5-portal build: How do you counter it if their "Hatchery" is guarded by a "Bunker"?

darkdill··6 votes·1,616 views

Imagine a game where the enemy team gets 5 Zz'Rot Portals, and has a Teemo, Heimerdinger and Zyra (or something like that). They put all the portals in one patch of brush, set up turrets and mines, and dare you to approach them. You can't kill the portals with ranged spells, only with auto-attacks. Since they're in brush, you have to get on top of them to kill them. Any attempt to assault that "Hatchery" (as I'll call it) is utter suicide because of the mines and turrets creating what I call a "Bunker".

Does that seem at all fair? Not to me. Why? Because in the middle of all these anti-tower measures, Riot has not given the players any new means of turret DEFENSE. They die faster than ever, suck more than ever, and trying to defend them generally results in that turret getting you killed.

Riot, I know Fortify was toxic, but that doesn't mean there should be no means of protecting turrets outside of Janna's shield. More and more, they just keep becoming heavier burdens that don't contribute at all. No one fears turrets while diving these days. Rather, they thank the turrets for helping them kill you.

Anybody want to discuss this? I really wish they could've given Ohmwrecker some sort of ally-turret effect.

EDIT: Okay, maybe 5 portals is unrealistic, but even 2-3 portals can be nasty to deal with under the right circumstances.

29 Comments

KidSpectre11 votes

If they want to devote so many resources to taking one turret, I'd let them have it and go split push other lanes while they're camping in brush.

darkdill1 votes

Odds are they have Teleport to block that.

Major Sparkles1 votes

And then weaken their hatchery hold.

Grand Eleven1 votes

{quoted}

And then weaken their hatchery hold.

How so? neither heimer's turrets nor teemo's shrooms are gated by distance. He's just talking about making the item extremely costly to take out by abusing the vision mechanics and placing defenses around them. Honestly I think it might be good with even just a teemo (pepper bush with shrooms then drop one in .... move onto the next lane while the enemy team has to dedicate an absurd amount of time to break that bunker).

Narasimha1 votes

This sounds like an incredibly specific and unlikely scenario.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Well, it's only unlikely until people discover it, if it's as crazy as the OP suggests. It isn't like people don't abuse things like this in LoL. AP trynd anyone?

Lil Soybean3 votes

{quoted}

Well, it's only unlikely until people discover it, if it's as crazy as the OP suggests. It isn't like people don't abuse things like this in LoL. AP trynd anyone?

Your team would have sunk ~15,000 gold or so into just having the portals, and once they're set up, the voidlings only go far enough to take one tower. Also, the shrooms/turrets will, by default, be significantly weaker than you simply because they all invested so much gold in Zz'Rot instead of offensive power.

This sounds fun, and potentially strong, but aside from walking away and shoving other lanes, it'd probably be relatively easy to just dive them and fight 5v5. Yes, even with Teemo Shrooms. They're 15,000 gold weaker than you. Remember that.

Unless you fed them beforehand, in which case, that has nothing to do with the strategy, it's just a matter of 'my enemies got to be as strong as me even though they blew tons of gold on Zz'Rot because we fed them.' So that argument is out the window.

But even if you can't fight them, so what? They...get a turret. You could be shoving both other lanes at the same time. They can't quickly move over and spam new Zz'Rots/new mushrooms there. Imagine you're on the team using the 5-zzrot hatchery strategy. How do you react to that? Abandon your portals and desperately try to defend? Dedicate everything to taking the one turret your portals can reach? Remember that you can only use your portal every few minutes or so.

In reality, it probably wouldn't be strong until you were using it to take the base turrets & inhibitor. And even then, 15,000 gold down means the enemies are much, much, much more offensively stacked up than you. Imagine if they all used about that same amount of gold to buy Guardian Angels, even. What chances do you have of not being decimated if they hard-engage on you? What if they poke from afar?

So I disagree with your argument about the portals. But I do sympathize with the feeling that outer turrets are a little bit too weak right now, maybe. At least, I hate how easily some champions towerdive.

But I'd argue that the issue lies with those champions (think: Zed), rather than with the towers themselves.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Oh, I was trying to stay very out of the argument. I haven't even seen that item built in a game yet. My only point was, IF it's OP, it WILL be abused. Count on it.

The Ellimiist1 votes

I built it once on ad malzahar and tbh the things spawned from the portal never reached the tower.

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

Odds are they have Teleport to block that.

If they have teleport then go and take the porals. 3 minute cooldown to put them down.

Major Sparkles5 votes

Problem is that the range on rot portals is not that long. So they may be able to take a tower but they'd have to reposition each time. Just grab a blitzcrank and pull someone out of their blasted bush while they're setting up.

Julius Evola2 votes

Like your idea of testing a pushing comp; this may not go over as well with those who don't play StarCraft.

Your references are good and I'd love to see this "bunker" + "hatchery" if one pushes fast like the "zerg", or slow like a "planetary fortress rush", Lol. Who knows, maybe we will see 5 man grouped pushes very early like Dota, if Riot continues to allow the support mages to dominate in winrates.

Narasimha3 votes

Real men probe rush.

aperson12 votes

It's a fairly expensive item that gives 0 offensive stats. If they all managed to get it and still are somehow pushing towards your turret, you were probably too far behind to comeback anyway.

DisasterSola1 votes

I agree, this is actually a very neat idea for mid-game pushing potential. It wouldnt work though, "the bunkers" would be close enough that AoEs would nuke them.

I do think the portal should be core on anyone who doesnt do a lot of damage to turrets (IE tanks, supports)

darkdill2 votes

You can't AOE nuke Teemo mines. You can only kill them with autoattacks once they're detected.

Portals are also treated as structures, so most AOE spells don't hurt them.

Kuroi861 votes

Velkoz You wish to send more minions to try to take my turret, yet refuse to send a champion to truly offer them any power. I must thank you, you have fed me well without ever coming into my vision.

Caezium1 votes

This is a VERY specific comp that the average player will most likely never face.

But yes in theory they can potentially be overpowered.

darkdill1 votes

And if pro players make it work, what then?

Caezium1 votes

I would expect the counter to this strategy to be a long range AOE mage like Xerath holding the minions back/poking the bunker, Janna to shield turrets keep back engages or Nami to heal and keep back engages. Jax/Irelia split pushing primarily.

But you would have to know what you are against to comp for it.

straight4free1 votes

{quoted}

And if pro players make it work, what then?

It won't work in pro play. The voidlings die very quickly, dedicate 1-2 people to defend and the rest push another lane. When they teleport to go defend, take our their bunker with your full force. Should be very easy and should not take more than a minute and a half, leaving their portals on a long cooldown. With 5 of them, that is a severe lack of offensive stats, punish them for it.

Big Bang Bob1 votes

You noob! What happens if someone has banshees Corki or ghosts Caitlyn? You gotta have detectors and air defence man.

KidSpectre1 votes

I was gonna make a witty remark about ADCs and Zz'rot free farm, but then I looked it up and found out that voidspawn don't grant gold on death. Crud.

7ha7guy7771 votes

they do grant stacks thoughNasus Veigar

Jalkan1 votes

Push another lane.

DrCyanide1 votes

The bunkered in team can't do anything.

Zz'rot's minions only attack minions and towers. Set up your waveclear mage next to the tower they are trying to push and you're immune to anything. 5 extra minions a wave? One spell and they're all dead. The Zz'rot minions aren't that threatening unless the bunkered team tries to build all armor/mr, at which point the bunker itself is weaker.

For extra help maintaining your lane, take Baron, so your waveclearing mage can have stronger minions to help push back (if they even needed the help).

Honestly, this situation is about as likely as a team getting 5 Ohmwreckers. Yeah, it could be a little odd to deal with it, but they had to sink extra gold into a cheese build that probably won't pay off if you step back and think.

The Ellimiist1 votes

The zzrot minions are extremely weak it still wouldn't do anything to have 5 portals.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

they spent a ton of gold and effort on that investment so you should be able to apply pressure elsewhere on the map without losing the position that they are sieging.

AHeroNamedHawke1 votes

They get 1 tower

You run down mid and steamroll their entire base with actual combat stats

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