Slows are getting weaker and weaker.

Kögâ·Mar 5, 2015·35 votes·2,346 views

With every champ that gets a dash, slows get weaker, since the new meta is mobility, slow using champs could use a buff.

37 Comments

Only Play DariusMar 5, 201523 votes

Shorten the dash range by a percentage based on the strength of the slow (only for skillshot dashes, lets face it the wallhops are the real problem, not so much the gapclosers).

E.G. If Nasus withers Riven and she is slowed by 50% when she activates her shield dash, then the distance she covers is 35% shorter than the original amount.

Problem solved.

QuacksterhandMar 5, 20157 votes

YES please!

KingsgraveMar 5, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oREwQj11,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-05T07:33:19.975+0000)

Shorten the dash range by a percentage based on the strength of the slow (only for skillshot dashes, lets face it the wallhops are the real problem, not so much the gapclosers).

E.G. If withers and she is slowed by 50% when she activates her shield dash, then the distance she covers is 35% shorter than the original amount.

Problem solved.

now Tryndamere is useless

VarnocMar 5, 201512 votes

I would prefer to see it happen a little differently, as messing with dash ranges can be confusing, espically for new players. Riot has stated before that abilities that vary in range (See Syndra R), are troublesome because enemies spend the entire game figuring out how close you can get before getting smacked, then after you've learned the range it suddenly changes, it feels pretty crappy.

I would like to see them have slows affect the speed at which the animation its self is performed. Using your example, Nasus slows Riven by 50%, her shield dash now takes that much longer to complete.

This is more intuitive than shortening the distance because it is very obvious why your are moving slowly, whereas if you shortened the distance it may cause problems when it comes to moving over walls.

Of course, if this is put into the game, blinks would be unaffected. This would give a clear difference between blinks and dashes, and the power budget of new champions could be adjusted accordingly.

Frozen Mallet and Ryali's Crystal Scepter would become viable options to deal with high mobility champions as well with this change.

rinsujoMar 5, 20152 votes

That actually sounds like a really good idea. Makes it more difficult to play though, and there are certainly plenty of champs (Wukong, Xin, Aatrox, to name a few) who are somewhat underpowered and rely on their dashes. The interaction would take a lot of getting used to for older players who aren;'t used to it as well, but on the whole, it'd be an interesting new mechanic. I'm not sure if I'd like this or not, but I'd certainly be willing to give it a try.

VarnocMar 5, 20152 votes

I agree completely, it may not be the ultimate solution to the problem of mobility creep, but it's a start and I'm willing to test it out as well, let RIOT gather data as to how it affects game health, move on from there and improve it.

If certain champions are meant to be slippery, their dashes could remove slowing effects (Like Lucian's used to, it would identify him as the most mobile of the ADC's at current, right now he's somewhat on par with Vayne right now for that title).

Slows as a whole would need to be looked at for sure though. Certain champions (Like Zilean now, Thresh, etc.) could become problems, but also could serve to counter highly mobile champions, becoming counterpicks to those champions.

VardenSaladMar 5, 20152 votes

He did say 'skillshot dashes', so I know Wukong amd Xin wouldn't be affected.

agbudarMar 6, 20151 votes

slows are dominantly used to stick to a target.

yes they are used defensively but far more often is it a offensive measure to beat said champ to a pulp.

rinsujoMar 6, 20151 votes

I missed that distinction - thank you for the correction!

Mathlete864Mar 5, 20156 votes

Zilean 99% slow

doublelift fgMar 5, 201518 votes

99% is 10% more effective than 50%...

KaisadiIIaMar 5, 20152 votes

Pretty off-topic but: I hate that people think that Zilean's 99% slow is a buff, while actually movement speed is hard capped somewhere around ~130 movement speed and his slow isn't much more strong than it used to be, but it lasts half the time than before.

LankPantsMar 5, 20151 votes

movement speed is hard capped somewhere around ~130 movement speed

MS is never hard capped, otherwise those vids with 2000 MS Hecarim wouldn't work.

NarasimhaMar 6, 20151 votes

Rammus broke that record a while back, I think he had upwards of 10,000 for a little less than a second.

rinsujoMar 6, 20151 votes

But now revive is gone. And so the record will stand forever. (or until something more broken comes along)

KaisadiIIaMar 6, 20151 votes

I referred that it can't go below that amount, but either way the word is "soft-capped". Theoretically you can reach 999,999 MS iirc.

btw, from leagueoflegendswiki:

When the raw movement speed is less than 220 another soft cap is used:

If the raw speed below 220, it gets multiplied by 50% and added to 110. Example: if the calculated raw speed is 180 before soft caps kick in, it is increased to 180 × 0.5 + 110 = 200.

LankPantsMar 6, 20151 votes

My bad I misread that.

While MS is capped in the lower direction (I thought you were talking about the upper direction for some reason) having a higher MS slow % isn't useless. It helps to better shut down targets with MS boosts and extreme movespeed that aren't Yi. While a 99% slow and an 80% slow have little difference against a 400 MS target when you start slowing things like Ramus and Hecarim the 99% slow becomes far more effective.

While it's a lot more situational than it use to be it still holds greater power in certain situations.

KögâMar 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

99% slow

The reason he is allowed to have such a strong slow is because he was just re-released, in the game where slows are weaksauce. Also it's not the kind of buff you think, since slows hardcap, while the duration doesn't. Truthfully I'd rather have the old slow back. As champs like riven are still slowed after they try to eat up the duration with their dashes.

As of right now riven can eat up like 2 seconds worthof slows using her dashes. Meaning they are pretty much useless against her.

Solidair3Mar 5, 20154 votes

Double slowing with zilean is plenty powerful, I assure you.

KaisadiIIaMar 5, 20154 votes

If slows decreased the speed of dashes... Ashe would be a viable marksman again...

Lost RMar 5, 20152 votes

Lulu Thresh Jinx Volibear Nasus Zilean Nami Trundle Draven Kalista Braum

Some slows deserve to be buffed, but a lot of them are just fine the way they are.

RakvirMar 6, 20151 votes

Are you listing those as ones which are fine or ones that deserve buffs?

If needing buffs, then I fail to see a certain yeti on that list...I mean, really, having an ability slot unusable unless near a monster, minion, or pet as it cannot be used on champions would make me think a little something is in order. Yes, Nunu has very nice AP scaling on E and R, but it's far too easy to predict when an ult is coming (and generally easy to avoid or get out of), and the snowball is a one-shot wonder ONLY if you stack a ton of AP which most people expect a Nunu player not to do because they want a tank but are too lazy to build even a single defense item for themselves (Fiora and Master Yi? nope, gonna skip on that thornmail and buy another vampiric sceptre!).

Lost RMar 6, 20151 votes

I was listing the ones who had slows that, when you get hit by them, the dread hits you like a truck and you think to yourself, "There's a good possibility I won't survive this!"

Granted, when it comes to Voli and Thresh (outside of his ult), the slow is just an insult to injury (and in the case of Trundle, the prelude to a beating of a lifetime), but my point still stands. Some slows are simply terrifying, while others are a minor nuisance. Nunu has his own list of problems, but that's another topic entirely.

DownrunMar 5, 20152 votes

I agree, buff Zed

Miku Lv99Mar 5, 20151 votes

And yet, a lot of the slowers like Lissandra, Nami, and Janna are some of the best champions right now.

RogueWillMar 5, 20159 votes

Those aren't slowers, Liss has a suppress and a root the slow is a plus, nami has a knock up an da stun the slow is also a plus, jana has 2 knocks up and a slow. All those champios the slow is secondary to all thir hard cc

RenailleMar 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Those aren't slowers, Liss has a suppress and a root the slow is a plus, nami has a knock up an da stun the slow is also a plus, jana has 2 knocks up and a slow. All those champios the slow is secondary to all thir hard cc

Lissandra certainly does not have a suppression.

SaiannaMar 5, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Lissandra certainly does not have a suppression.

Her ultimate isn't suppresion?

FasmodeyMar 5, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Her ultimate isn't suppresion?

It's just a stun.

KögâMar 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's just a stun.

Beside the point. Supports that have slows tacked onto their cc kits dont count.

PalPlaysMar 5, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Lv99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oREwQj11,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-05T07:36:28.714+0000)

And yet, a lot of the slowers like Lissandra, Nami, and Janna are some of the best champions right now.

Because Lissandra, Nami, AND Janna each have two forms of Hard CC. Super bad examples.

LlaniteMar 6, 20151 votes

Dash is supposed to counter the slow. You got it backward.

KögâMar 7, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Dash is supposed to counter the slow. You got it backward.

It counters it way too hard.

LlaniteMar 7, 20151 votes

Don't think you know what counter means

LilxPaprikaMar 7, 20151 votes

There was a thread about this not so long ago This was my reply:

maybe buff a slow's duration if someone uses a dash ability while slowed. riven gets slowed she dashes. that dashed practically made .5 second of that slow irrelevant. so for each dash a slow's duration could be extended by .5 seconds? in other words a slow will only be factored over ground covered while walking.

KögâMar 7, 20151 votes

I thought the original idea of a dash was that it covers a short distance fast but in the long run speed ups are more effective over time.

Now we have champs like riven and kalista that can pretty much use there dashes as passive movement speed ups...

CondottieroMar 10, 20151 votes

No.

Slows are already too effective against immobile champions right now. Making slows stronger would make immobile champions even more unviable than they already are.

The only solution to mobility/dash creep is to scrap the idea of "counterplay through skillshots" and reintroduce targeted stuns.