Nerf Zed

[{quoted}](name=Hot LeBlanc Yuri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oaPo2LMH,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-20T22:06:21.288+0000)

lmao, did I hit a soft spot there buddy? Sorry, triggering you wasnt my intention.

Good luck in your silver 4 games tho. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Thanks, it's really fun stomping players like you on my smurf :)

{quoted}

And it had to be shifted, DPS assassin does not work.

Yes thats true, you can to a degree guess what anyone will do with sufficient experience, however its a question of being able to do anything about it.

And unfortunately for Zed his enemies have plenty of options, due to his ult being the way it is.

Not really, because all 5 will not be a threat to the backline, rather usually its only zed and maybe one more than dives in.

What made him strong was the ability to spank almost anyone 1v1 until they got the "lol no" items, or kill any marksman whenever he felt like it pre mercurial.

Those times have changed greatly, phantom dancer, overheal, resolve, more defensive abilities like Xayah R and whatever else that just dumpsters him.

Problem is that Zed with a lower W cooldown still cant fight those who can punish him for engaging on him, instead he just shoves the wave hard then goes roaming and the formula of "can i snowball mid or kill enemy botlane to win" once again applies.

Becoming a cold pile of crap just because he couldnt end quickly enough or his enemy had enough build diversity to get his counter item early feels like a pretty shitty situation.

You cant compare a mage to a assassin, because a mage functions mainly in teamfights.

Their job will be to unload either on the engaging enemy tank or as followup for their own engaging tank while also providing poke from a high distance, doesnt matter if the enemy knows what´s going on if they have 0 options for doing anything about it.

And that is the problem, Morgana got nerfed for the exact same reason.

Use W, shove wave, go do whatever they want, avoid interaction with opponent who is difficult.

Was useless even before in high elo, because good botlaners will escape instantly when they hear that he is missing so he never got any good roams off unless he luckily found a vulnerable jungler.

If he runs out of a bush+his R then he had 4 runs of invisibility to juke and run around you, and he can afford to wait out a zhonya.

Comparing mages with assassins is pointless due to different jobs.

And Zed mains are ever so fond of saying that Zed is too weak and in need of help quoting stylish.

Even when the man had a good winrate and Zed had 55% in masters at the time.

It was just proven that he cant have less though, because he just shoves and roams which is oppressive and OP in lower elo but still useless in high elo.

Will never see proplay as he is now unless OP.

Problem with his W is that it is too powerful, it is long range harass+waveclear+mobility+damage booster all in one spell.

It wrecks his powerbudget so damn hard its not even funny.

I dont mind the textwalls but i seriously dont think its ever possible for him to be generally "good" in high elo without feeling like a absolutely monster to everyone else.

As long as he relies on that ult of his and roaming as his keys to success he can never be good, pro´s can easily deal with both of those and Riot are enforcing a ban on abilities and setups that let a champion avoid interaction and just farm.

Morgana and Lissandra were both his for those.

I can see your points, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be. The game hasn't changed that much, and he once was a contested pick without being OP. There were always ways to deny him, and imo QSS was the worst one, worse than anything that exists now. Mostly it's just that some items got stronger, some got weaker and some were added, but a little bit polishing could put him into a fine place again.

And I don't think Morgana and Lissadra are good examples because you just want to survive lane with them without interacting with the opponent, while as Zed you want exactly that interaction. The biggest problem I see people having with him is that he claps you on lane, and not that he doesn't interact with you. The frustration against him comes from that, and not from his roams usually. And it should always be a team effort to get some wards deep in the River if the enemies have an Assassin so you can react to his roams if he tries them.

It's not comparable to Morg and Liss as they don't want to roam but just farm early without wanting to interact with anything early, and just want to scale, and it became a problem because you couldn't punish them. An Assassin who looks for interaction, either on lane or by roaming is not comparable to that.

A lower W CD would be fine, I mean, he is an Assassin, he should have the tools to roam and react to skirmishes early. For that, he should pay with an absolute shit late game.

I think it's not a problem or feels shitty that you are useless once a certain point in the game has passed. You had your strong early and mid to make things happen. Ofc there still should be some things you should be able to do, but these are minimal. A late game Zed shouldn't be much of a threat anymore, but a early game Zed should make things happen, that's why I think a lower W CD is fine.

Also, I don't really agree that pros have ways to easily deal with roaming. In pro play, it's all about the efforts of clearing and setting up vision and then going for an eventual roam or 4 man gank. If they have no vision, they would have to leave CS everytime the enemy could gank them, and they can't afford that.

It happens very often in pro play that someone was overextended and ganked by the enemy mid and jng simply because he didn't catch him leaving the lane or taking the risk because the enemy team did set it up correctly. It's all about the mid laner having the tools to do so, and Zed should be an excellent roamer early.

So I'm completely fine with him having a horrible late if he has an excellent early for it, it's as an Assassin should be, and as how his kit functions, the imo correct way to balance him. He should work in the way that he has an strong early and tools to make things happen to set up for a good mid game before heavily falling off, but if he fails to make anything happen or fucks up he should have a way harder mid game that he would have to play extremely well to become a factor again, or else be out of the game from that point.

I believe in general that giving champions clear time windows in the game when they are a heavy threat and when they aren't is a good way of balance, as you know exactly as an enemy where you should have your priorities at a certain point of the game.

To add on that, a fatal mistake on Zed was adding that Ult passive that turned him into a late game carry, and keeping it like that for 2 and a half years. His late is now way weaker again, but I believe that many people still have in mind that he is still very strong late game, which he isn't anymore as he lost like 50 AD. But from experience over the last 2 years you now think that that is the case and he will fuck you up late. It needs a few patches to adapt to that again. It even needed a few games for me on him to reconsider his power spikes as it felt entirely different again, and I guess this process will be much slower when you just play against him, especially when he was banned in every second game.

The problem was that the change came suddenly, even if he once was exactly like now. An early game carry with a shit late, like he should be.

So I think letting people adapt to the power shift is the best action to take for now, but sooner or later he needs to be put into a decent spot again without overbuffing him, but giving him that strong early game.