Poaching Smite counts Dragon as "enemy jungle" if you're on Red Team, Baron if you're on Blue Team

darkdill·Dec 21, 2014·83 votes·5,493 views

While playing as jungle Shyvana with Poacher's Knife, I observed that smiting the Dragon while you're on the Red Team grants you the halved cooldown and gold (but not the speed, strangely), but if you're on the Blue Team it doesn't behave the same way; it still goes on a 60 second cooldown. Likewise, if you're on the Blue Team, smiting Baron triggers the Poacher effect, while using it on the Red Team does not.

This seems... unfair. And exploitable.

Can Poaching Smite be changed so that it gives you the Poacher bonus whenever you smite Dragon or Baron regardless of which team you're on? And for that matter, same for the Scuttle Crabs?

This would make it more consistent, more balanced, etc.

33 Comments

Dar RaksadaDec 21, 201412 votes

Sounds good, not too sure if crabs should count as enemy jungle though (maybe just count it as that if there are actual enemies near?). Drake and Baron smites should be equalised whether they go for counting them as always being enemy jungle or not being enemy jungle.

Poachers could use the buff.

Omega360Dec 21, 20145 votes

The crab may not be in the enemy jungle, but it sure as hell is contestable, and should give the reduced cd and everything that it gives in the enemy jungle.

darkdillDec 21, 20141 votes

Agreed. Since it can be heavily contested, it should qualify for the Poaching Smite effect.

Cloudinator37Dec 22, 20141 votes

This would not be fair then to champions that do not use this item in jungle. playing a high mobility champ with high damage could result in sever one sided gank potential. it would be nerfed within the week and they might not simply remove what they just put in. they could nerf the buff all together and then what would you have. look at what they did to WW.

OleandervineDec 21, 20145 votes

I think none of these creatures should count for anyone's jungle. They're all free game, and should be absolutely neutral without triggering the Poacher's Smite.

VaurenDec 21, 20142 votes

When you play RekSai everything is free game. It's like you own the entire jungle. So would poacher's knife not work on Rek'Sai? :P

The5lackerDec 22, 20141 votes

The entire jungle is supposed to be free game.

The5lackerDec 22, 20145 votes

How about we take the whole "Poaching Smite" concept and shove it up someone's ass?

I mean, it's bad. Just...really, really bad.

KingsgraveDec 21, 20143 votes

Honestly I think Dragon should count as enemy jungle on Blue team and Baron should count as enemy jungle on Red team

darkdillDec 21, 20147 votes

Then that still unfairly favors one side taking Poaching Smite in high-tier play. Neither side should have an advantage over the other.

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 21, 20142 votes

I think the best way to do it is have poaching smite work based on which team has done majority damage to dragon/baron/crab. So if Dragon has a total of 5k HP, the team that deals 2.5k or more will be the one that won't get the "poach" from it.

Would actually give it a more powerful niche mechanic when it comes to securing stuff.

darkdillDec 21, 20142 votes

No, it should be the killing blow. More skill requirement.

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 21, 20141 votes

I'm talking more so about the requirements to be considered a counter-jungle/steal as opposed to not applying at all.

darkdillDec 21, 20143 votes

So am I. It should still be whoever kills the target, not whoever deals more damage. Otherwise what's the point in trying to Smite-steal?

Kitsuki05Dec 21, 20141 votes

Poaching buff activates if you get the kill, but the other team did more damage. If you did the most damage and got the kill, you still get dragon, just not poach.

ModCaptainMårvelousDec 21, 20141 votes

because if your team does the majority of dragon's damage and you still smite it, it's not really a "steal" at all.

NubeelDec 21, 20141 votes

I think it should be the killing blow. Because in the end that's what poaching is. Killing something you weren't supposed to and stealing it.

I'm all for equalizing Dragon and Baron though. By the time Baron spawns the team with better access to Dragon should have killed it enough with their advantage to make Baron a much easier objective for them than for the other team and will tilt the game in their favor pretty much because they randomly got given the better side of the map.

BudupopsDec 21, 20142 votes

poachers knife is weak enough leave it alone

JustMyBassCannonDec 21, 201412 votes

...He's suggesting buffing it by making it apply universally to river creeps, rather than only one side getting Dragon and the other getting Baron.

Skia AsteriDec 21, 20141 votes

The crabs count as in your jungle or the enemy jungle depending on which side of an invisible line they are on.

QuephaDec 21, 20141 votes

IMO, poaching smite just shouldn't distinguish between enemy and ally jungle and just always give the speed boost if you use it to finish off a large jungle monster. yes, it will make it better for farming your own jungle than normal smite, but trailblazer smite is better for counterjungling than regular smite too (and better for ganks because you clear faster with more health to gank with) the jungle is supposed to be neutral area that's only considered yours because of help from nearby lanes, i don't think any other mechanics need to depend on an arbitrary line down the river declaring one side "red" and the other side "blue"

Knight DevoutDec 21, 20141 votes

I think dragon and Baron should always give the bonus movement speed and cd refund, and here's why. The logic behind the Poaching Smite is that you are taking a risks to take the enemy jungle, and thus you get a bigger reward when you succesfully smite the enemy monsters.

For dragons and barons, regardless their "neutrality", you always have to take risks because they are objective so important that the enemy team is very likely willing to come there and fight for it, even more than for large monsters in their own jungle. Plus, you have to consider that, as for ranger trailblazer, the Poaching smite doesn't offer combat strength as Chilling Smite or Challenging smite.

Because of that, the bonus from Poaching smite should also reward junglers who take dragon, or baron, because taking those camps, while also having the handicap of not having a combat smite, it's always a risk.

AtheosisXDec 21, 20141 votes

How on earth did they think that was a good idea?

EnvyDragonDec 22, 20141 votes

{quoted}

How on earth did they think that was a good idea?

I don't think they did. It seems like a bug.

AbodyHUN666Dec 21, 20141 votes

I think poachers should give you increased AA and ability damage to enemy camps and also Dragon and Baron. This way it would be really useful on objective focused junglers who also tend to dick around the enemy jungle, stealing camps and running for their lives. Udyr Shyvana Shaco Trundle

RaptameiDec 21, 20141 votes

That's not a bug, it's by design.

darkdillDec 21, 20143 votes

Then that's imbalanced.

RyuPhalianDec 21, 20141 votes

I am questionable on whether Poacher's Knife should work on Baron/Dragon at all. It would allow the item to become a larger Rick/Reward since you're not getting the same immediate Rewards of the other 3 Machete upgrades and Rewarded with faster and safer Baron and Dragon kills. Yet with a pro, there is a con. The down side is that it could make this item actually too strong and allow teams to snowball WAY too much as Dragon would be much less riskier, and we all know what happens when a team is able to safely farm Dragon. Just saying, interesting but something to watch out for.

GaleWinUnleashedDec 21, 20141 votes

At the very least, it has to have the same behavior for both Dragon and Baron, regardless of which team you're on. I'd lean toward having the Poacher buff for both Dragon and Baron, as Poaching Smite seems a tad underused at the moment.