The shaco rework is really bad

Sèx Craved Eve··6 votes·2,258 views

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

17 Comments

TheLastShadow451 votes

Have you actually played it or seen videos?

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

{quoted}

Have you actually played it or seen videos?

Yip. Early game got nerfed super hard. The only good thing about shaco was his early game. Now it's terrible. He can't team fight worth a darn to begin with. [zombie-nunu-tears]

yoshi27901 votes

The only good thing about shaco was his early game.

Invisible one shot late game is a big advantage.

NavyDivea4 votes

Which he can barely do now thanks to the fact his E base damage and AD ratio were nerfed into the ground.

yoshi27901 votes

I was talking about Q + Passive + item 3087

TequilaZombie1 votes

Q+P+SS is still not as big as before.

yoshi27901 votes

[deleted]

TequilaZombie1 votes

Do the math. It's weaker.

Q+Passive

At base AD (117):

NEW: Q: 80 base + 99,5 = 179,5 With Passive: 260,3 With IE crit multiplier:

LIVE: Q: 117 * 2,2 = 257 With Passive: 308,8 With IE crit multiplier:

At 300 AD (117 base + 183 bonus):

NEW: Q: 80 base + 255 = 335 With Passive: 485,75 With IE crit multiplier:

LIVE: Q: 300 * 2,2 = 660 With Passive: 792 With IE crit multiplier:

item 3087 Damage added to previous combo:

NEW: Damage: 120 * 1,45 = 174 With IE crit multiplier: 234

LIVE: Damage: 120 * 2,2 = 264 With IE crit multiplier: 324

TOTAL DAMAGE OF Q+P+SS:

At base AD:

NEW: 434

LIVE: 572

It's weaker.

yoshi27901 votes

I'm pretty sure your maths isn't right.

OLD: 140/160/180/200/220% critical strike NEW: 20/35/50/65/80 (+100% total AD)(+50% AP)

You forgot the AP scaling. Also + 1 second invisibility.

TequilaZombie1 votes

I'm talking about AD Shaco. Does AP Shaco even builds SS?

Also + 1 second invisibility.

No, I did not forget about it. But Stealth duration has 0 impact on burst potential.

yoshi27901 votes

Well, I've seen item 3715 + item 3087 + item 3031 +item 3285 + item 3135 + item 3089 do very good in PBE. (Don't know about build order though.)

TequilaZombie3 votes

With his new Ratios, I believe full AP might be the way to go, although hybrid has it's perks (such as pushing a bit faster and having some potential to finish people off if the combo itself doesn't).

I will definitely try something along the lines of

item 3146 item 3285 item 3089 item 3100 item 3135 On the new Shaco.

lolipopevelynn2 votes

{quoted}

Yip. Early game got nerfed super hard. The only good thing about shaco was his early game. Now it's terrible. He can't team fight worth a darn to begin with. [zombie-nunu-tears]

people are playing him wrong. they are playing the new shaco exactly the same as old shaco, which is understandable if its a habit from being a shaco main. i understand. but dont say something is bad when you are playing it COMPLETELY wrong. for example, you dont max E on new shaco, you max Q first now. so many people are getting that wrong. even when play testers who new to shaco are asking "what do i max first on shaco?" people are still saying max E. NO, you do NOT max E on new shaco. you are fucking yourself hard by doing this because his Q scales pretty hard with his passive now.

3rd, people are not actually taking advantaged of the Q amp + backstab damage. again, this is just an old habbit where people expect to get good Q damage regardless of if its a backstab or not. this is not the case anymore, the only way Q will deal good damage is if you use it in conjunctionn with his backstab passive.

i wont say new shaco doesnt need a few number buffs here and there, but its hard to take someone seriously when they make a judgement on something while at the same time playing it completely wrong... its like when they changed swain. people were still maxing E first out of habit and it took riot like 3 patches to tell them to STOP doing it.

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

{quoted}

people are playing him wrong. they are playing the new shaco exactly the same as old shaco, which is understandable if its a habit from being a shaco main. i understand. but dont say something is bad when you are playing it COMPLETELY wrong. for example, you dont max E on new shaco, you max Q first now. so many people are getting that wrong. even when play testers who new to shaco are asking "what do i max first on shaco?" people are still saying max E. NO, you do NOT max E on new shaco. you are fucking yourself hard by doing this because his Q scales pretty hard with his passive now.

3rd, people are not actually taking advantaged of the Q amp + backstab damage. again, this is just an old habbit where people expect to get good Q damage regardless of if its a backstab or not. this is not the case anymore, the only way Q will deal good damage is if you use it in conjunctionn with his backstab passive.

i wont say new shaco doesnt need a few number buffs here and there, but its hard to take someone seriously when they make a judgement on something while at the same time playing it completely wrong... its like when they changed swain. people were still maxing E first out of habit and it took riot like 3 patches to tell them to STOP doing it.

even at level four hiss q does like 30 extra damage on top of aa damage. The shortened stealth at that level also means it's harder for you to position yourself directly behind somebody for the crit damage to even apply. His early game was made worse. I can't make that any clearer.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

even at level four hiss q does like 30 extra damage on top of aa damage. The shortened stealth at that level also means it's harder for you to position yourself directly behind somebody for the crit damage to even apply. His early game was made worse. I can't make that any clearer.

who gives a shit? his mid and late game are much better. and its not even that significant at early. if you are maxing Q first then all you need to do is farm it up and start your ganks at lvl 5. its not that big of a deal. if lane phase is over before you hit lvl 6 then you have serious problems on your team that extend well past shaco.

FYI, because of the flat damage + AD ratio on his new Q, it actually does more damage early than his old Q did. old Q was just a crit multiplier which was bad if you had low AD. most of his damage was from back stab + E early game, not Q. so really i dont see what the problem is here.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

The problem as I would see it, is you're comparing old Q to new Q, when, if you want to talk about viable damage at early game you need to be talking about new Q compared to old E, while also making caveats that getting off a full backstab E was actually easier to do at early levels than getting off a full backstab Q is now.

Lauchmelder1 votes

I actually hope they keep his changes.

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