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I think it is baiscally official that the Akali rework is an unfixable failure.

Irelia Bot··131 votes·23,800 views

Long time Akali players hate it even if they got use to the kit since her ban rate is still about 45% after countless nerfs leaving her in an abysmal spot where I highly doubt even pros would pick her for being "broken". And don't act like it is all better now. It is going to get nerfed again in a few patches. Yes I am calling it now. If anything the rework took issues Akali already had, amplified them, and added several more.

The high ban rate suggest that people hate facing Akali more than other champs.

Riot, are you ever going to learn that letting CertanlyT having free reign with a kit design is just asking for an impossible to balance nightmare. Be it Zyra, Kalista, Yasuo, Darius, Akali or Zoe.

Are they fun to play as? Sure. Are they rewarding to play against? Hell no they literally make you feel like you can't do anything when the champ is at all strong.

The only reason Warwick didn't fail was because CertanlyT was only a part of the rework.

Yes, I know CertanlyT is likely working on a new champ or rework right now, and it is going to be another frustrating migraine to play against with something like a 4 second windwall making ults disappear, turret diving stealth, kill dragon to push a lane for the next 2 minutes or nuke an enemy from across the map.

Many of us do not want him on the design and rework team because his designs consistently cross lines of feeling unfair to play against.

You don't know how to fix Yasuo, you don't know how to fix Zoe, You don't know how to fix Akali, Mord or Kalista and the moment any of them get buffed they will have their ban rates skyrocket.

Try to treat the symptoms all you want but until you treat the source the problem is not going away.

216 Comments

King Lego38 votes

To be honest, the best option is to never let CT work alone. He's like that over excited chef when he's trying to cook something he constantly keeps on adding stuff on his dish and yet doesn't feel satisfied about it until he ends up with a dish with too many things like too much seasoning, too much sauce and too much....of everything. And the customers outside are just sitting there forced to eat his dish with no option to say "No...It's not good" and go through hell eating it in desperate hopes that they won't get sick the next day.

Eh...That's a big imaginative comparison...I'll let you guess which is which.

Dorans Pants15 votes

I stick to the classics and imagine him as the kid that always tries to circumvent the rules rather than play along and interact with the other playmates.

you know, the good old: "my superpower is to have all superpowers!"

Sewer Side36 votes

hating Zoe has got to be a meme at this stage, what does she do that is different from any other mage?

Her Q doesn’t even 1-shot WITH Sleepy Trouble Time anymore unless she’s stupidly fed. Complaining about her at this stage is just laugable.

Also, just because 1 ability in Akali’s kit is strong doesn’t mean Akali’s rework was a failure. Need I remind you the true point to rework Akali was to address her binary all in burst pattern, which the rework addresses successfully. Her shroud was gutted in the past because how she worked, her shroud was kept to preserve identity. Her problem is her shroud, but on the whole, there is nothing wrong with the Akali rework and the objectives it set out to clear was sucessful.

Dorans Pants16 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-12-26T10:50:19.330+0000)

hating Zoe has got to be a meme at this stage, what does she do that is different from any other mage?

Her Q doesn’t even 1-shot WITH Sleepy Trouble Time anymore unless she’s stupidly fed. Complaining about her at this stage is just laugable.

I guess that either proves that the design remains problematic even when the numbers are adjusted or it is just a testament to how unfun she actually was when people still refuse to accept her.

Wolfeur5 votes

At one point, you could argue people decide to hate her.

TehNACHO2 votes

Or

People hate her because she's made by CT. Nothing on balance or how she feels, people are just being petty.

yangus Beef4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-12-26T10:50:19.330+0000)

hating Zoe has got to be a meme at this stage, what does she do that is different from any other mage?

Her Q doesn’t even 1-shot WITH Sleepy Trouble Time anymore unless she’s stupidly fed. Complaining about her at this stage is just laugable.

Also, just because 1 ability in Akali’s kit is strong doesn’t mean Akali’s rework was a failure. Need I remind you the true point to rework Akali was to address her binary all in burst pattern, which the rework addresses successfully. Her shroud was gutted in the past because how she worked, her shroud was kept to preserve identity. Her problem is her shroud, but on the whole, there is nothing wrong with the Akali rework and the objectives it set out to clear was sucessful.

She has mobility + long range, and combination that simple SHOULDN'T exist. Same exact problem with Akali tbh. Mobility + long range. In fact, you can see that with every champion; ban rate correlates with mobility. This game simply should not have hyper mobile characters, it only gets worse with range and burst. When Urgot is extremely strong his ban rate still does not climb very high. Why? He is not hyper mobile, even though he is strong it is still fun to play against him to some extent. Same thing with Cassiopeia. She is extremely strong, but yet still doesn't see a lot of bans. Why? low mobility, so she's fun to play against to some extent.

Votable Jester6 votes

Cass has just over 40% ban rate right now. I'd say that's pretty high.

Also how can you say Akali has range?

I'm not going to bother talking about Zoe's mobility because nobody is ever going to actually look at it.

Yeah hypermobile champions can bee frustrating, but almost every champion has something frustrating about them.

Ouma Shuu23 votes

I think Akali rework is the perfect demonstration of the community being a bunch of crybabies more than anything. Compared to many other champions, Akali does not feel "unfair" to play against at all. Hell I would be happy if I could face Akalis all day instead of a frakkin' Kayn, who auto-attacks me and I die. In case I don't he clicks R (targeted ability) which automatically refreshes his duskblade which is tied to an auto-attack again (so much potential to miss you know). And this is just one example.

I can't possibly comprehend what is the people's problem with the shroud. It's the easiest ability to play against. All you have to do is walk away. It's that simple. I feel like all of you just try to fight it out in her shroud where she's strong just so you can submit another post against CertainlyT and get the sweet karma for it. Playing against Akali in lane is so simple, everything is so predictable and telegraphed. Unless you play in the top 1% of the playerbase where Akali can really shine (which most of you don't), that champion is so weak in hands of an average player. I haven't lost to a single Akali that I can remember in high gold/low plat elo. Literally free midlane playing against that champion.

I would say Akali is one of the best reworks along with Irelia in terms of champion design, gameplay and overall feel. Both of these reworks really amplify the theme of the champion. It makes you feel like Akali truly is an assassin ninja instead of another dull generic ap caster or whatever.

And now before you all pick up the pitchforks that this is comming from an Akali player...no. I'm a Lux main, and an Ashe....enthusiast. Neither of these champions have a particularly easy time against Akali. Yet, I don't have the slightest problem with her.

It makes me really sad that we're submiting these posts instead of putting some effort into learning to play against these champions which ultimately will make another great design rot in the dumpster. A year or two ago, I would say that CertainlyT is like a plague to this game, but at this point it has grown into a disgusting, unfair and unjust scheme of automatically discarding everything that comes from CertainlyT. The amount of hate he is getting is far beyond anything justified and I really feel bad for the guy...

Somebody Love Me5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ouma Shuu,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2018-12-26T15:18:56.589+0000)

I think Akali rework is the perfect demonstration of the community being a bunch of crybabies more than anything. Compared to many other champions, Akali does not feel "unfair" to play against at all. Hell I would be happy if I could face Akalis all day instead of a frakkin' Kayn, who auto-attacks me and I die. In case I don't he clicks R (targeted ability) which automatically refreshes his duskblade which is tied to an auto-attack again (so much potential to miss you know). And this is just one example.

I can't possibly comprehend what is the people's problem with the shroud. It's the easiest ability to play against. All you have to do is walk away. It's that simple. I feel like all of you just try to fight it out in her shroud where she's strong just so you can submit another post against CertainlyT and get the sweet karma for it. Playing against Akali in lane is so simple, everything is so predictable and telegraphed. Unless you play in the top 1% of the playerbase where Akali can really shine (which most of you don't), that champion is so weak in hands of an average player. I haven't lost to a single Akali that I can remember in high gold/low plat elo. Literally free midlane playing against that champion.

I would say Akali is one of the best reworks along with Irelia in terms of champion design, gameplay and overall feel. Both of these reworks really amplify the theme of the champion. It makes you feel like Akali truly is an assassin ninja instead of another dull generic ap caster or whatever.

And now before you all pick up the pitchforks that this is comming from an Akali player...no. I'm a Lux main, and an Ashe....enthusiast. Neither of these champions have a particularly easy time against Akali. Yet, I don't have the slightest problem with her.

It makes me really sad that we're submiting these posts instead of putting some effort into learning to play against these champions which ultimately will make another great design rot in the dumpster. A year or two ago, I would say that CertainlyT is like a plague to this game, but at this point it has grown into a disgusting, unfair and unjust scheme of automatically discarding everything that comes from CertainlyT. The amount of hate he is getting is far beyond anything justified and I really feel bad for the guy...

I personally think Akali was a well designed champion. True stealth was annoying but definitely not as OP as people cried about. Her combo was always slow and delayed but it wasnt clunky like pre revert Leblanc or release reworked Evelynn. At least, not until she was nerfed over and over. She felt like a ninja. Now she's kinda a mess.

Irelia has a nice design for her theme as well but her being balanced and designed around Conqueror, a broken keystone puts a big wrench in that, and it's kinda sad. She literally doesn't feel like a champion without Conqueror.

Sakura Rain5 votes

Logged in just to upvote this lmao. Too much truth.

Slam Dùnk20 votes

the other big issues with his champs is they get so much special shit that break game rules so people can say wow HOW UNIQUE like yasuos ult for some weird ass reason puts him out of turret range when ulting akalis stealth and then we have darius ult remember it pre rework reset every kill no cd then we got kalista's rend and passive.

DuskDaUmbreon46 votes

These "game rules" are entirely made up in your head.

Yeah, if you're locked in place for something, most games tend to be slightly forgiving if you mess up. Even Dark Souls doesn't kill you in a cutscene.

Darius's R fully resetting is a prime example of a mistake literally every designer makes. It does not break even any of the made-up rules the boards has become obsessed over, it's just a designer underestimating the power of something.

Kalista's rend is something called a "unique mechanic", it's what makes champions not carbon copies of each other. Her hops on passive are literally just "hey you kite better than other champions", and if you're going to tell me that kiting is something that breaks game rules...well...I won't even actually know where to go with that, because you'll have said the most absurd thing I'll hear for the rest of this year.

AggressiveWolf5 votes

Id honestly argue WW and Darius are the two most balanced out of the cluster fuck of champions to come out of CertaintlyT

NineTailedMystic7 votes

No, breaking the "game rules" is more like Akali W not being revealed under a tower/true sight.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

And sometimes rules have to be broken to make a better champion overall.

Which is better? A champion that bursts you under your turret before you can blink? Or one that takes time to do so, giving you an actual opportunity to dodge or fight back, but you just can't hit them all the time with a targeted ability or auto?

NineTailedMystic4 votes

The former. That way I know they're dead if I get them under the tower/avoid them under the tower, unlike Akali who gets a free pass to zone me off my own tower.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

You mean Akali, who you can just hit with anything that's not targeted, and who you can hit freely if she tries to do anything but walk around there?

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Yep.

Dynikus15 votes

CertainlyT sucks!

Can I have my upvotes now?

Abibyama II15 votes

CT bad

Morello good

Sewer Side7 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-12-26T10:22:23.334+0000)

CT bad

Morello good

CT badman makes me >:(

^—— To the left, boys

saltran3 votes

r/Boardscirclejerk

Praise Morello del Rivero

ØrnnToGetTrolleÐ14 votes

Trigger warning

I play Akali whenever she's open.

When I place my shroud, some of my opponents literally afk on top of it, giving me a free kill.

Those people complain about her kit. And they want Riot to listen to them.

You just dont fight Akali in her shroud unless you have aoe. Like Renekton has. Shroud has a pretty long cooldown at early levels. Renekton's damage is disgusting early. I am literally useless without my shroud. Yasuo is useless without his passive shield or wind wall. Irelia is useless without Conqueror+her passive.

But I wonder... Why no one complains about Urgot? He is never useless. He cannot lose trades. To anybody. Akali can, Irelia can, Yasuo can. But Urgot cannot. That's stupid. Urgot has to literally int to lose a trade/lane.

A broken champion damage and mobility wise is** far healthier** than a champion with insane hitboxes Lux Sion Illaoi hell even Jax Counterstrike has an insane hitbox. And let's not forget Thresh Blitzcrank

That is not fun. Damage and mobility do not have bugs. They work as intended. If an assassin is 3 levels and 1 item ahead of a squishy, the squishy should get 1 shot. BUT Lux can kill you even though she clearly misses Q or R. That is not legit. That is bullshit.

Hitboxes are like the awesome client we've been blessed with. It's 2018 and neither of them have been fixed. The client SHOULD WORK. PERIOD. But it doesn't. And that makes me angry. Spells that hit me even though they should miss make me angry. Getting one shot does not make me angry.

Damage could be a bit lower of course...But hitboxes are even a bigger a problem.

Akali isn't.

Learn to play.

Ouma Shuu7 votes

{quoted}

Trigger warning

I play Akali whenever she's open.

When I place my shroud, some of my opponents literally afk on top of it, giving me a free kill.

Those people complain about her kit. And they want Riot to listen to them.

You just dont fight Akali in her shroud unless you have aoe. Like Renekton has. Shroud has a pretty long cooldown at early levels. Renekton's damage is disgusting early. I am literally useless without my shroud. Yasuo is useless without his passive shield or wind wall. Irelia is useless without Conqueror+her passive.

But I wonder... Why no one complains about Urgot? He is never useless. He cannot lose trades. To anybody. Akali can, Irelia can, Yasuo can. But Urgot cannot. That's stupid. Urgot has to literally int to lose a trade/lane.

A broken champion damage and mobility wise is** far healthier** than a champion with insane hitboxes Lux Sion Illaoi hell even Jax Counterstrike has an insane hitbox. And let's not forget Thresh Blitzcrank

That is not fun. Damage and mobility do not have bugs. They work as intended. If an assassin is 3 levels and 1 item ahead of a squishy, the squishy should get 1 shot. BUT Lux can kill you even though she clearly misses Q or R. That is not legit. That is bullshit.

Hitboxes are like the awesome client we've been blessed with. It's 2018 and neither of them have been fixed. The client SHOULD WORK. PERIOD. But it doesn't. And that makes me angry. Spells that hit me even though they should miss make me angry. Getting one shot does not make me angry.

Damage could be a bit lower of course...But hitboxes are even a bigger a problem.

Akali isn't.

Learn to play.

Thank the Gods there is at least one player here using reason. I don't even play Akali and I fully agree with what you said. I see people literally stand still in her shround and then complain that they can't win. It makes my brain cells die. And let me tell you this comes from a guy who likes to play immobile adcs and midlaners and I literally have no problem with Akali.

Learn to play, well said.

The Highest Noon12 votes

As someone who's played Akali since I began in Season 3, let me tell you

people will make the dumbest mistakes then say they're not the problem.

It's even wilder when you consider the fact that she has a finite resource that everybody can see. People run in on a full health full energy assassin and wonder why they die, instead of waiting until she wastes her abilities and energy before engaging.

Akali has hella counter-play if you actually care about counter-playing her. Problem is, most people who complain about her...just don't want to counter-play her; they want to do things their own way and expect it to counter her, complaining when it doesn't lol

YetAnohter112 votes

I'm still a noob so maybe I shouldn't speak about balancement because I don't understand it myself but...

I must say I'm surprised by ppl saying these champs are "unfair to play against" and, quoting the OP,

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-26T08:28:18.819+0000) they literally make you feel like you can't do anything when the champ is at all strong.

Yasuo winrate: 47.57%

Zoe winrate: 49.87%

Kalista winrate: 49.4%

Darius winrate: 49.78%

Now drumroll please...

Akali winrate: 44.85%

It would seem it is very possible to do something against them? They all have winrate below 50%. They all loose more games than they win. And the so detested Akali has the lowest winrate of them all.

Yes I know the winrate argument is often rejected, but why? If "nothing could be done" against these champs, shouldn't their winrate skyrocket?

Leaf on Bush13 votes

This community gave up on facts long ago, they are only talking meme language. Mob rule ftw.

3TWarrior4 votes

winrate isn't everything. If you have 100 players with 50% win rate but 1 player with 100% win rate, the average is 50.5% . Mains for her achieve between 60 and 80% win rate, just like lucian. Ryze has between 60 and 70% for the best players but similar win rate

3% pick rate is average, 8% is typical meta and her ban rate is still sky high

AirKingNeo4 votes

>posting winrates without pickrates

omegalul

Bisaknosp10 votes

dw guys certainlyt is making another champ that will prob be more broken than akali

DrCyanide5 votes

That does seem to be the #1 way ban rates drop these days - new champions/reworks come out that are even more atrocious than the thing being banned.

Śhunpo8 votes

I think that Irelia's rework is also unfixable.

Ragnaveil7 votes

Here's the thing, and Riot Jag mentioned this in a reddit post long ago when he was talking with aatrox mains that were unhappy with how the champ was: He only designed the kit, how its balanced is up to the live design team and the balance team. He has no say in how its balanced. So in the case of anything CertanlyT made, he only designed the kits, the frustration is from the balance and live design teams not knowing how to make it less frustrating to play against while still making it fun to play.

ChasmOfTrossm4 votes

{quoted}

Here's the thing, and Riot Jag mentioned this in a reddit post long ago when he was talking with aatrox mains that were unhappy with how the champ was: He only designed the kit, how its balanced is up to the live design team and the balance team. He has no say in how its balanced. So in the case of anything CertanlyT made, he only designed the kits, the frustration is from the balance and live design teams not knowing how to make it less frustrating to play against while still making it fun to play.

If the design is bad, then the champion should not be sent to the balance team, because that essentially just says that someone approved of the design and intends to have the champion be released.

I'm starting to think the only way this shit will be resolved is if Riot starts pulling professional players, or people with considerable rapports into the building to assess just whether or not a design should even be considered getting released, because it's obvious that nobody is going to discipline CertainlyT. Apparently, this guy is too cool for school or something, because nobody ever reprimands him for the dumb shit he releases.

Ragnaveil6 votes

The design in Jag's case was "bad" because it resembled nothing like the original Aatrox but the name. They did say that this was to open Aatrox up to more players than cater to a small community. They were making a sacrifice.

Disciplining CertantlyT makes no sense when the balance of the champ is OUT OF HIS HANDS. I mentioned it before, but the creators have no say in the balance, the live design and balance teams do.

Boiled Triangles8 votes

{quoted}

The design in Jag's case was "bad" because it resembled nothing like the original Aatrox but the name. They did say that this was to open Aatrox up to more players than cater to a small community. They were making a sacrifice.

Disciplining CertantlyT makes no sense when the balance of the champ is OUT OF HIS HANDS. I mentioned it before, but the creators have no say in the balance, the live design and balance teams do.

The problem is that he is creating champs that historically can't be balanced, combined with being extremely frustrating to play against. It doesn't matter if he doesn't get a say in the balance, because the design was completely fucked from the start.

deltemp9515127 votes

I think it is a great rework. So do a lot of other people. The ONLY problem she has is her shroud that can't be seen by true sight.

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-26T08:28:18.819+0000)

Long time Akali players hate it

That is just a complete lie.

Irelia Bot1 votes

[{quoted}](name=RoG Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-12-26T17:57:36.626+0000)

I think it is a great rework. So do a lot of other people. The ONLY problem she has is her shroud that can't be seen by true sight.

That is just a complete lie.

Alright mr news clip taking the words out of context by leaving out the rest of the line.

deltemp9515125 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2018-12-26T18:03:54.499+0000)

Alright mr news clip taking the words out of context by leaving out the rest of the line.

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-26T08:28:18.819+0000)

Long time Akali players hate it even if they got use to the kit since her ban rate is still about 45% after countless nerfs leaving her in an abysmal spot where I highly doubt even pros would pick her for being "broken". And don't act like it is all better now. It is going to get nerfed again in a few patches. Yes I am calling it now. If anything the rework took issues Akali already had, amplified them, and added several more.

Still a lie.

l love Ahri1 votes

[{quoted}](name=RoG Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-12-26T17:57:36.626+0000)

That is just a complete lie.

It isnt... I visited r/akalimains and they complain a lot how their champion is banned too much. Some even complain to the point where they want a revert or remove true stealth.

Just saying...

deltemp9515123 votes

[{quoted}](name=l love Ahri,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=00190001,timestamp=2018-12-27T11:49:20.475+0000)

Some even complain to the point where they want a revert or remove true stealth.

That is the only complaint I ever see from real Akali players.

Also, I would not use Reddit as a source.

That's like using CNN as a credible news source.

The Highest Noon6 votes

The source of the problem is that people don't want to work to have to beat a specific champion. If that's the case, is it even a problem? Good champions will always be good champions. It is what it is. Akali still best character to me lol

King Livid5 votes

This. Having a champion that introduces a completely new mechanic is a GOOD thing. And as much as people deny it, CertainlyT's champs have lots of counterplay built into their kits. You only need to take the time to understand the champion. I'm not going to argue that often his champs aren't released overtuned, but they have at least interactive counterplay as opposed to: Talon Tryndamere Pantheon Diana Teemo Garen and more

The Highest Noon5 votes

Right? People complain about Akali because you can't press your mouse on her, as if there aren't many champs with AOEs who deal with her just fine.

Meanwhile, Tryndamere literally cannot die when his ult is up and Pantheon blocking a full three auto attacks/turret shots in a row if you know what you're doing.

the shy top5 votes

He is indeed working on that chain champion that was teased on this years roadmap. God save us all.

Físt4 votes

"You don't know how to fix Yasuo" Huh? What exactly do you mean by "fix" Yasuo?

200220121 votes

The is a way to fix Akali, make her Q not slow, W normal stealth or at least make the outline always seen under the turret and she would be fine.

Póppy Chulo5 votes

Akali outline is already seen under turret in stealth.

Ouma Shuu10 votes

[{quoted}](name=Póppy Chulo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oLn4b2oL,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-12-26T15:17:51.359+0000)

Akali outline is already seen under turret in stealth.

I feel like these people never even seen Akali in the game and are just jumping on the bandwagon because 'CertainlyT'

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