Making Sona's powerchord E snare could possibly be enough...

chipndip1·Sep 26, 2015·6 votes·1,068 views

Like, she can't escape death in most situations outside of hitting Flash or ult. If she had a way to snare one dude for a bit after casting 3 spells, I think that's fair given her EXTREMELY squishy defenses and horrid move speed. Even Zyra has two forms of hard cc (they're both just about as squishy as each other), and nearly any other support has hard cc they can access in some fashion without burning a long cd ult. Sona's powerchord E should snare instead of throw on a "meh" slow that can be replaced by buying Rylai's and spamming Q. I mean, what else do people even use E for?

43 Comments

bradSep 26, 20156 votes

sona isnt that bad people need to shut the fuck up already

Moulin RougeSep 26, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oP5fEmQo,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-09-26T01:55:57.799+0000)

sona isnt that bad people need to shut the fuck up already

Well, when you have supports like:

Blitzcrank Braum Annie Karma Leona Nautilus Zyra Thresh Nami

who will punish her dearly for trying to poke...then that's why she's considered weak. In fact, someone like Karma Leona Annie

will annihilate her if she gets within range for poke. And if she can't poke without risk of constant feeding what good is she?

The only matchup Sona can win with is against: Soraka Janna (and that's not always the case, if Janna catches her with a tornado and AD buffs the ADC, that could be trouble for Sona) Morgana

HentRexSep 26, 20151 votes

Alistar Annie Braum Nami Shen Taric Zyra These are supports sona should beat if she is positioning well.

Moulin RougeSep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

These are supports sona should beat if she is positioning well.

Oh lets see. Zyra has enough range to combo's Sona if she pokes. Like do you realize Sona's Q is only 850 units?

Zyra's snare is 1100 and if you know Zyra, a snare on a squish like Sona is just enough to kill her...or at least force her to back. With just one combo.

Nami, has and will always be a better Sona. Plus, Nami has a longer range on her Q. One good Q on Sona that tries to poke and Sona is dead.

As for Braum, he can soak her Q anyway. It's a mana for mana trade and with relic shield it'll be a test of who runs out of mana first? hint it'll be the one who keeps trying to poke because that's the only thing she can really do. Or just simply force a stalemate.

GrReaper96Sep 26, 20151 votes

Sona also does well againts Blitzcrank Thresh since she can poke behind creeps without hitting them

HentRexSep 26, 20151 votes

Ok let me rephrase a part of this. When vs braum you're not poking him out, You stay within the minions an harrass the adc. I shouldn't have said beat for nami, I'll give you that one, but sona should go even. So long as she focuses on heal here and not poke. Zyra's 1100 range snare is one of the slowest moving abilites there is. She has zero sustain. And early on has mana problems, If she's getting into a trade battle with sona, she will lose. It's not always support vs support that you have to look at.

Moulin RougeSep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ok let me rephrase a part of this. When vs braum you're not poking him out, You stay within the minions an harrass the adc.

So, what? Braum is just gonna stand there while Sona is walking over? No. He's going to punish her for it.

I shouldn't have said beat for nami, I'll give you that one, but sona should go even. So long as she focuses on heal here and not poke.

in a game of sustain, Nami will still beat her. Nami not only has a stronger heal, but it can be used creatively as poke too. Oh, and it costs less than Sona's heal too.

Zyra's 1100 range snare is one of the slowest moving abilites there is. She has zero sustain. And early on has mana problems, If she's getting into a trade battle with sona, she will lose. It's not always support vs support that you have to look at.

And a slow MS sona without her E is a perfectly possible target to hit with her slow 1100 range snare. Furthermore, all you have to do is hit Sona with a WW+Q that alone should keep her from trying a poke battle with Zyra. Last but not least, a Zyra that gets to level6 is deadly to a Sona.

HentRexSep 26, 20151 votes

A well positions Sona will not let the Melee Braum touch her. That is the whole point. He has 2 abilities too watch out for. His Q and his Ult.

Sona's Q is a lot strong that Nami's bouncing heal. Good Nami's will use it correctly, yes. But it's also easy to adjust once she uses it so she only gets half of it's effectiveness. It would not be and easy lane but it's also not a wash out.

Yes and if Zyra doesn't watch her positioning. Three aa's from the adc will kill her. (Exaggeration) Zyra is just as squishy as Sona, has more DPS yes, but zero sustain.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ok let me rephrase a part of this. When vs braum you're not poking him out, You stay within the minions an harrass the adc. I shouldn't have said beat for nami, I'll give you that one, but sona should go even. So long as she focuses on heal here and not poke. Zyra's 1100 range snare is one of the slowest moving abilites there is. She has zero sustain. And early on has mana problems, If she's getting into a trade battle with sona, she will lose. It's not always support vs support that you have to look at.

Sona CAN'T focus on healing because her w's effective health given is 1/2 temporary. Just shows you probably don't know what you're talking about on the matter. Sona's w has to be used on reaction against incoming damage. It's not a good heal on its own. A Sona that focuses on using W is a Sona that's gonna lose lane.

You DO bring up a good point on the last sentence, but Sona's issue is that there's some...peculiar issues that Riot's never dealt with even up until now. Like why is the shield on W only 1.5 seconds? Given how it works, 1.5 seconds is way too short for the shield portion of that move. 2 - 2.5 seconds would make it more clear as to how it should be used, as well as make it easier to use it properly, rather than spamming a half-assed shield and burning your mana to Kingdom Come.

HentRexSep 26, 20151 votes

My bad should have said " focused on damage mitigation." Was typing quickly and the word didn't come to me.

Akali is SO HOTSep 26, 20153 votes

You're bad for even thinking this is a good idea and you should feel bad imo

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oP5fEmQo,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-09-26T01:53:06.210+0000)

You're bad for even thinking this is a good idea and you should feel bad imo

Let's see:

A squishy and expensive support who's only real contribution to fights is damage and a long cd stun has no means of utilizing a commodity almost every support in the game has, which turns out to be hard cc without using an ult. To boot, her range for using her damage is extremely small, yet she's insanely easy to kill and has the worst movement in the game, shared with champs like Ashe and Jinx, and even Jinx has hard cc without using an ult for it. Yet I'm bad for thinking that an obvious reason to the champ's lack of popularity is because she doesn't have a basic tool that even fking Zilean has, which is hard cc without using an ult, thus she can't properly peel for others or herself in most instances unless ult or Exhaust are up...

It's not even a stun. It's a snare. For like...a second or a second and a half or so. There needs to be more reward for using squishy supports since they die so easily, which includes Sona.

Akali is SO HOTSep 26, 20151 votes

With just the AP Support item by itself Sona's poke in lane is probably the best in the entire game and with lich bane she can take ADCs down to half health with one Q + AA and you want to give her a snare on top of that? She has almost a 52% winrate right now and you idiots keep asking for buffs despite her being in a good spot right now. It's not my fault you can't dodge thresh hooks and die over and over again.

No supports damage comes even close to hers (not even Zyra's) and giving her more CC on a normal ability would spike her winrate up to old Janna tier levels.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oP5fEmQo,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-09-26T07:46:03.862+0000)

With just the AP Support item by itself Sona's poke in lane is probably the best in the entire game and with lich bane she can take ADCs down to half health with one Q + AA and you want to give her a snare on top of that? She has almost a 52% winrate right now and you idiots keep asking for buffs despite her being in a good spot right now. It's not my fault you can't dodge thresh hooks and die over and over again.

No supports damage comes even close to hers (not even Zyra's) and giving her more CC on a normal ability would spike her winrate up to old Janna tier levels.

You DO realize just how much damage Zyra does, right? The fact that you even suggest that Zyra should be out-damaged by Sona is crazy. Zyra can out-damage freaking mid laners without a single NLR item with ease. Are you saying that Sona can out-damage mid laners? Even in games where I end up going on kill streaks with a Lich on, I look at damage dealt and it's around the lowest on my team most of the time. Just because you feel it when you get hit by her powerchord Q doesn't mean Sona's damage is THAT high. It isn't because the first two casts of Q are actually pretty tame, with or without Lich.
You DO realize that nearly any mage, support or otherwise, can knock out squishies with a Lich Bane, right? Assuming you're stacking AP, you stun them and use the auto before using the next skill you'd otherwise use anyway. Just cause all the damage isn't loaded into one Q+right click doesn't mean it isn't there.
Her win rate's 52%, but her play rate as you go up the ladder is microscopic. Outside of picks like Tahm, Zilean, and mages that don't even have support tags (Annie, Brand, Velkoz), she's pretty rarely picked in Plat+, iirc. If more people picked her, her win rate would decrease accordingly. Only people that specialize in using her are using her atm, and that's not the position of a character that's "fine". A character that's fine should be relatively viable without having to be a solely dedicated main of that character. Sona's high risk play style doesn't offer enough reward in places outside of her Q, and that's why as you climb up in elo, you see less people picking Sona. Too easy to kill for not enough benefit back for it, and in higher skill levels of play, people take advantage more and get way more mileage off of it.
If the effective range for using Sona's full kit (where all the good stuff comes from) wasn't a mind-boggling 550 while being this squishy WHILE being as slow as Jinx (who has her own fking snare...), I wouldn't even be asking for this to begin with.

Akali is SO HOTSep 26, 20151 votes

lol

chipndip1Sep 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oP5fEmQo,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-26T20:31:36.677+0000)

lol

If all you can say after making a clearly false statement about Zyra's insane damage output is "lol", then you must be laughing at yourself.

Akali is SO HOTSep 26, 20151 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4

RedCycloneSep 27, 20152 votes

Why not have her E powerchord become a snare ONLY if it's rank 5

Rank 1 - 20% slow Rank 2 - 40% Rank 3 - 60% Rank 4 - 80% Rank 5 - Snare

Would be a nerf and buff respectively Giving Sona a reason to rank E, all while making it's "one point wonder" factor half as effective

chipndip1Sep 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not have her E powerchord become a snare ONLY if it's rank 5

Rank 1 - 20% slow Rank 2 - 40% Rank 3 - 60% Rank 4 - 80% Rank 5 - Snare

Would be a nerf and buff respectively Giving Sona a reason to rank E, all while making it's "one point wonder" factor half as effective

Fine enough idea, actually. I just dislike how it's near useless as it is right now, and I dislike how no one seems to care even more.

MiraweaveSep 26, 20151 votes

What the hell? No, that would be broken.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=ME AM SMART,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oP5fEmQo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-26T01:36:14.831+0000)

What the hell? No, that would be broken.

Annie has:

More range
The ability to apply this hard cc to 2 aoes, one of them being straight instant
More damage
Not a snare, but a STUN

but that's perfectly fine? If Sona uses her powerchord to snare someone for...eh...1-1.5 seconds, she doens't get the same damage as she would if she used Q's powerchord instead, or the damage decrease from W's. Right now, E's powerchord is RARELY ideal because it's so lousy. It doesn't save her, it "might" save someone else, and it's a very glaring flaw in her kit since almost any other support, primarily or secondarily, has hard cc that ISN'T an ult in their kit in some fashion. Why Sona can't have this when she's the squishiest support in the game is beyond me, especially when her range to use it would be 550...which is fking low.

If I'm using a glass cannon support that dies extremely fast, then the stuff I do with the character should be more noticeable than a 1.5 second shield, a 1-person slow, a lousy speed buff, a low range poke, and a long cd ult.

OverpoweredSoapSep 26, 20151 votes

Sona needs another mini rework at this point imo.

FadedpfSep 26, 20151 votes

Her E is not weak movement speed for Sona herself, so charging up then going in fast for a quick snare would be insanely easy and broken. For her team you can say its weak, but it is an aoe speed up regardless. Im fucking tired of people thinking Sona is bad or useless because she doesn't have amazing utility on top of her already insanely good damage to squishies with Q + Auto + Sheen or lich bane and it only gets worse from there. She cant have everything in the world. And her oppressiveness in lane is why she isn't quick to get buffs especially not this.

Maximum MordeSep 26, 20151 votes

The first rule of Sona is we don't talk about Sona or Riot will nerf her again. The second rule of Sona is we don't talk about Sona or Riot will nerf her again.

AikkiSep 26, 20151 votes

I use her E to stack up my passive and that's about it. I never use the powerchord E.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

The problem with this idea is that Sona's power chord is delivered by auto attacks, meaning that it would be a ranged point and click snare, which is toxic as fuck on a champion that builds 40% CDR (look at Ryze)

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The problem with this idea is that Sona's power chord is delivered by auto attacks, meaning that it would be a ranged point and click snare, which is toxic as fuck on a champion that builds 40% CDR (look at Ryze)

Annie's win and pick rate as a support is worse than Sona's in Plat+...and she can literally do that right now with more damage on it while hitting more people and using stronger cc while doing it at a higher range. This is why this point is moot.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Annie's win and pick rate as a support is worse than Sona's in Plat+...and she can literally do that right now with more damage on it while hitting more people and using stronger cc while doing it at a higher range. This is why this point is moot.

It's not moot. Sona can already AOE stun. Being able to chain an AOE stun with a point and click snare would give her way more CC power than Annie.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

It's not moot. Sona can already AOE stun. Being able to chain an AOE stun with a point and click snare would give her way more CC power than Annie.

Annie's Q: Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds. Point-n-click.

Annie's W: AoE. Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds.

Annie's R: AoE. Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds.

Annie's AA: More range than Sona

Annie as a champ can literally operate, from basic autos to full spell rotations, at a higher range with more damage and cc potential than Sona can. Also has more base health. The only trade off is that Annie has...one less starting point of armor than Sona. Yea, point is moot.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Annie's Q: Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds. Point-n-click.

Annie's W: AoE. Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds.

Annie's R: AoE. Higher range than Sona's AA. Stuns when passive is up. Eventually stuns for almost 2 seconds.

Annie's AA: More range than Sona

Annie as a champ can literally operate, from basic autos to full spell rotations, at a higher range with more damage and cc potential than Sona can. Also has more base health. The only trade off is that Annie has...one less starting point of armor than Sona. Yea, point is moot.

Actually the trade off is that Sona has utility. Healing, shields, and move speed. Also, you're ignoring Sona's passive which is a large amount of point and click damage.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Actually the trade off is that Sona has utility. Healing, shields, and move speed. Also, you're ignoring Sona's passive which is a large amount of point and click damage.

I'm fine with Sona's heal being half a shield, thus weak if used as solely a shield. I'm fine with her move speed buff not being too potent (it could use room for being stronger in general or lasting longer on allies). What I have a problem with is that because everyone's afraid of Sona being strong, everyone's content with her being, in all honesty, pretty dang weak in comparison to most supports. Sona shouldn't be the best thing floating since the hover board in one area, true, but there's glaring flaws in her implementation that keep her from feeling satisfying to use, let alone a decent pick for truly competitive players. This is due to there not being enough payout for the huge risk she takes having to be literally right within arm's reach of enemies to do anything properly. The risk/reward for this champ is skewed significantly (but not severely) against the champ unless she's sitting on multiple very expensive ap items, but at that point you're probably playing mid Sona.

If she used her powerchord for E instead of Q, guess what? HER DAMAGE IS GONE. Her first two Q's don't do good damage. It's ONLY powerchord Q that everyone's afraid of, and if she used it for W or E, she can't chunk people anymore for two more spells. So what's the big deal in making powerchord E actually do shit supports need when that one doesn't even chunk people? Most people have dashes/blinks/jumps at this point, so hitting powerchord E hardly does anything most of the time as is. She has to risk life and limb running into dashing range of people that can 1-combo-kill her for what...a 40% slow? A fking Rylai's? You can literally build that item and spam Q instead at a higher range for the effect (if you ignore the AA bonus, the range for Q is 850). Powerchord E is fking garbage as is and there's no argument one can make against that, hence the thread.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm fine with Sona's heal being half a shield, thus weak if used as solely a shield. I'm fine with her move speed buff not being too potent (it could use room for being stronger in general or lasting longer on allies). What I have a problem with is that because everyone's afraid of Sona being strong, everyone's content with her being, in all honesty, pretty dang weak in comparison to most supports. Sona shouldn't be the best thing floating since the hover board in one area, true, but there's glaring flaws in her implementation that keep her from feeling satisfying to use, let alone a decent pick for truly competitive players. This is due to there not being enough payout for the huge risk she takes having to be literally right within arm's reach of enemies to do anything properly. The risk/reward for this champ is skewed significantly (but not severely) against the champ unless she's sitting on multiple very expensive ap items, but at that point you're probably playing mid Sona.

If she used her powerchord for E instead of Q, guess what? HER DAMAGE IS GONE. Her first two Q's don't do good damage. It's ONLY powerchord Q that everyone's afraid of, and if she used it for W or E, she can't chunk people anymore for two more spells. So what's the big deal in making powerchord E actually do shit supports need when that one doesn't even chunk people? Most people have dashes/blinks/jumps at this point, so hitting powerchord E hardly does anything most of the time as is. She has to risk life and limb running into dashing range of people that can 1-combo-kill her for what...a 40% slow? A fking Rylai's? You can literally build that item and spam Q instead at a higher range for the effect (if you ignore the AA bonus, the range for Q is 850). Powerchord E is fking garbage as is and there's no argument one can make against that, hence the thread.

A snare is a bad way to fix that though. You should be trying to make Sona more impactful in other ways, like increasing the duration of her E or increasing the scaling on her missing health heal.

A point and click snare is toxic and unfun for the game. Yes, Annie has it too, but the better solution is to take it away from her instead of making someone else compete with her.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

A snare is a bad way to fix that though. You should be trying to make Sona more impactful in other ways, like increasing the duration of her E or increasing the scaling on her missing health heal.

A point and click snare is toxic and unfun for the game. Yes, Annie has it too, but the better solution is to take it away from her instead of making someone else compete with her.

As far as supports that have point-n-click snares go, they're all low win rate and low pick rate.

Basically Annie and Taric...and those are STUNS, not even snares.

A point-n-click snare lasting around 1-1.5 seconds cast at an extremely low range isn't gonna kill someone when everyone else with that type of hard cc already showed us that it's not overpowering. With the way Sona is now, the only other solution is a full-on rework, and that isn't gonna happen for years given the current lineup of people that need a rework.

It could be possible to make it a significantly stronger slow, but that's all I can see at this point.

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As far as supports that have point-n-click snares go, they're all low win rate and low pick rate.

Basically Annie and Taric...and those are STUNS, not even snares.

A point-n-click snare lasting around 1-1.5 seconds cast at an extremely low range isn't gonna kill someone when everyone else with that type of hard cc already showed us that it's not overpowering. With the way Sona is now, the only other solution is a full-on rework, and that isn't gonna happen for years given the current lineup of people that need a rework.

It could be possible to make it a significantly stronger slow, but that's all I can see at this point.

Yeah, and both of those champions have such low pick/win rates because they only have ONE form of peel.

Crescendo > Tibbers. Period.

chipndip1Sep 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, and both of those champions have such low pick/win rates because they only have ONE form of peel.

Crescendo > Tibbers. Period.

And Sona's low pick rate...which is literally right above Annie's...and Annie is at least a strong mid laner...

You seriously can't fill the gaps here? You SERIOUSLY think Crescendo is a better tool than Tibbers?

The Yetii RiderSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

And Sona's low pick rate...which is literally right above Annie's...and Annie is at least a strong mid laner...

You seriously can't fill the gaps here? You SERIOUSLY think Crescendo is a better tool than Tibbers?

I do. Crescendo is absolutely terrifying and is much easier to hit than Tibbers when you get engaged upon (as opposed to engaging).

EnosetcSep 26, 20151 votes

yeah ranged point and click snares are totally fair on champions with only one skillshot

it's definitely not part of the reason ryze can't ever be strong

chipndip1Sep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

yeah ranged point and click snares are totally fair on champions with only one skillshot

it's definitely not part of the reason ryze can't ever be strong

This would consume the mana of 3 skills for one short snare. It's more comparable to Annie, who gets to do this anyway at a higher range with more damage while hitting more people with a stronger type of harder cc.
Sona is literally one of the THE squishiest champs in the game while having NO escape plan outside of burning a high cool down ult or Flash. Her high damage passive has to be cast at ranges that most people can simply dash over and kill her, thus the snare would be within that same range.
Ryze's passive allowed him to juggle cdr to the point where he could combo his snare and beat the living crap out of someone while they were unable to move period for seconds on end. This is literally one small snare after consuming at least 120+ mana...
Sona's damage output afterward would be cut significantly since she's using the passive on the snare rather than the damage boosted Q, which is where her status of "high damage support" comes from. Without it, her damage actually sucks. Thus, it'd make a more meaningful choice between "damage", "damage reduction", and "escape/chase". As is now, someone gets hit by her powerchord E and they're still free to Flash out or roll over a wall, but Sona's only other way to hold someone still is using her ult. Almost any other support just hits Q or E depending. How is that fair given that Sona risks the most when it comes to dying?

EnosetcSep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How is that fair given that Sona risks the most when it comes to dying?

http://i.imgur.com/1ojvYjm.jpg[/img] http://i.imgur.com/6EBNf4f.gif[/img] http://puu.sh/jGIAu/359758b6c2.jpg[/img]

chipndip1Sep 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

http://i.imgur.com/1ojvYjm.jpg[/img] http://i.imgur.com/6EBNf4f.gif[/img] http://puu.sh/jGIAu/359758b6c2.jpg[/img]

Nice way to show you can't counter-argue for shit.

-Low range for using her passive (which is the point of the character) -Less than 500 starting health with weak defenses -Lowest starting speed in the game -No escapes

How does this not scream "I DIE EASILY"? She's easier to kill than freaking Jinx and Ashe unless she's zooming around with swift or mobi boots.

majulitoSep 26, 20151 votes

Sona's E could use a wider range. Right now you have to kamikaze allies to speed them up.

3lancerSep 27, 20151 votes

Sona is played for her early game dmg, sustain, and lane pressure. Her weakness is squishyness and lack of mobility. While I do agree that her e is in a pretty weak spot atm, she doesn't need additional cc.

chipndip1Sep 27, 20152 votes

{quoted}

is played for her early game dmg, sustain, and lane pressure. Her weakness is squishyness and lack of mobility. While I do agree that her e is in a pretty weak spot atm, she doesn't need additional cc.

False. Sona is ONLY played for her powerchord Q and her R. That's it. She's way too squishy for how close range and immobile she is, and given this fact, the fact that her cc caps out at an expensive Rylai's and a long cd ult, I can't see why her powerchord E can't be buffed.