Why does Zed bring so much more to the table than other assassins?

ApexInTheCircle··5 votes·852 views

I just lost a game to a damn strong team comp. And I'll admit my defeat, but how come zed is able to sacrifice an item slot with randuins become semi tanky and still out-damage a full pen damage built Talon because of his passive % damage increase?

I just can't understand why he has so much freebies with his kit, I'm convinced that if he had his extra damage steroid removed he would be 100% balanced. But as it stands with the rest of his kit it's just overloaded with things that keep him ahead even when he's behind. I mean if you're going to have a nigh resourceless assassin with long range poke, un-punishable ult if he messes up and add free damage ontop of an already amazing passive that allows him to almost never miss cs. There has to be a downside to his kit, I honestly try to look at it critically and see if I can find weaknesses but I just can't find enough to justify him being the way he is. I mean sure you can build a zhonyas and say it counters his ult, but his damage is so damn high he really doesn't need it to delete someone.

I'm not saying he's completely op, but he definitely has an overloaded kit. I believe the power should be shifted into allowing more counterplay instead of having to sit at your turret all damn game trying to play dodge the resourceless zed poke.

Honestly I find it disheartening that my favorite assassin Talon is completely overshadowed(Ha!) by almost every other assassin except Diana If you can really even call her an assassin. But with the current way things are it's just disappointing to see Zed every other game and expect the same outcome everytime.

13 Comments

Scrimshäw3 votes

zed is not resourceless. if he w+q+es you, he will be completely out of energy for at least 8 seconds.

ApexInTheCircle3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Treasure Goblin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=od2nGs8W,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-30T07:35:42.074+0000)

zed is not resourceless. if he w+q+es you, he will be completely out of energy for at least 8 seconds.

True, which would be acceptable if he had a finite resource to deal with. But as it stands that doesn't mean very much when think about how short 8 seconds is.

DrCyanide3 votes

165 energy cost at level 3, so 35 energy remaining.

  • He'd have enough energy for another W in 1 second (18 second cooldown on the ability)
  • He'd have enough energy for another E in 2 seconds (4 second cooldown on the ability)
  • He'd have enough energy for another Q in 4 seconds (6 second cooldown on the ability)

Zed would be capped by his CDR on his next ability, not his energy, as all of them would have enough energy before the cooldown came up. It would take 17 seconds for Zed to get back to full energy, which is still a shorter time than his W's cooldown.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

An exercise in resource management: lv 18 Zed

Zed can spam his weq combo (cost: 125, energy refunded: 80, 6 seconds of cooldown: 60 energy regened) followed by eq combo (cost: 105, 8 more seconds of cooldown: 80 energy regened) back to weq combo etc... for ~1:45 without going ooe thanks to his energy returns on mimiced casts and energy regen.

His energy regen procs on minions so "just dodge it" isn't an option.

Daen1 votes

An exercise in basic logic: lv 18 Zed

  1. EQ is not an efficient combo unless your lane opponent is dumb enough to stand right next to you, the melee assassin.
  2. More importantly, EQ without W doesn't refund any energy.
  3. When Zed is level 18, he shouldn't even really be aiming to proc his energy regen on minion waves.
  4. Your math here is assuming that you never miss an ability, which is a lot harder than you would think. By this logic, Shen has no energy costs because he'll always land his taunt.
AMYS GRAVE1 votes

To clarify, this pattern of spell combos just shows how long zed can go without thinking about his resources, in comparison to other champions 1:45 is absurd. That said there is good reason to use your spells in these particular combinations, see below.

  1. It's great for clearing waves before roaming, you eq in the minion wave and your e clears the wave while your q pokes. Even then you don't have to hit the enemy in order to do something effective as you have zoned them from the wave.

  2. EQ without W doesn't have to refund energy, and i didn't claim that it did. The 80 energy regened in those 8 seconds just happens passively so there is no conceivable way not to get that.

  3. So once zed hits lv 18 he is done split pushing and stops pushing minion waves? hahaha

  4. The energy refund procs on minions, so yes i can land every one. I'm sorry that you have trouble with hitting targets that are mindless and don't move out of the way but that doesn't mean that zed is energy gated.

An exercise in resource management: lv 18 Shen

One spell rotation would include 2 qs a w and an e for a total energy cost of 270 over 8 seconds. 80 energy regened brings that down to 190 so with an energy refund of 40 per enemy champion hit he has to hit 4.75 enemy champions (aka 5 because 4 wont keep his energy up) every time in order to effectively be resourceless. Unless the entire enemy team is lining up shoulder to shoulder immediately adjacent to Shen (in which case something has gone hextechnically wrong) he will still be energy gated. Shen needs the enemy teams cooperation in order to not be gated by energy, while zed gets it off minions.

Leti the Yeti3 votes

holy shit, out of energy for 8 SECONDS.. WAO THATS LIKE.... like... shorter than the duration of my cooldowns... my mana doesnt come back in 8 seconds either lol

D1rtFarmer2 votes

hahaha exactly... they list zeds weaknesses like these arent the weakness of every single champion.

3tyson2 votes

Dodge skilshits

shalec1 votes

The weakness that Zed has is that he's reliant on his ultimate to burst down a target. Death Mark can be completely negated through two items. Talon doesn't have this problem, since his ultimate can't really be removed like Zed's. If you take away Death Mark from Zed, he's forced to use basic attacks and abilities to fight, and when he does this, he'll run out of energy after about 3 Shadow Slashes and be unable to do anything for a couple seconds. Not really sure why Zed got the free %bonus AD steroid on Living Shadow, I guess they wanted to shift his power more into the later stages of the game, so they probably shaved his base damages or ratios to compensate. As far as counterplay goes, I think Zed has enough and more than most assassins. Again, two items turn Death Mark into a gap closer. You also have 3 seconds to react, which is a lot more than most assassins.

I definitely think Zed is strong. I have played him a fair amount since Season 3, but I think he also has enough counterplay to be dealt with and not be too overbearing.

D1rtFarmer1 votes

i know what u mean man... if he wasnt in so many games... i wouldnt care.

Kariu Rena1 votes

lol how did a full build talon lose? Did you use your <1 second >3k dmg burst on a tank? Looking from your game, talon has enough aoe to double kill their backline by himself but you're silver tho cant expect much from shitters

ApexInTheCircle1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Camped by Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=od2nGs8W,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-03-30T16:32:33.768+0000)

lol how did a full build talon lose? Did you use your <1 second >3k dmg burst on a tank? Looking from your game, talon has enough aoe to double kill their backline by himself but you're silver tho cant expect much from shitters

Ouch, that would hurt if it didn't come from a 3 year old keyboard warrior :)

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