Close Quarters)

Mace of Spades (Q)

Now all his power has been shifted to this. Granted, this thing hurts but the fact that Morde's AS is also nerfed to the ground makes this a companion reliant spell, considering most things at top lane will kite you. This is just a warning tool which also happens to go away if you let it there for 3 seconds without doing anything with it.

It is so impractical that it really takes away all of the motivation to play Morde anywhere outside of Bot lane.

The Removal of Creeping Death in favor of the New Garbage of Sorrows.

Harvesters of Sorrow (W)

An ally-reliant spells which also happens to be horrendously broken by design. Because, this is healthier than Old Morde, right?

You get solo exp for last hitting at bot which gets you to level 6 way sooner than your enemies do (you will have a 2-Lv advantage over them by then) and that's great design because CertainlyT knows best, of course.

I'm not mentioning Siphon of Destruction or Children of the Grave (I don't even like the Dragon gimmick either) because I can deal with these changes no problem and to be honest, they, by themselves aren't that bad. but the aforementioned is just overkill for Morde and to this day I'm still immensely butt-hurt by these changes

The problem with Solo Morde is not even his new W design, IT IS ALL OF THESE CHANGES COMBINED. So please take away from your head that if they buff his W it will save his solo lane potential because, unfortunately, that is not the case with new Morde. His issue is not his new W design, but the fact that he was butchered stats-wise in order to make him feel like an ADC in which you can't be by yourself on the map.

To this day I'm extremely mad about this excuse of a Rework to the extend that my motivation to keep going with this game has been reduced to just playing once a month.

TL;DR

Rework Morde will not work in a solo lane because they have butchered him stats-wise to make him ally dependent. He is now slower, squishier, and limited (especially when solo). His new W by itself won't save his solo lane potential. It has to do more with his base starts more importantly.

rG Thundrag1 votes

I would like to point out top lane morde is actually doing pretty well at the moment after the selfcasting w as anti-melee lane bully vs most champions other than Darius that snowballs super hard. But as always hes super immobile and can just be ganked with his even more miserable MS.

The selfcast just heal pop is actually reasonable damage for a rank 1 skill considering it does 70 damage with a 100% True-vamp but it still feels lack luster.

bahamutkaiser1 votes

His current kit is just too specialized, it's sad that they made the most independent champion the most dependant champion over the course of the game. But since they are going to go with their own inspiration no matter how it plays out, I'd be happy if they just keep working on it. No more 4 year siestas.

As long as harvester is duo only, solo kaiser is trash, they never should have built a support or cooperation feature into it to begin with. More consolidated power please.

Mordepool1 votes

Masteries 25/5/0 jungling Runes: Seals Health per lvl 18 x9 Marks Hybrid penetration x9 Glyphs Cooldown per lvl 18 x9 Quintessences of Ability Power x 3

Summoner Spellssummoner 4 summoner 11

Start with item 1039 turn that intoitem 3706 with options of(both later game buys honestly)item 3707 oritem 3930) the sustain from jungling items with the miniscule w healing makes for a slow start but by 1st back should be clearing camps easy

Abilities go W (for starting leash) Q,E,Q,Q,Q
once you have item 3241 and item 3706 build item 3078
full build should look like item 3707 item 1305 item 3078 item 3742 item 3116 with optional items likeitem 3143 item 3152 item 3089

Mordepool1 votes

Devourer look good but you only get the stats from it. The unique passive doesn't work with Q.

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

Devourer look good but you only get the stats from it. The unique passive doesn't work with Q.

Yea, it doesn't even work with item on-hits during your q.

Mordepool1 votes

{quoted}

Yea, it doesn't even work with item on-hits during your q.

It should honestly as it works correctly with all other empowered 3 hit combos. They should fix it help solokaiser (onlyKaiser)

MealReadytoEat1 votes

{quoted}

It should honestly as it works correctly with all other empowered 3 hit combos. They should fix it help solokaiser (onlyKaiser)

It should work with either all or none - they actually specifically re-programmed Xin's q's to make sated break him, while they left Rek'sai and Morde in the dust.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

Solokaiser will never be truly viable because Riot doesn't want it to be viable. Then we just have pre-rework Morde again.

Mongoose1 votes

why would we want mordekaiser to be viable solo with that q, especially top lane against melees

hard zones or get one shot

Malicious Metal1 votes

The ability is extremely telegraphed and most top laners can either use their defensive steroids and much higher base stats to mitigate the damage. Besides, without a support Morde won't be able to hit all three for free without retaliation.

MrWasjig1 votes

The problem with poor old Mordekaiser is that his original kit was inherently unhealthy, and CertainlyT tried to rework Morde off the back of that. The result is a kit that's even more difficult to balance than it was before. The only way they can really make Mordekaiser balanced for the roles they want him to be in is to completely rework him from the ground up, square one, from the beginning etc.

Vhalthoria2 votes

{quoted}

The result is a kit that's even more difficult to balance than it was before.

And twice as Unhealthti'er than before.

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