Mechanically simple champions must be stronger stat-wise.

Mira Arya Enthe··4 votes·775 views

This season put the nail in the coffin of this long standing argument that "Mechanically challenging champions have to reward more because they are hard."

Look at the pro scene, champions who technically are tankier and do more damage are NOT picked because guess what? They don't have outplay potential. Yes, you deserve a reward for playing hard champions well, but not a numbers reward, the reward IS the mechanics. Mechanically challenging champions are only 'harder' because they have more tools, and more potential to outplay enemies. What makes them harder is also the reward in itself for playing them well. Where as walking balls of stats, see less and less play in higher levels, even if they are stronger numberwise, because they cannot outplay their opponents and bring fewer tools to the table.

As such when a mechanically simple champion DOES manage to get on a mechanically hard champion who slipped up and made a mistake, they need more ability to capitalize on it and punish them for it.

For example, despite that Shyvana has some of the best duelist numbers in the game, and great raw stats. Gragas will always be picked first because he brings tools and mechanics that allow him to outplay, deceive and destroy enemies through skilled play.

This is exemplified by the whole 'devourer' champions thing. They were only played, because if they got on an enemy or could out strategize and out position them, they would destroy other champions and objectives. Even then, they were still not picked as often as people with more tools and mechanics, because the fact is, while Ekko having dashes and weird mechanics makes him hard, those tools already in themselves are an advantage.

Keep in mind, this game is more than a Mortal Kombat twitch fest. It is also a game of strategy, teamwork, numbers and attitude.

15 Comments

Mimy2 votes

Person one: Fucking no skill!

Me: Try an easier champion, you're not ready for that one yet...

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

Person one: Fucking no skill!

Me: Try an easier champion, you're not ready for that one yet...

Mechanically easier champions also tend to be less rewarding, less powerful and unable to capitalize on situations as well. They also require more strategy since they don't have as many chase tools, escape tools and free undo buttons. It is twitch vs decision making. Like in an RTS you can play the macro game or micro game.

Meep Man1 votes

I like people with more micro than macro, although more through having to manage multiple things at once. However, Riot hates that kind of stuff.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

i just play champs i like high skill low skill whatever i dont care... i try to enjoy the game and have fun... but i know i know sadly i know im in the minority on that thought process

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oay5eaBx,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-27T00:31:47.857+0000)

i just play champs i like high skill low skill whatever i dont care... i try to enjoy the game and have fun... but i know i know sadly i know im in the minority on that thought process

I agree. I play Shyvana and Riven, I play Ashe and Syndra. So I see both sides of the story.

Ok sure but why2 votes

Like Lee

He does a shit-ton of damage with full tank, but everyone says he's bad because not everyone is a Chinese nerd

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oay5eaBx,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-27T00:28:37.643+0000)

This season put the nail in the coffin of this long standing argument that "Mechanically challenging champions have to reward more because they are hard."

Look at the pro scene, champions who technically are tankier and do more damage are NOT picked because guess what? They don't have outplay potential. Yes, you deserve a reward for playing hard champions well, but not a numbers reward, the reward IS the mechanics. Mechanically challenging champions are only 'harder' because they have more tools, and more potential to outplay enemies. What makes them harder is also the reward in itself for playing them well. Where as walking balls of stats, see less and less play in higher levels, even if they are stronger numberwise, because they cannot outplay their opponents and bring fewer tools to the table.

As such when a mechanically simple champion DOES manage to get on a mechanically hard champion who slipped up and made a mistake, they need more ability to capitalize on it and punish them for it.

For example, despite that Shyvana has some of the best duelist numbers in the game, and great raw stats. Gragas will always be picked first because he brings tools and mechanics that allow him to outplay, deceive and destroy enemies through skilled play.

This is exemplified by the whole 'devourer' champions thing. They were only played, because if they got on an enemy or could out strategize and out position them, they would destroy other champions and objectives. Even then, they were still not picked as often as people with more tools and mechanics, because the fact is, while Ekko having dashes and weird mechanics makes him hard, those tools already in themselves are an advantage.

Keep in mind, this game is more than a Mortal Kombat twitch fest. It is also a game of strategy, teamwork, numbers and attitude.

Gragas is picked when Shyvana isn't because he actually has good early game ganking pressure and can get by okay without gold.

Shyvana is very gold-reliant and the only pressure she offers is going into the enemy jungle and kicking the shit out of them.

I'm not sure who the hot marksman pick right now is, but Tristana was a big boy pick last season and is piss easy to use, maybe the easiest ADC.

Maokai always finds his way back into pro play and is, you guessed it, very simple and easy.

Pretty sure Graves is used in pro play and he's pretty simple as well.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

Gragas is picked when Shyvana isn't because he actually has good early game ganking pressure and can get by okay without gold.

Shyvana is very gold-reliant and the only pressure she offers is going into the enemy jungle and kicking the shit out of them.

I'm not sure who the hot marksman pick right now is, but Tristana was a big boy pick last season and is piss easy to use, maybe the easiest ADC.

Maokai always finds his way back into pro play and is, you guessed it, very simple and easy.

Pretty sure Graves is used in pro play and he's pretty simple as well.

I am speaking more of our walking balls of stats. Garen, Shyvana, Olaf, Skarner, Nasus, Udyr and the like. They are only picked if they are drastically stronger number wise, even then not as often as champions with more tools.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oay5eaBx,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-09-27T00:38:39.567+0000)

I am speaking more of our walking balls of stats. Garen, Shyvana, Olaf, Skarner, Nasus, Udyr and the like. They are only picked if they are drastically stronger number wise, even then not as often as champions with more tools.

Those champions either have a huge amount of counterplay so significant that to be viable despite that would mean their numbers were outrageously high (like Garen) or have a fundamental lack of counterplay so they're kept relatively weak (Olaf).

They're binary. Champions who actually have good, balanced kits with options are more healthy for the game. Sorry if this bothers you.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

Those champions either have a huge amount of counterplay so significant that to be viable despite that would mean their numbers were outrageously high (like Garen) or have a fundamental lack of counterplay so they're kept relatively weak (Olaf).

They're binary. Champions who actually have good, balanced kits with options are more healthy for the game. Sorry if this bothers you.

Funny, because I am pretty sure more balance complaints over the years have been about champions like Fizz, Yasuo, Azir, Lee Sin, Irelia and such when they were in their primes.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oay5eaBx,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2016-09-27T01:25:58.581+0000)

Funny, because I am pretty sure more balance complaints over the years have been about champions like Fizz, Yasuo, Azir, Lee Sin, Irelia and such when they were in their primes.

First of all, are you under the impression that Fizz and Irelia are high skillcap? They're very mechanically simple.

Second of all, Azir is complained about because when he's viable he's bar none THE best mid laner in the game in pro play or high elo.

Yasuo is merely "pretty good" right now, though Lee Sin is sort of bad. Azir has a kit that can't be allowed to be strong because it's the perfect mid lane mage kit. The fact that so much has been taken AWAY from it, like the knock-up on his E, is insane.

Third of all, who gives a shit about balance complaints? The League community on these boards are subhuman degenerate morons.

Your refutation of my argument isn't one. You just said "well way more people complain about x", ignoring that what stupid idiots complain about doesn't fucking matter.

afk soon btw1 votes

I'm not sure who the hot marksman pick right now is, but Tristana was a big boy pick last season and is piss easy to use, maybe the easiest ADC.

100 % sure she will be picked again this Season

MorrisseyMarr1 votes

Yeah idk that I want pure walking ball of stats champions to be so strong as to be competitively viable

is that not what juggernauts are

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

me as Galio support ... 1-7-20 my adc Vayne 4-14-7

hmm Galio pretty simply champ mechanically

Vayne tends to be a harder champ to master mechanically

end of game loss.... 3 vs 5s are hard , more so when the other to players are still actually their and dying...

Woodakoodashooda1 votes

TL;DR

No, seriously, I didn't read paragraphs of you explaining your opinion. I yawned, but I didn't read it.

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