Fiora's laning phase feels like a very one-sided game.

Melledoneus··58 votes·5,029 views

#NOTE: I AM NOT SAYING FIORA IS OP OR BROKEN. I AM SIMPLY STATING THE PROBLEMS WITH HER KIT.


Here's how Fiora's little mini-game works: -Vitals are available to be struck from a direction on the enemy laner. You get damage, healing, and a movement speed boost when you strike one. -If you don't hit the vital in time, it switches with almost no downtime. If you do hit it, you get decent damage and win trades with it.

The problem is that the way it is now, Fiora is not punished for lunging for a vital and missing. She has practically negligible mana costs, and she has safety tools for escaping unfavorable fights, which are few and far between. Not to mention that the enemy laner, unless they are some super lane bully, cannot play around Fiora lunging for their vitals, since she still gets pretty good damage on them anyway, and can just walk around them and hit the vital regardless because her E has a slow. And the battle there is only uphill, as Fiora just gets stronger and stronger with more items. The moment she gets Phage, more than 3/4 the top lane roster can no longer fight her.

So why is this important?

Because reworked Fiora's laning phase was supposed to be more interactive for her opponents. But it certainly doesn't feel that way. It's now definitely more interactive for Fiora, playing a mini-game she can compete well in but few can even attempt to participate in. It reminds me of mechanics like Jax's E that give the champion something cool to work with, but opponents can't do much to retaliate. So what's the point?

In my opinion, one of several things could be done.

  1. Give the vitals some downtime if Fiora doesn't pop them. That way, she's not constantly looming over you, and she is rewarded only if she actively goes for them, not just being given a silver platter just for being near an enemy.
  2. Increase the mana cost on Fiora's lunge, or make it only refresh CD when it hits champions. This way, Fiora cannot simply jump in and jump out like some psuedo-Leblanc.
  3. Reduce the size of the vitals. This way, Fiora needs to pinpoint her attacks rather than just pressing Q through an opponent and getting a vital gratis. This would also allow opponents to protect their vitals from Fiora by directional obstruction or strategic motion.

That's all I have to say for now. What do you guys think?

119 Comments

Sahn Uzal18 votes

Voted Masochism, because every toplane main who claims he/she's not a masochist is a liar.

CeexSett11 votes

Singed mains are actually the opposite. They are the only ones to have fun while the other 9 people suffer. Sadistic as it gets.

FantasySniper3 votes

The Teemo Darius Vladimir players too.

l Helios l2 votes

Darius What is that suppose to mean?!?!?

Comrade Napoleon2 votes

Thats the beauty of it, one game the adc told me at the start "i love playing with a singed" i was like "thats not supposed to happen :("

CeexSett2 votes

I actually also enjoy having a Singed. It's so fun seeing the enemies rage and not knowing what to do :D

Procede in proxying in their base at level 1, that is hilarious to watch.

asamu7 votes

Every time I've seen or been against a Fiora, she's either fed through the mid game, or dominated, and if the game goes late enough, she dominates the end game anyway, even if she fed in the early game.

PiVoRx7 votes

Only issue i got with her is cdless dashing, Fiora is raping my top laner under his tower, i come to gank, she dashes twice, riposte and then dashes once again. Like how do you even punish her for doing whatever she wants?

Spoofghoul7 votes

i got stomped vs her as graves of all champs

i mean i won lane early

but then she just keeps pressing q nonstop you cannot get away from her at all and eventually she gets too strong to fight for pretty much anyone except maybe yi?

Melledoneus4 votes

The only two champioms that can fight Fiora late 1v1 are Olaf and Nasus.

PermabannedGaren5 votes

{quoted}

The only two champioms that can fight Fiora late 1v1 are Olaf and Nasus.

Olaf gets dumpstered by Fiora late game.

These champions can at least potentially fight Fiora late:

Tryndamere MasterYi Jax Warwick Nasus Mordekaiser Vayne maybe Trundle

It's always someone who knows nothing about the champion that complains about them.

Cheekynorth7 votes

Fiora main, didn't downvote because it's true

RagnatheBloodedg7 votes
  1. Remove the heal from the proc.
  2. Change from true damage to physical or magical
  3. Make the cooldown on vitals similar to Quinn's passive. Fiora does good damage, has decent potential sustain, and ludicrous movement from her kit. I remember this amazing champion from season 1 and 2 who got nerfed into oblivion because of these EXACT reasons. His name was xin zhao. Every single time they changed him he was too strong, and then subsequently nerfed. Why is Fiora not getting the same treatment? Xin was rarely competitive at the time, neither is Fiora now, they just stomp all ranked with their toxic lack of mechanical skill outside of a few chosen match ups.
specter4246 votes

When I first saw it I thought you could turn away like you would from a cassiopeia ult and the vital would be harder to hit. NOPE. instead if the vital is in the front and impossible to miss, I have to walk to my tower to reset it.

Melledoneus13 votes

It feels like drowning, doesn't it? Laning against a Fiora as a tank.

Weiner the Pooh7 votes

waaaaaaaaat an anti tank is good against tanks? no fucking way, thats so broken.

WoonStruck10 votes

She's good against anything melee, not just tanks.

Stop acting like she's healthy lol.

The only reason everyone isn't bitching about her is because she was made objectively weak. The basis of her kit is still unhealthy, especially when it concerns laning, much like Azir.

Weiner the Pooh5 votes

Fiora is so much more healthy than Azir, Azir has range, mobility, slows, a metric fuck ton of damage and utility. Fiora has mobility and a heal with great dueling prowess, that's it. her passive can be worked around, as does her Q W R.

WoonStruck10 votes

You missed the point entirely.

My point was that, while designing the champions, Riot, for whatever reason, did not take the what the enemy laner has to deal with into consideration...not in the slightest.

Both are super aggro with basically no downtime to their laning aggression, and very few answers to it. Yasuo is pretty similar in that regard as well, except that his only trick in laning, outside of level 2 cheese, is E->Q.

Melledoneus4 votes

Now you're getting it!

Troll for Trump3 votes

Fipra is supposed to be good with 1v1ing anything, as a duelist. In a perfectly even lane, Fiora falls off later on in teamfights. Basically she's useless in teamfights, like a weird assassin/juggernaut hybrid. To prevent this, she had too snowball hard in laning phase to avoid being irrelevant later on. So she becomes a godlike 1v1er. The problem with this is it's just an incredibly unfunny and boring lane for the opponent, as you can't doo anything unless you are also a duelist our have the jungler's assistance. Irelia is also like this.

LXII5 votes

If it were just tanks that would be fine, but it's not.

MunchCrunchLunch6 votes

yes if she gets a kill on you you might as well take the little jungle monsters and counterjungle and not go to your lane at all because feedora will just dive you under turret when you show up take all that minion and turret agro kill you spam her laugh under the turret while shes healing like the bitch face she is.

jr deputy meow3 votes

this is so anecdotal it hurts

MunchCrunchLunch5 votes

i bet with that kind of attitude not even your friends like you.

CasterGilgamesh5 votes

well maybe increase the mana cost and when she hits a vital with it she refunds part of the mana cost i mean you cant just nerf her because she is a decent pick i mean she isnt a good team fighter since she is so open to getting blown up hence why she has her reposition

Fondling Gems3 votes

Agreed with this. It helps cut down how much she can spam and means that she actually has to have a bit more patience if she wants to poke people.

I would even be in favor of multiplying the base cost by 1.5 and having it refund 1/2 the cost on vital proc. So it is actually more rewarding than live to Q vitals, but less to use it poorly.

Fondling Gems5 votes

I feel like the her vitals should be bufffed, but missing the vitals is less rewarding. Something along the lines of her Q costs more and only 30% of the cd is refunded if it misses a vital or doesn't kill something (So you can still farm minions with it)

That way she feels a lot less sticky without significantly nerfing her.

Weiner the Pooh5 votes

Shes supposed to be sticky.

Fondling Gems8 votes

Yes but currently it is too much. It also lets her poke repeatedly with little to no repercussions. Considering her kit has a built in slow and the ability to reflect cc while turning it into a stun her stickiness shouldn't revolve around an ability that lets her chunk people with 0 though to the rest of her kit/passive with no way to respond on a super short cd.

I am fine to a fiora sticking to me, the issue is that her Q has no negative impact for just blindly spamming it whenever it comes off cd.

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

Remember, pre rework she was sticky as hell, parts of that had to remain, and it did in this way. This way of sticking has tons more counterplay than the previous iteration, but still allows her to stick to people. You have to remember, Fiora was made not only at the new standard of champs, but still being reminiscent of the old one. Shes not like Poppy or Sion where they're completely brand new, a decent portion of Fiora's old kit remained.

Fondling Gems8 votes

I have 0 issue with her being sticky. However currently her stickiness is also something she can spam poke with and there honestly isn't much interaction. She is "supposed" to use vitals, but in reality she just Q's whenever I am in range regardless of the situation. I am not asking for a nerf per say, rather moving power from one part of a kit to another to make her more vital dependent.

Even something as simple as a mana cost increase on Q but have it refund more mana than the increase if you hit a vital/kill a minion with it. So it would hurt the sustain of Fiora players that blindly spam Q but reward Fiora players who know how to utilize vitals.

I would also argue against how quickly she can use minion waves to travel with Q in favor of a stronger slow but that is a different topic.

I just don't think that Fio should be able to blindly spam as much as she currently can.

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

Yeah and i dont think Caitlyn should be able to place so many traps under tower, and i dont think vayne should get so much MS just for looking in her targets direction, but what are you gonna do? Bitching over a weak champion is just stupid.

Fondling Gems11 votes

Make posts and have discussions about it like a civilized person? Sometimes posts do come to Riot's attention. The OP made a clear argument that was meant to raise questions. I simply wished to offer up a possible solution. I am not bitching. Honestly I don't mind Fiora and from my experiences with her she seems like she is in a perfectly fine place. However the OP made an excellent point that while the matchup is more interactive for the Fiora player than previously, it is less interactive for the other laner. My goal was simply to offer up an idea meant to create more discussion on the topic.

I honestly fail to see why you seem so negative and anti everything I say. I have 0 issue with you disagreeing with me. In fact that means I am creating more discussion on the topic which is a good thing. However you seem to to pushing my ideas into the ground not for what I am saying, because I am talking. You seem to think I want to nerf a champion who is weak. Quite the opposite. I am exploring ways to move power around in a champion's kit to highlight their strengths.

Honestly if you aren't capable of having a reasonable conversation with people and saying more than "Well X isn't the way I want it so you don't get to have input on Y subject" Honestly that is a pretty childish way of acting and is more of a waste of your time than mine. If you don't understand the point of reasonable debate and the exploration of ideas then you really shouldn't be commenting on those types of discussions. It would be like me writing a review for a show I have never seen and have no interest in learning about. If you aren't capable of having a reasonable argument for or against someone's point of view then I honestly can't be bothered to continue conversing with you. Good day.

Weiner the Pooh2 votes

Oh i understand reasonable debate fine, but you are asking for something that is not a problem, rather something you would like changed, so i said what id like changed. And I gave reasons, and then you say "I just don't think that Fio should be able to blindly spam as much as she currently can.". I put in points as to why things are the way they are, and you ignored it. Im not pushing your ideas into the ground because you're talking, I'm doing it because you're point is flat out wrong.

Fondling Gems6 votes

No, I have been listening to your points. However currently the only point you have made was that pre-rework she was sticky so nothing should get changed. That is not a good argument. This topic was about how she does not feel interactive for an enemy to lane against, which I find true regardless of if she is winning or not. As such I believe that rewarding Fiora players who use their Q intelligently while taking away incentive to blindly spam it during the lane is a good thing.

Considering she has a build in slow, gets movespeed from hitting vitals, usually buys a phage item, and can constantly dash missing a vital isn't going to stop her from chasing, however it gives opponents a meaningful cd to play around rather than something she can use nonstop. The way her Q cd currently works is that she can't go around the map at the speed of sound. I believe that directing buffs towards hitting vitals and nerfs towards using Q every time it is off cd so long as someone is near would be a healthy change for her.


Even ignoring the lesser cd reduction for not hitting vitals boosting the mana cost of Q but having it refund most of its mana on hitting vitals would be a good thing by itself. It means that Fiora gets better mana management for playing smartly than currently and less for not playing around vitals.

Hawkefire2 votes

The only worry I have about this would be a resurgence of tank/heavy-bruiser fiora.

If the damage were increased on her vitals there is definitely a chance of that rearing its ugly head again

Fondling Gems3 votes

I never mentioned increasing vital dmg. All my points were about nerfing her Q cooldown if she doesn't hit a vital or increasing Q mana cost but have it mostly refund on hitting a vital.

Hawkefire2 votes

You said you were shifting power around. Rationally speaking would assume that this means decreasing damage elsewhere and increasing the power of her vitals

Fondling Gems2 votes

In my very first comment. However I clearly refocused my buff/nerf mixture throughout my comments. Logically your comment would be taken as a response to my 5th comment, in which I am clearly discussing shifting power through the use of mana cost + mana refund.

However I fully see how you could make that mistake especially since I assume you read all my comments in a row. For me my 5th comment is almost 1/2 a day later than my first one. For you it would be 1/2 a minute.

So currently I am simply arguing for a shift of power out of her Q to her vitals by giving Q a higher mana cost but making hitting vitals restore enough mana so that is costs less than present.

Zonkman4 votes

if you present yourself as a non worthy opponent Fiora will be honor bound to ignore you since she isnt longing for you and you instantly win lane

Melledoneus6 votes

Then she'll just farm you like another minion...

Zonkman2 votes

Real Fiora mains get gold from the corpses of worthy opponents so they don't farm minions have you ever played against a Fiora main??

Melledoneus4 votes

I was once a Fiora main. Then the fire nation attacked.

Im The Jayce God3 votes

I find her vitals annoying early game, then I decided to stay behind minions so when she comes, she gets the same damage taken. And if she stays, shes gonna die quick.

Serika Zero3 votes

Early game, without hitting vitals, she does 0 dmg, really. So, she IS punished for missing that. She does no dmg and has no been put in melee range of you and you can punish her for it + minion aggro.

Take advantage of your enemy's mistake and win. That being said, there are match-ups that Fiora simply rapes. Yasou top, GP top, Nasus, etc. But there's also match-ups she loses so hard she can't even recover: Diana, Darius to name 2 of em.

Oakleaf Ranger6 votes

are you kidding me? the Darius matchup is skill matchup that is Fiora favored. Once she builds life steal your basically boned as Fiora life steals like crazy while your spinning your axe and getting chunked from the vitals

Coochie Cutie3 votes

I do main Fiora so I am hella biased but that means I also know her a lot more than the average bear... I'll try to keep it short.

If she Q's and doesn't hit a vital then it basically is useless because it does less damage than an auto. So yes she gets punished. Also waste of mana which you can easily run out of if you keep using Q and missing a vital.

Her only escapes from unfavorable fights are... Q: Dashes away but if you are using it to run and don't hit anything then... It has a really long cool down. W: Only can be used as an escape tool if they use a stun on you or you hit a vital with it to get speed boost. E: Is a very very extremely short slow... So basically nothing when trying to run. R: Gives you a speed boost in a certain vicinity from who you ulted. If the enemy has gap closers then she is dead. These "escapes" are very very minimal is you actually think about it. She also has a lot of unfavorable fights actually. You can't just go into a fight like a maniac...

Also yes you can play around her vitals. I will explain in a moment.

I will now talk about your "Several things that can be done"...

  1. The vitals do not need down time because that is her main and only true source of damage. It's the only thing that can do damage against Tanky top laners. She also cannot just go in on a vital that is not in a good spot and will put her in a bad position. She is SQUISHY!!! She can't just do whatever she wants. You have to know when to poke and pick a fight otherwise you'll die. Nothing is a silver platter for Fiora unless you play flawlessly.

  2. Like I said she doesn't need mana cost increase. She can still easily run out of mana. Also the cool down only on champions is ridiculous early and mid game. She sometimes has to use her Q to farm safely and her cool down is really really long early.

  3. What you just said is already there... If you are right on top Fiora she can't hit her vitals no matter what. If you kite a certain way then you can gurantee she won't hit her vitals either. Also if you go against a wall that your vital is facing then she can't hit that shit either... So no her vital size does not need to be reduced. There is also already these ways to "play around" with her vitals on your end.

I don't really no what else to say but this post kinda sounds like you just don't know how to play against her... So you want her early game to be nerfed to shreds so you don't have to learn how to handle against her.

If you wanna know anything else or I forgot to include some things then just let me know!

XeroKimo2 votes

Some insights on fiora, tho I don't main her anymore and don't play her that often,

Her early game has considerable cooldowns that pretty much only makes her try to proc a vital and back off.

Land a Q? it's on a about 5 second cooldown both w and E also has considerable cooldown early game If she does miss a Q or uses it to back off, the cooldown is super crazy so she is pretty vulnerable then.

In early game if she is playing glass cannon version, tank/bruiser champs are super effective on laning against her cause the glass cannon route is weak early strong late. She needs a considerable amount of AD to make her passive effective for dueling so if you're a tank or bruiser you can outsustain her duels most of the time during early game, if you are playing another glass champ against fiora, you're more than likely to lose unless she actually sucks...... or you're pantheon

If she is playing the bruiser/tank route, playing glass cannon champs are pretty effective against her, she may be able to survive early game better as bruiser, but she lacks the dmg compared to her glass cannon route to outduel glass cannon champs

Memeguel4202 votes

I think its fine the way it is. If she misses a vital, She just used her movement ability towards you, hardly did any damage, doesn't have her movement ability for a few seconds, and is easily punishable since she doesn't have the movement speed from hitting it.

More from Gameplay

More by Melledoneus