Dont. Buff. Pyke.

Hot LeBlanc Yuri·Jul 22, 2019·114 votes·18,504 views

Please, do not fucking buff pyke in any way. He doesnt need it, if anything he needs to be toned-down. He's way too safe for a assassin extreamly high reward with pretty much no risk since he has a instant invis + movement speed a stun-dash with a fucked hitbox, instant health regen, so you cant even poke him down in lane or ever chase him. His hook flings you behind him AND slows....? for some fucking reason, this is 100% unneeded, just let him hook towards, as if his dash was hard to hit? and fianlly the most fucked up aility, the free execute with a even more fucked up hitbox, even less risk and soon EVEN MORE reward, honestly why does pyke get a free execute without needed to do any work before, if you're under 50% hp in lane you're just fucking dead. Nothing you can do.

71 Comments

Mrs QtpieJul 22, 201922 votes

The fact that, as it stands, this is a contentious post is just beyond me.

HotarµJul 22, 201921 votes

First off, I'm assuming this post was sparked by your last game when the enemy Pyke went 7/1/5 in a 16 minute game. Annie isn't that strong of a choice into Pyke to begin with since she can't provide her team with the tools to survive against him, atleast in the early game. You also have no armor, no bonus health, and the only armor on your entire team was in the form of Ninja Tabis on both Garen and Xin Zhao. The only way you would have made that pick work is if you got to mid or late game and locked Pyke down.

Secondly, Pyke dies within a second of being focused and your team had the tools to shut him down late game if you had played safe early. Sivir in particular is a good pick into Pyke since her spellshield can completely stop his ultimate at any point in the game.

He's way too safe for a assassin

No, he's not.

since he has a instant invis + movement speed

His W has a large indicator and detection radius. If Pyke's E is down, he's not getting away from you with just his W alone.

a stun-dash with a fucked hitbox

His E much like his Q, W, and ultimate, is very telegraphed and can be dodged with ease. The hitbox isn't that bad.

instant health regen,

Doesn't activate while in vision, meaning a few wards will shut his regeneration down entirely.

so you cant even poke him down in lane or ever chase him.

If you can't consistently lock Pyke down with hard CC, poke his ADC. Don't poke him.

He offers no reliable utility or defensive options to his team, the only thing he has is aggressive CC options. If you poke his ADC down, they'll be forced to back early, miss CS, and you'll win all ins. Pyke is only as strong as his ADC unless he can get amazing roams off.

His hook flinges you behind him AND slows....? for some fucking reason, this is 100% unneeded, just let him hook towards, as if his dash was hard to him?

His hook only flings you behind him if you're at point blank distance. His Q has a slow on it to allow followup through his E and Ultimate.

the free execute with even more fucked up hitboxes, even less risk and soon EVEN MORE reward, honestly why does pyke get a free execute without needed to do any work before, if you're under 50% hp in lane you're just fucking dead. Nothing you can do.

You can stop it entirely with a dash, blink, untargetability, stasis, MS boost, or well-timed heal. Don't believe me? Here's a list of champions that can shut Pyke's ultimate down at any point in the game.

Any heal can bring his target out of the ultimate threshold. +

Any dash can evade it.

Any blink can evade it.

Any stasis can stop it. +

Any untargetability can stop it.

Spellshields can stop it. +

Revivals/undying spells can stop it.

Even certain MS boosts are enough to straight up walk out of his ultimate. + +

ihateyouallmutedJul 23, 201954 votes

[deleted]

HotarµJul 23, 20195 votes

1 - It's sad that's all you took away from this post.

2 - I said the stasis effect can stop the ult, if Pyke is slow to react or isn't in range for the initial cast and has to walk to his target, he can miss it.

SillaeJul 23, 201942 votes

{quoted}

1 - It's sad that's all you took away from this post.

2 - I said the stasis effect can stop the ult, if Pyke is slow to react or isn't in range for the initial cast and has to walk to his target, he can miss it.

So the argument is "If pyke fucks up you don't die" well damn glad we got good counterplay.

HotarµJul 23, 20196 votes

So the argument is "If pyke fucks up you don't die" well damn glad we got good counterplay.

There is well over ONE HUNDRED different options listed in that comment and instead of looking at them, you chose to focus on that one.

God, balance discussion on this platform is such a joke sometimes.

SillaeJul 23, 201929 votes

His W's "large detection radius" is helped by the fact he gets a gigantic fucking speed boost and heal.

His "telegraphed and dodged with ease" abilities are helped that he can dash directly onto you from fucking stealth, stun (which readjusts with his position, so his increased MS means he can follow any direction), hook, execute.

A fucking assassin shouldn't have sustain, let alone the stupid 90% of all damage dealt to him. He already takes Doran's Shield why does he have that r%%%%%ed sustain?

Also funny how you list completely unviable heals when you're ignoring that the target he is on is stunlocked and pulled away from their team.

In what world is Fiddle going to be able to use drain before he's executed?

And "have a dash" isn't good counterplay.

Also lol at "only aggressive cc" as if Pyke isn't using his dash->stun to change his mind when he fucks up so he can't be followed.

But no, you're right the champ with high sustain, damage, movement speed, dashes, cc, gold generation for team (and himself now), repeatable execute of a flat amount (he can fucking kill supports and adcs from half health), and stealth is A-OK.

IainG10Jul 23, 20192 votes

As a sometimes Pyke player, if I see a Fiddle I'm gonna save Q for when he drains, because then he can either move and break the channel, or not move and die to burst.....

Gregorovic08Jul 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

His W's "large detection radius" is helped by the fact he gets a gigantic fucking speed boost and heal.

His "telegraphed and dodged with ease" abilities are helped that he can dash directly onto you from fucking stealth, stun (which readjusts with his position, so his increased MS means he can follow any direction), hook, execute.

A fucking assassin shouldn't have sustain, let alone the stupid 90% of all damage dealt to him. He already takes Doran's Shield why does he have that r%%%%%ed sustain?

Also funny how you list completely unviable heals when you're ignoring that the target he is on is stunlocked and pulled away from their team.

In what world is Fiddle going to be able to use drain before he's executed?

And "have a dash" isn't good counterplay.

Also lol at "only aggressive cc" as if Pyke isn't using his dash->stun to change his mind when he fucks up so he can't be followed.

But no, you're right the champ with high sustain, damage, movement speed, dashes, cc, gold generation for team (and himself now), repeatable execute of a flat amount (he can fucking kill supports and adcs from half health), and stealth is A-OK.

When is Pyke taking Doran's Shield? Also, is he not more of a support than an assassin? I also think his damage is telegraphed and his burst combo is slow, meaning there are things you can do as nearly any champion to try to outplay him.

SillaeJul 24, 20191 votes

Sorry, I didn't mean Doran's Shield I meant Relic Shield lol

ﬂooJul 23, 201911 votes

No, he's not.

Pyke's the safest champ in the game. Period. No other champ can disengage as easy as him.

W

The probelm isn't his indication radius, it's the ms steriod. He does get away, even if he's in range of your adc, you can't follow up with him, unless his positioning is garbage.

E

Again missing the point. His E makes him way too safe. How do you follow an uncontidional dash that stuns in it's path with a delay. Despite the hitbox being as big as a truck. It's not like he just stands still after he casts it.

R

So in that list you have an entirety of 8 frequently used supports who can "heal you above threshold". Out of which Janna, Taric and Bard are so low it's negligible, considering most Pykes also run ignite. For that matter Rakan would be part of this list, but also with a minimal heal. 2 ADCs and supps who can dash out of danger, would have to still have their escapes ready for this part (which is unlikely for Braum or Lucian/Vayne. Rakan being the 4th). GA which nobody ever builds in laning phase, same as stopwatch. Bard ult has about 3 times the cast time of Pyke's ult idk why you even included that one. Xayah with her ult and Sivir's spellshield. Xayah is reasonable, but why would Sivir save her E for the last instance of the fight. If she get's cc'd in any way by Pyke she's already doomed to die, spellshielding his ult or not. MS steroids of BoS are NOT enough to step out of his ult, Nami and Sivir R Idk but questionable.

Why would you list so many unrelated things for Pyke's ult if his main targets are botlane champions? As soon as laning phase ends, he's either beyond reach for a comeback thanks to his new gold mechanic or so far behind his only use is to hook people out of position.

Now I don't have much of a problem with Pyke tbh, but people like you who make him seem like such an easy to deal with champion because they describe every part of him as weak are just beyond my understanding. He's absolute cancer to deal with, but managable. Why in the fuck would the give him twice the gold for ult executions, which ALREADY give bonus gold? Revert that unnecessary buff, sololane Pyke was dealt with without hurting support Pyke in the slightest.

VıvıdJul 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Pyke's the safest champ in the game. Period. No other champ can disengage as easy as him.

The probelm isn't his indication radius, it's the ms steriod. He does get away, even if he's in range of your adc, you can't follow up with him, unless his positioning is garbage.

Again missing the point. His E makes him way too safe. How do you follow an uncontidional dash that stuns in it's path with a delay. Despite the hitbox being as big as a truck. It's not like he just stands still after he casts it.

So in that list you have an entirety of 8 frequently used supports who can "heal you above threshold". Out of which Janna, Taric and Bard are so low it's negligible, considering most Pykes also run ignite. For that matter Rakan would be part of this list, but also with a minimal heal. 2 ADCs and supps who can dash out of danger, would have to still have their escapes ready for this part (which is unlikely for Braum or Lucian/Vayne. Rakan being the 4th). GA which nobody ever builds in laning phase, same as stopwatch. Bard ult has about 3 times the cast time of Pyke's ult idk why you even included that one. Xayah with her ult and Sivir's spellshield. Xayah is reasonable, but why would Sivir save her E for the last instance of the fight. If she get's cc'd in any way by Pyke she's already doomed to die, spellshielding his ult or not. MS steroids of BoS are NOT enough to step out of his ult, Nami and Sivir R Idk but questionable.

Why would you list so many unrelated things for Pyke's ult if his main targets are botlane champions? As soon as laning phase ends, he's either beyond reach for a comeback thanks to his new gold mechanic or so far behind his only use is to hook people out of position.

Now I don't have much of a problem with Pyke tbh, but people like you who make him seem like such an easy to deal with champion because they describe every part of him as weak are just beyond my understanding. He's absolute cancer to deal with, but managable. Why in the fuck would the give him twice the gold for ult executions, which ALREADY give bonus gold? Revert that unnecessary buff, sololane Pyke was dealt with without hurting support Pyke in the slightest.

did you... really just say pyke is the SAFEST champion in the game? hes the safest? the most, safe, unrisky, extremely easy to play safe champion in the entire game? no fucking way, how delusional are people in your elo? W-WHAT

ﬂooJul 23, 20195 votes

{quoted}

did you... really just say pyke is the SAFEST champion in the game? hes the safest? the most, safe, unrisky, extremely easy to play safe champion in the entire game? no fucking way, how delusional are people in your elo? W-WHAT

Which other champ has as many escape and survive mechanics as Pyke? Also I spoke of safest, not easiest to play. Calling me delusional while listing any champ in the game with a dash to prove Pyke's ult is easy to dodge. And fucking Bard ult...

HilsunJul 23, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Which other champ has as many escape and survive mechanics as Pyke? Also I spoke of safest, not easiest to play.

I think there are a lot, but I'll just point out the most egregious kits for escaping/surviving:

Ahri = Three dashes. Q gives large movement speed buff. E to hard CC pursuers.

Azir = Very long dash if skilled enough to pull it off. Literally pushes away an entire group of pursuers if desired. Can construct a turret.

Kayn = Literally walks through walls; amplified speed/length in Assassin form with heightened CDR. His q-dash is on a very short CD. Not to mention in Rhaast form he gains AoE knockup. Ult makes him untargetable for a free evasion.

Leblanc = Can double dash on a short CD and return to the point of origin to confound even skilled veteran players. Has a long-range snare. Passive invisibility+clone for tricky escapes.

Qiyana = I dunno if you've seen this champ but between her W being a short dash, her E being a long dash to a target, and her Q with bush empowerment invisibility, she is absurdly difficult to lock down. And if you do get on her she can just ult you away.

Rakan = Free dash, AoE knockup, dash to allies, taunt + movespeed buff—just about all of his abilities are for escaping/surviving.

Riven = Riven requires no explanation

Vayne = Condemn + (ult + q) (go watch highlight reels of good Vayne players surviving 1 v 3+

Again, I think there are a LOT more champs that fit into the "has as many escape/survive abilities as Pyke" but I will leave you with the definitive worst offender in the game in terms of escaping from anything if played well: summoner 4 Talon

ﬂooJul 23, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I think there are a lot, but I'll just point out the most egregious kits for escaping/surviving:

= Three dashes. Q gives large movement speed buff. E to hard CC pursuers.

= Very long dash if skilled enough to pull it off. Literally pushes away an entire group of pursuers if desired. Can construct a turret.

= Literally walks through walls; amplified speed/length in Assassin form with heightened CDR. His q-dash is on a very short CD. Not to mention in Rhaast form he gains AoE knockup. Ult makes him untargetable for a free evasion.

= Can double dash on a short CD and return to the point of origin to confound even skilled veteran players. Has a long-range snare. Passive invisibility+clone for tricky escapes.

= I dunno if you've seen this champ but between her W being a short dash, her E being a long dash to a target, and her Q with bush empowerment invisibility, she is absurdly difficult to lock down. And if you do get on her she can just ult you away.

= Free dash, AoE knockup, dash to allies, taunt + movespeed buff—just about all of his abilities are for escaping/surviving.

= Riven requires no explanation

= Condemn + (ult + q) (go watch highlight reels of good Vayne players surviving 1 v 3+

Again, I think there are a LOT more champs that fit into the "has as many escape/survive abilities as Pyke" but I will leave you with the definitive worst offender in the game in terms of escaping from anything if played well:

Ahri 3 short range dashes, while mobile, skillshot reliant. Granted she can turn pretty hard if she doesn hit her E.

Azir Can be blocked by simply standing in his way, also only measure of movement.

Kayn One of the 4 most cancer mobilities imo, however his can be interrupted easily by any dmg or him messing up.

Leblanc Probably one of the safest, true.

Qiyana Haven't played with or against her enough to tell but her dashes are very short ranged and one requires a target iirc? Could be wrong, doesn't have survivability though.

Rakan His W has a large cd, also locks him down in place shortly. E is short ranged, requires allies nearby. Isn't as slippery by miles.

Riven Other cancer mobility. Her not having a resource or cds at all, make her very annoying to follow. Would not consider her more safe than Pyke still.

Vayne No. Her Q is a joke of an escape, requires auto to be on short cd which puts her back into a fight. Passive useless in escape as well, R invisibility too. E while good, single targetted.

Talon Is probably on the same level as Pyke in terms of mobility. Lacks survivability.

Now Pyke . The fact that his E has a follow up stun in delay is one thing that makes him impossible to catch. It doesn't even have a noteworthy cd, and get's him in range to be invis in W. That is also the second part that makes him as slippery. Huge ms steriod combined with stealth. And if that wasn't enough he heals back a great margin of the health he lost in any fight. You can't tell me any champ is safer than Pyke. Too much mobility paired with heavy regen and uncondicional cc. (That doesn't even factor in his R dash which is technically also a way for him to move, but extremly situational to use)

HilsunJul 24, 20191 votes

We must have very different interpretations of the term "survivability."

If Talon can literally jump over any wall in the game on a 0 second CD, I would consider that incredible survivability, as it allows him to SURVIVE otherwise impossible situations for other champs; I don't see how being able to jump out of harm's reach no matter where he is on the map is not on par with Pyke's survivability. Same goes for Riven: she ultimately has 4 dashes—one of them grants her a shield, one can hop over short walls; none of them require a resource. She also has a brief AoE stun which gives her an opening to start her dash-fest and SURVIVE situations she has no business surviving in.

If you don't think Qiyana's bush-empowered Q allows for more absurd survivability than Pyke, then I can only assume you are not viewing each champ's kit and assess their survivability in an objective manner. https://livestream.clips.gg/FrigidDeliciousShrimpTBTacoRight I don't think a Pyke would have survived this.

I have responses to all the points you mentioned about the champs I pointed out, but I digress. Having a delayed stun follow up on you after dashing is good for escaping, yes, I agree with that; I do not agree that it is the impossible-to-deal-with mechanic that it's being painted as in this thread. The hitbox is fairly wide, but it's not impossible to sidestep. 15 seconds is a long CD, too; if he uses it to engage, he's pretty much done for if the engage goes poorly. Someone else has already pointed out that, sure, if Pyke gets mondo-fed he can basically own the map, but there's a big handful of other champs like that, too. The trickier a champ is to pin down, the more impossible it feels to deal with one that is fed.

The biggest point to take away from this discussion is: don't play to his strengths. He's really good at escaping? Don't all-in engage without lots of lockdown and knowledge of your damage. He's really good at engaging if he lands a q? Play cautiously when it's off CD. I have found the most success not necessarily with lock-down champs, but with range and poke + wards. He doesn't want to miss exp, so keep the lane bushes warded and he can't even use his heal. Poke him and his ADC down; I find Karma a particularly good counter due to the high poke as well as the large shields+movespeed to either disengage or deny the ult execute and reset. He doesn't have much HP so even with aftershock he is pretty squishy, especially since he doesn't build resistances to buff that rune anyway. Take advantage of his long cooldowns; if he uses W to engage, he can't use it again for ~12 seconds. Abuse him for using it aggressively after you play safe to avoid being caught by the q. If he uses E to escape, he can't safely get close for another ~15 seconds. Get aggressive in this time—back off when it's back up. This is how all of League of Legends is played—knowledge of champions (both yours and your enemies') and working around cooldowns. Hopefully that helps!

ﬂooJul 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

We must have very different interpretations of the term "survivability."

If Talon can literally jump over any wall in the game on a 0 second CD, I would consider that incredible survivability, as it allows him to SURVIVE otherwise impossible situations for other champs; I don't see how being able to jump out of harm's reach no matter where he is on the map is not on par with Pyke's survivability. Same goes for Riven: she ultimately has 4 dashes—one of them grants her a shield, one can hop over short walls; none of them require a resource. She also has a brief AoE stun which gives her an opening to start her dash-fest and SURVIVE situations she has no business surviving in.

If you don't think Qiyana's bush-empowered Q allows for more absurd survivability than Pyke, then I can only assume you are not viewing each champ's kit and assess their survivability in an objective manner. https://livestream.clips.gg/FrigidDeliciousShrimpTBTacoRight I don't think a Pyke would have survived this.

I have responses to all the points you mentioned about the champs I pointed out, but I digress. Having a delayed stun follow up on you after dashing is good for escaping, yes, I agree with that; I do not agree that it is the impossible-to-deal-with mechanic that it's being painted as in this thread. The hitbox is fairly wide, but it's not impossible to sidestep. 15 seconds is a long CD, too; if he uses it to engage, he's pretty much done for if the engage goes poorly. Someone else has already pointed out that, sure, if Pyke gets mondo-fed he can basically own the map, but there's a big handful of other champs like that, too. The trickier a champ is to pin down, the more impossible it feels to deal with one that is fed.

The biggest point to take away from this discussion is: don't play to his strengths. He's really good at escaping? Don't all-in engage without lots of lockdown and knowledge of your damage. He's really good at engaging if he lands a q? Play cautiously when it's off CD. I have found the most success not necessarily with lock-down champs, but with range and poke + wards. He doesn't want to miss exp, so keep the lane bushes warded and he can't even use his heal. Poke him and his ADC down; I find Karma a particularly good counter due to the high poke as well as the large shields+movespeed to either disengage or deny the ult execute and reset. He doesn't have much HP so even with aftershock he is pretty squishy, especially since he doesn't build resistances to buff that rune anyway. Take advantage of his long cooldowns; if he uses W to engage, he can't use it again for ~12 seconds. Abuse him for using it aggressively after you play safe to avoid being caught by the q. If he uses E to escape, he can't safely get close for another ~15 seconds. Get aggressive in this time—back off when it's back up. This is how all of League of Legends is played—knowledge of champions (both yours and your enemies') and working around cooldowns. Hopefully that helps!

The term survivability probably includes escaping immediate threat, yes. What I meant is not just escaping damage but also preventing it, as in Pyke's passive. Talon has more mobility, however he's blocked off by walls he previously used and doesn't have any cc to prevent follow ups. But he is pretty safe, no doubt. Same goes for Riven. Her W requires her to be close to enemies and is rather short. Would still consider Pyke superior.

As for that clip, if you don't think Pyke could've survived this, then what kind of Pykes do you play with/against? Even though Qiyana has 2 wards up, he plays very aggressively, that one's on him first. Now if you would just replace the champ in that exact scenario, I don't see how it would be hard for Pyke to wait for their respective stuns and simply dash south to make them both sidestep or get stunned. Either way they would be in a bad position to follow, Rene with 1 available dash and no further damage, Pantheon without mobility enitrely. Pyke activates W and outruns both of them while healing back up. He wouldn't even need to do all the brush play and simply brute force back to his turret.

Now thanks for all your advice on how to play against Pyke. That's not the topic though, I can deal with him most of the time. The point was simply to make clear that Pyke is the safest champ in the game, nothing else.

LatetotheRaceJul 23, 20194 votes

"First off, I'm assuming this post was sparked by your last game" I'm gonna stop you right there, this makes you a hilarious and pretentious jerk. Even if EVEN IF, this sparked his inspiration for this post, it's actually the final straw that broke the camels back and not "the only reason he would want a champions nerf!"

I personally believe that Riven needs to have several power shifts and a mechanic removal, but it's not because I lost a game last night, but because I've played against her 200 times in the last season. sooooooo.

Btw, your post is a joke, your points about Pyke are flat-out wrong.

He's way too safe for a assassin No, he's not.

Yes he is. He has a substantial amount of CC and mobility along with an "I don't want to lose this fight" button. Which as an assassin I would argue is disgusting and entirely too safe.

a stun-dash with a fucked hitbox His E much like his Q, W, and ultimate, is very telegraphed and can be dodged with ease. The hitbox isn't that bad.

The hitbox on his E is a good 25% wider than his model on both sides, and yes it can be dodged like all skillshots, but unless you burn flash or a substantial mobility ability he should hit you with it. (provided he isn't just stupid)

instant health regen, Doesn't activate while in vision, meaning a few wards will shut his regeneration down entirely.

You do understand his W right? Most of the time he even doesn't need to engage with his W thanks to item 3117 item 3142 or even just land his Q.

If you can't consistently lock Pyke down with hard CC, poke his ADC. Don't poke him.

Not a lot of bottom lanes have consistent enough CC to lock down pyke, dunno which meta you're in atm. And if you attempt to poke his ADC he will focus you down instead, he is and assassin first and foremost regardless of his support role. HE fucking hurts.

His hook only flings you behind him if you're at point blank distance. His Q has a slow on it to allow followup through his E and Ultimate.

The slow is handholdy which is counter intuitive for a "high skill assassin." It's not defend-able and half decent E timing removes the need for help with setting it up, as such, handholdy.

I just... what the hell is this last portion here? I UGH WELL SEE YOU CAN INVALIDATE THIS EXECUTE!!! JUST NUMBERS COUNTER IT. Are you serious? Like really serious? What a joke man. Again, you are playing against other human beings here, so 90% of those champion interactions are meaningless. Finally you mentioned a total of what, 3 ADCs?, and half a dozen supports, half of which are just heal slaves. (Imagine if he went after and killed the healing support first or waited until they pop their shield and kill the other. hmm that'd be a shame.)

You're arguing a terrible point and pretty everything you said was worthless and either falls into the "duh" or the "useless information" categories. Let's not do this again, thanks.

HilsunJul 23, 20192 votes

{quoted} Not a lot of bottom lanes have consistent enough CC to lock down pyke

Uh Alistar what Galio did Janna I Leona just Lulu read Lux with Rakan my Taric own Fiddlesticks eyes.

LatetotheRaceJul 24, 20191 votes

Alright allow me to clarify, this is on me. Most meta lanes are phasing out CC heavy champions and especially tank supports for more kill lane/mage supports. But yes there quite a few potential supports that can lock him down but they're either unplayed like Alistar Galio or from niche/fringe like Taric Fiddlesticks .

TwoHeadedFreakJul 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Alright allow me to clarify, this is on me. Most meta lanes are phasing out CC heavy champions and especially tank supports for more kill lane/mage supports. But yes there quite a few potential supports that can lock him down but they're either unplayed like or from niche/fringe like .

Don't forget Lux, Morgana, Annie and Nautilus. Those four plus the ones you listed are the bane of a Pyke mains existence. Add TF mid and you'll smash Pyke easily.

Tr4shB4NSYST3MJul 23, 201917 votes

Logged in to upvote you, pyke was a mistake

Baby GhoulJul 23, 201911 votes

We can all ~~mostly~~ agree on one thing.

Pyke is BS in his current state.

I like to think that I'm an open minded person, but I just can't take anyone seriously who says he's a balanced champion. He ain't. In many ways he's the perfect symbol for everything that has gone wrong with this game in the past couple of years.

Enjoying playing him does not mean he is balanced and just because you don't win every single game or encounter with him doesn't mean he's balanced either.

Spiced RumJul 23, 20198 votes

Pyke has earned a spot on my perma ban list til they can gut this abomination.

Regen, hook, dash, stun, execute ult, snow ball maniac, invisibility... like people complain about Irelia and Akali but this guy has an overloaded kit just like them two. Only difference is they are sitting at below 48% win rates while this monster is 50%+

huhndogJul 23, 20196 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spiced Rum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gwAd5T7x,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2019-07-23T12:06:32.374+0000)

has earned a spot on my perma ban list til they can gut this abomination.

Regen, hook, dash, stun, execute ult, snow ball maniac, invisibility... like people complain about Irelia and Akali but this guy has an overloaded kit just like them two. Only difference is they are sitting at below 48% win rates while this monster is 50%+

They like that cause they got nerfed. Bet its going to happen the patch after the project skins just so they can get that money.

Can't wait [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

cabbysbJul 23, 20197 votes

Pyke is a "support"

LOL

EleshakaiJul 23, 20197 votes

Pyke ALWAYS needs nerfs. Even if he has a 0% play rate... I'd still say nerf the bugger.

InvestaJul 23, 20195 votes

Frustrations with Pyke balance wise and pretty understandable. Hyperbole can get tossed around, but he is extremely oppressive and anti-fun to play against. The argument isn't ever that he has no weaknesses, but that they are not comparable to his insane strengths, and his weaknesses are much more manageable especially if the player behind the wheel is remotely competent.

His kit is staggeringly overloaded. He has a number of mechanics that many agree are just plain infuriating to play against, as if Riot were memeing in the design phase, seeing how much they can put onto a single champion. Then they called him a support, as his ult roughly doubles kill gold and gives it to his carry.

His hook is one of the lowest cooldown hooks in the game, while maintaining significantly more strength and utility despite it. You can charge it while being slightly slowed, are able to throw it in virtually any direction at will, its hitbox feels janky due to it being a triangle and still having a box (though hitboxes are named that way for a reason), and deals non-negligible amounts of damage.

His W gives him a substantial movespeed buff (that scales with lethality for some reason) as well as camouflage. Circles appear underneath you when he is near, which only serves to perpetually zone his opponents as you cannot take the risk of getting close enough to see him and punish, especially as he can instantly dash and stun you or begin his hook charge up, which gains an advantage from stealth due to human reaction time.

His E is his dash stun (the 1.25s duration which also scales with lethality?), a high damage, decently long stun time ability that also enables him to close the gap. This move does so much, on just a 15 second flat cooldown.

Then you have his Ult, a true damage (though because it executes this really doesn't matter), %health execute, where the health necessary to execute scales with both his bonus AD and his lethality. It also blinks him to the center if it is successful, and it resets per kill. I can't tell you how many pentakills I've seen gotten just from smashing the R key onto a team. His ult has the same problems Darius ult used to, where it gave so much flexibility in usage that they had to significantly tone back his reset. I'm just waiting for when they do the same to Pyke, as its degenerate nature makes Darius R even in its heyday, look like Taliyah ult.

His passive enables him to do much of the bullshit he does. It makes it so he cannot get bonus health from items, which you think would be crippling on a squishy, but he hardly needs it. His base health growth is already pretty good, and bonus health is converted to AD anyway, making him even stronger in killing people. Honestly, this is strong on its own, and would be a fine passive.

But no, he also needs to drastically heal back 60% of his max health every time he is damaged merely by going into a bush or using his W. As, whenever he is out of enemy sight, he heals twice as fast as Garen for up top 60% of his max health. It does depend on the damage he takes, but like a Saiyan, the closer to death he gets, the more the heal will do. This health restore scales off of 800% of his bonus AD, so a Pyke with just a couple of items will always restore over half his health when heavily damaged.

I feel he suffers from the same issues as Tahm Kench does: overloaded kit that is difficult to balance around multiple roles. Both champs were designed with the support role in mind, while bringing very powerful tools to the table to enable them to do so. Unfortunately, their tools were so strong that they were able to succeed outside of bot-lane and did so with flying colors. Attempts at balancing one, would affect the other usually in the inverse. Pro-play is often the crux of these balancing decisions, which is problematic in its own right, considering solo queue is such a different beast that they may as well not be the same game.

Pyke is a very interesting champion in both design and lore, with a cool kit to boot. However, it's hard to look past how much he sucks the fun out of an entire game to see the nuance of his character.

SmitemuffinJul 24, 20195 votes

He needs nerfed hard

huhndogJul 23, 20194 votes

He just has way too much in his kit:

Grey health like tahm kench
hook like thresh
old zac q
twitch camo
a dash + a stun
a better darius health that doesn't really on hemorrhage

We all know that these negative comments are pyke abusers in denial.

14daysuspensionkJul 23, 20194 votes

Puke.

crippler38Jul 23, 20194 votes

I hope they nerf his gold generation, perhaps by halving how much a your cut is worth and having pyke get a kill and a your cut while the assistee gets two your cuts. This means that Pyke generates a kill and a half for himself rather than two kills worth of gold while generating the same for his allies.

That or turn his your cuts into a flat amount of gold like Bounty Hunter does in DotA.

As for the rest of his kit.

Ackchewally his hook pulls you a fixed distance and slows, and is the 'worst' hook in the game because of its delay and distance moved compared to the others. The dash is how it is because he's supposed to build super squishy (they've been pushing him towards that) so him using it with his W down means he should (should) get instagibbed rather quickly.

TailypoJul 23, 20194 votes

He doesn't need buffs, but neither did Vayne. Unfortunately, Riot has skins to sell.

CµpcakkeJul 23, 20194 votes

Pykes biggest problem rn is his escapes. He is way to safe as a champion and to the player. If he makes a mistake he can easily e w out of the fight and regen all of his health back. Plus his E stuns enemies so.

If anything, cooldowns need to be increased at all ranks.

QuM1tSuk3 YTJul 23, 20192 votes

Pyke isn't op. He's an executioner not an assassin. He can't go all in to a bruiser and kill him like assassins do. He don't need buffs/nerfs. He's ok

Spear of JusticeJul 23, 20198 votes

Tell me how is it okay to get 600 gold minimum for every ultimate. Even if you just get item 3400 for everyone in an ace you instantly get enough gold for a full item. With the last buffs it's just too easy to snowball with him.

QuM1tSuk3 YTJul 23, 20191 votes

When I said OP. I meant the damage and hit kit overall. I'm not talking about the ult since the ult is too much I agree. But he as a full champion not so much.

SanKakUJul 23, 20192 votes

Um, in 1.13 they obliterated him. Even with the small buffs in 1.14, he is not a good pick IMO. Everyone is better at pushing than he is now, and getting to stun minions isn't going to be enough of a buff.

huhndogJul 23, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Um, in 1.13 they obliterated him. Even with the small buffs in 1.14, he is not a good pick IMO. Everyone is better at pushing than he is now, and getting to stun minions isn't going to be enough of a buff.

according to op.gg he is ranked #1 support with a 51.3% win rate, 18.77% pick rate, and a 49.69% ban rate, buts that ok because "he's not a good pick". That ban rate is ABOVE YASUO

Exin0Jul 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

according to op.gg he is ranked #1 support with a 51.3% win rate, 18.77% pick rate, and a 49.69% ban rate, buts that ok because "he's not a good pick". That ban rate is ABOVE YASUO

look at different servers or RU is unpopular trash on JP god of death. 51,3% and 18,77% overall dont look that impressive until you look and realise he skyrocket everywhere by massive rate not some flimsy +0,5%. He is most broken champion in game right now.

Above AllJul 23, 20192 votes

A lot of assassins feel frustrating to play against, especially when they're strong. Pyke is unique in that he is almost never terrible because of his utility.

There is no denying that Pyke is an assassin, yes in the support role, but he is still an assassin. And assassins usually have to earn the first couple of kills to start snowballing because if they don't they're useless. If an assassin doesn't get ahead they're useless, besides Master Yi as he is an exception, but Pyke is never useless, he always adds to a fight through his cc and execution.

Assassins aren't suppose to have hard cc, there are exceptions to the rule of course but it's a rule for a reason. There is no reasonable counter to being stunned followed by an execute, and that is why assassins generally never have hard cc themselves but needs a team to do it <--- Important!

Pyke is toxic not because of his utility, but because he is a support. Assassins are defined by "high risk high reward", and the one biggest risk of assassins is that they took up a major role, whether it is mid or jg, and if they don't get ahead it's basically a 4v5. Pyke therefore is toxic because even is he does get behind and is useless, which he'll never be but for the sake of argument, then you only lost the support role, the least important role in terms of needing to get ahead. And because he is the support he has a teammate right next to him, so that when Pyke does stun, the adc can do the damage, and Pyke can execute.

I ultimately agree that Pyke's kit isn't as broken as some may think, but I feel that because he is played as a support, that he is toxic.

If you're not convinced then let me clarify what I mean.

If you shut down, or go even with a zed in mid lane (can be any assassin), then you are likely to win the game, assuming everything else stays constant. This might seem like the norm and that this is true for any other lane, but since assassins don't scale as well that feeling of "winning lane=winning game" is guaranteed. If a Draven wins bot lane, the enemy adc always can match Draven somewhat if the game goes on long enough (when everyone gets full build), which while unlikely is still a possibility) so that "winning lane=winning game" isn't guaranteed unlike for assassins. Pyke therefore feels toxic to his opponent because even if you manage to shut down Pyke, he is still very relevant and very much a threat.

Pyke is much like Master Yi, both exceptions to the norm regarding assassins, and thus explains why both are hated so much. Master Yi doesn't have to get fed as he scales really well and has a lot of game impact, same with Pyke, both undermining the "high risk high reward" rule for assassins as there is little inherent risk.

Just my 100 cents... Make Pyke a jungler and balance his kit around that. Or have his ultimate execute only give gold to him, thus in turn adding a lot of depth to his kit. Adds high level decision making.