NA > EU

Sèx Craved Eve·Jul 8, 2017·60 votes·6,010 views

[slayer-jinx-catface]

77 Comments

FableBlazeJul 8, 201711 votes

At the moment, yes. It seems that EU needs a proper wake up call from time to time.

Stars ShaperJul 8, 201713 votes

Honestly they need to take things seriously. They went in each match like Solo Q heroes.

Sèx Craved EveJul 8, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=NpZRqcqz,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-08T18:45:04.045+0000)

Honestly they need to take things seriously. They went in each match like Solo Q heroes.

lol

Pale PirateJul 9, 20177 votes

From a European thread on the front page:

It's my opinion that the finals of Rift Rivals, where UoL got absolutely stomped by TSM, has exposed the critical weakness of EU right now:

Lack of meaningful competition for top teams within the EU LCS. G2 are a bit of an anomaly but FNC and UoL this split are almost a surefire shoe-in for a win in whatever match they're playing.

They never change their style because they don't need to change their style since nobody in EU can deal with it. However when NA come over and show up FNC and UoL I think it just goes to show that the EU teams are awful at adapting their style; no "Plan B" if you would.

Compared to TSM and C9 and P1, all of whom have much better competition (CLG and IMT are far better than SPY or ROC for example), EU teams just don't have that need to work on differing playstyles.

Horribly disappointing as an EU fan. GG Na, GG TSM.

FableBlazeJul 9, 20171 votes

I think this is 100% true. Remember when C9 first came to LCS and how they got crushed in their first international tournament. Back then NA had exactly the same problem. Now EU has the same problem.

Hopefully EU bottom teams were watching and learned a thing or two and can challenge the top teams more.

YambrinZJul 8, 20177 votes

As if any one of you had anything to do with it.

FlashNekoJul 8, 20174 votes

Is it really a win for NA if the absolute worst representations of the region are the ones who did it?

Sèx Craved EveJul 8, 201711 votes

{quoted}

Is it really a win for NA if the absolute worst representations of the region are the ones who did it?

Technically? Yes.

FlashNekoJul 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Technically? Yes.

So why does it feel like a crushing defeat?

BigBellBruteJul 8, 201713 votes

{quoted}

So why does it feel like a crushing defeat?

Because you're an NA hater even though you're on our server.

FlashNekoJul 8, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Because you're an NA hater even though you're on our server.

Nah. I like Cloud9, CLG, EchoFox, Phoenix1 and I'm even okay with Immortals now that they got rid of WildTurtle and Huni.

TSM... I just can't support them. Ever.

JavelinJoeJul 8, 20177 votes

So what you are saying is that because it is only that TSM was the team to win the finals, that it feels like a crushing defeat? This was a NA vs EU competition, so even though you may not like TSM, and you seem to support NA, why not feel at least a bit good that they were able to win one for NA. P1 did really good too, and so did C9 to an extent, but TSM got NA the victory in the end because they did the best.

SnowplosionJul 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Is it really a win for NA if the absolute worst representations of the region are the ones who did it?

Europe did send their two best teams and G2... Who invited G2 and why?

KinjishiJul 8, 20172 votes

It was the 3 best teams at the end of Spring Split, so G2 was going as they were #1 at that time.

AeszarckJul 8, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Is it really a win for NA if the absolute worst representations of the region are the ones who did it?

All the more so. Imagine if we had sent our secret weapon Team Liquid.

Walmart PornJul 8, 20179 votes

Nah man replace tsm with flyquest vs uol then everyone hurts themselves in confusion

BigBellBruteJul 9, 20173 votes

{quoted}

All the more so. Imagine if we had sent our secret weapon Team Liquid.

Team liquid!!! OP!!!

RenownedWheat42Jul 9, 20175 votes

Not liking a team doesn't make 'em the worst representations. I'm more of a C9 and FLY fan than I am a TSM fan but I acknowledge that TSM were the strongest performers at the tournament. I don't really like P1 much but they stomped G2 and UoL, and have been looking better recently in the NALCS. I love C9, but I don't think they're performing up to par.

If C9 and FLY went in, even if they're my favorite teams right now, I'd have been scared for NA. Legitimately. TSM deserved the wins, and did NA proud.

MatthewRT2Jul 9, 20173 votes

Yeah ikr NA bronze is like EU plat.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

BigBellBruteJul 9, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Yeah ikr NA bronze is like EU plat.

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

EUW plat is much more toxic.

TheSingularityJul 9, 20172 votes

Not as toxic as the whole of OCE

OCE challenger=bronze anywhere else.

QuinnovaJul 9, 20171 votes

second part is true, but OCE isn't really toxic compared to some other places

Gottfried StutzOct 14, 20173 votes

Nice try NA, probably next time ;) EU > NA

Stars ShaperOct 14, 20171 votes

It's a Necro... that 0-10 though xD

BeastmanrulesJul 8, 20172 votes

Svenskeren and Bjergsen are both european so i don't know wth you guys are talking about EU>EU

DJMason88Jul 9, 20174 votes

Didn't Doublelift end up carrying the last game?

ntbcoolJul 9, 20177 votes

and they know their region is shit and dipped as fast as they could.

LauchmelderJul 9, 20173 votes

NA just pays better

Not xPekeJul 9, 20173 votes

nah you NA just offers more money cus they need the imports lol.

slotterbackJul 9, 20172 votes

seems like EU needs more imports to me, considering their Korean imports can't carry whats left in the EU bin.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20172 votes

EU doesn't pay as well as NA, that's why lots of people move to NA. Just imagine if Bjergsen, Jensen, and Froggen had stayed in EU along with other decent upcoming midlaners that are there at the moment. NA couldn't even compete in the slightest. Alas NA pays ^^ so NA gets dem imports, especially top players from EU.

The one thing I will say to give props to NA is that they have a more competitive league. EU only has a couple teams who are "good", the rest are just trash. So the top teams don't actually face real opposition and start to slack and basically don't improve as much as they could.

Also, you kinda missed the point of my comment. You have several imports from EU that are SHINING in NA. Hence my comment saying that NA "needs" imports. Obviously now that NA has those imports you say that EU needs more.. that's not the point though lol. NA took them from here in the first place.

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20172 votes

Several = 3?

Really I think its just 2 but I'll give you Froggen if you want.

Breg and Jen are the only two worth mentioning. Sven is prolly the worst jungler in NA atm, if not the worst dam close to the bottom.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

Even if it's just 2 or 3, or more, or less, how many NA players do EU teams go after?

Also it's not just strictly EU players, for example NA has also imported Ryu, who had just resurged and showed he is still a decent player in his last split and Worlds in EU. They then took him in NA.

They're taking players from EU and ~~have barely any true NA stars~~. Or better, they do but many of them get outshined by the EU imports.

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20172 votes

Again, you not going after Na (Junglers) that's your fault not ours.

How can you complain about NA being imports and us taking your imports?

Outside of Mid, I'd say our players stack up well with the imports - Hauntz/Darshawn, Contractz/Mike/Ark/Inori/Meteos/Xmithie/Dardoch - DLift and Sneaky - Smoothie and Bio. We can break it down further if you'd like but the point is our homegrown talent is still good enough to keep up with the imports.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

Yeah I get that, and I can't deny it but for example you also took Huni and Reignover from one of the best FNC teams of all time. (random example) What you're not considering is that not only are you taking imports, but you're taking them away from your arch rivals. There's an important difference in that.

See, if you were just adding an import player from any other region, then w/e. You're not only adding a '+' to your own team, but you're adding a '-' to the EU team because they lost that player. Then it's easy to say NA > EU. One thing is adding a player, another is removing him from a roster and adding THAT player to your own. The perspective is suddenly different if you look at the bigger picture. Get what I mean?

Sure, you're completley right, EU could be doing the same thing. Unfortunately because of money they don't do it. Also because the majority of players will go where they pay more unless they have a true desire to play for a specific team or a specific region. It's only logical.

MrHaZeYoJul 11, 20172 votes

I get what you're saying but that's honestly apart of sports.

Also I like Huni and RO couldn't make it out of NA for worlds last year, I find that a bit funny.

If you want to level the playing field you need to be able to do the same thing as those ahead of you, if you can't you will continue to free fall.

MrHaZeYoJul 9, 20178 votes

The problem with your statement is that America is founded on the ideals of diversity and being a cultural melting pot. Outside of Native Americans, we are all of another countries linage. Myself I'm mostly German with some Norwegian and Italian. Bjerg may of grew up in EU but he's play the majority of his career in NA, Sven is prolly what half here and half there at this point? Hauntzer, DLift, and Bio all did more then their share to win those games, Sven is prolly the worst player on the team and one of the worst Junglers in NA currently.

Maybe this is a good time for EU to stop and think and start bringing in imports before they fall even further behind. There's no shame in it really, our home grown junglers are better than yours and your mids tend to be better then ours. Although Hai and Pobelter are both fairly good, Hai may be on a downswing but him and C9 also came back swinging from being knocked out by FNC in 2013.

We also need to consider the size of EU, compared to NA, it's simply just illogical to think NA can have as many "Elite" players given how small our player base is in comparison to EUs or Chinas. If we looked at Elite homegrown talent per population, it'd prolly be much closer then you'd imagine.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The problem with your statement is that America is founded on the ideals of diversity and being a cultural melting pot.

Lol ^^.

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20172 votes

Lol well maybe not founded on the ideals of that, but they did become our ideals. We wanted to escape EU's reign over us, maybe Jensen, Bjerg, Sven, and Froggen felt the same way.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

how can you say that when your country is one of the most divided countries in the world that is still dealing with lots of racism and discriminations?

Maybe you wish it was truly founded on those ideals but in reality its not.

(not saying that's what you do or do not, talking in general)

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20172 votes

We're also the most diverse country in the world. Not everyone is going to like everyone that's life. I've met racist Europeans, it's the life we live. The fact of the matter though is America is a melting pot of dam near every culture. Like I said on a different post everyone here excluding Native Americans are from different countries somewhere down their family tree. Myself, I'm mostly German, with hints of Norwegian and Italian.

It's not always about where you came from, but where you will end up going, in the grand scheme of League, those players came to NA to try and farm a "weak region" for a chance at worlds, that hasn't always worked in their benefits. (See: Piglet, Rush, Reignover, Huni, etc). Sure Bjerg, Jen, Frog, and Sven are European descent, but so is 40-50% of America as a whole, people came here in the young days of the country searching for freedom (lol) and the "American Dream".

My next point is maybe EU has a lot more player base to pick through in comparisons to NA, if we looked at it as Elite player per population then we would have a closer number as to how many players NA really does develop in comparison to EU. The more shots you take the greater of a chance you'll have at making the basket.

Finally, EU just needs to accept it's time to start searching for imports and using the rights they have to do so. You can complain NA is 2/5s imports on dam near every team (I think CLG and Fly are the lone exceptions), but you have the same advantage as we do, you either just choose not to use it or can't afford too. EU produces pretty quality Mids, I'll give you that, but NA seems to produce better Junglers, maybe try dipping into our challenger pool or reserves and snatch some away. Cause I also watch EU games and always find myself thinking most of your junglers blow, shit I think TSM needs to send Sven home and grab a homegrown talent themselves, it could honestly be the difference for them. That's coming from a C9 fan who dislikes TSM.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

Yeah I see what you mean about people moving to NA.

Also true that EU has a higher number of players, by quite a large margin I think. So that's true too. But my issue is with a region bringing in players from another region and then arguing who is better. Not only did you take an imported player, but you also removed him from the other region you are comparing yourself too. So in addition to making yourself better, you also made the other side worse.

All these argument NA > EU, EU > NA are really stupid XD. Also because as far as actual history and Worlds competition EU > NA all the way. Let's see what happens this year. Maybe things will change.

I agree with your last paragraph though, they should start searching for better imports and spending more. That's the issue. They don't pay as well as in NA. I don't really like Sven either. And hey, my NA team is C9 all the way :). High five!

MrHaZeYoJul 11, 20172 votes

You just have to keep in mind we grew up with the NFL and NBA where foreign players are just a common thing. Specially the NBA, so to us Bjerg and Jensen being here and playing most of their careers here (3/4 of Bjegs pro career and all of Jensens pro career) is basically us accepting them as our Mid Laners. Whether they came here for the money or a better chance of success is irrelevant. It's like when LMQ came to NA, we all hated them cause they literally were just trying to roflstomp NA and go to worlds, they weren't coming here to start a legacy, just a easy trip to worlds, I don't feel that way about Jensen or Bjerg, I don't even remember any team heavily going after Jensen after his ban was lifted, but I most definitely could be wrong and am glad C9 got him.

I'm a H2K fan in Eu :P. C9 and H2K, guess I like the boys in blue mwha.

EDIT: Also we consistently bring imports which in turn makes everyone else better, better competition = better players.

AeszarckJul 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Svenskeren and Bjergsen are both european so i don't know wth you guys are talking about EU>EU

NA made them great. If they had stayed in EU, they wouldn't be as good as they are now.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20172 votes

Not entirely true.

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20171 votes

Bjerg; yes, Sven; no

Not xPekeJul 10, 20171 votes

what you mean?

'Yes' means NA made them great or 'No' means that?

MrHaZeYoJul 10, 20171 votes

I'd say NA did make Bjerg great, I think Sven hasn't progressed all since he came over, they were however both good in EU, I just think Bjerg has gotten much better.

Not xPekeJul 10, 20172 votes

Without a doubt, yes.

However, me saying 'not entirely true' was to the statement that they wouldn't be as good as they are now.

For example we can't say for certain if Bjerg would have been worse, the same, or even better had he played in EU right? There's just no way to know.

Can't deny NA made him great but to make the statement above is not entirely true and it's unprovable.

Jensen was already famous and praised and seen as a highly skilled player even before moving to NA, etc.

MrHaZeYoJul 11, 20171 votes

Your right, what ifs play a huge part in this, what do you honestly think though? TSM has changed every position around him to make sure he continues to grow as a player and succeed. What teams really did that for say Froggen.

Feb was great for FNC when he had Huni and RO and instead of making the bot lane better to make this team truly dominate, they got rid of the dynamic duo, essentially making FNC weaker and allowing G2 and H2K to be able to move into the top seeded spots. Granted now FNC is doing well again but are they? They got massively exposed last week.

NA has proven time and again that each org is willing to do what it takes to put the best teams they can on the rift, EU just doesn't seem to want to do that.

TSM with Bjerg has found a early gem in Hauntz who has turned into a monster, brought in 1 of the top 3 NA ADCs in DLift, and got a at the very least good domestic young support in Bio. Sven imo is the weak link and should be dropped next off season.

C9 has continued to try to build its team around Jensen while keeping 1 of the other 3 top NA ADs in Sneaky and also helping him by finding a top 3 domestic support in Smoothie.

These two orgs have found great mids from EU and made it their mission to put them in positions to succeed.

Even Echo Fox has made strides in improving Froggen's supporting cast, once they change the bot lane they should be fine.