is there a thematic reason why yasuo gets placed outside turret range during his R?

NodirjonSattarov·May 20, 2019·46 votes·17,329 views

I never understood the reason for this mechanic

143 Comments

TengenToppaGnarMay 20, 201947 votes

Cause weebs like their safety nets in sets of 3.

Passive that blocks damage
Wall that blocks projectiles
R that doesn't put you under turret range.

edit: in other words he's just one of Certainly T's overloaded champs. They have too many safety nets for bad plays. And When safety nets exist and bad plays don't, those safetys become a MASSIVE THREAT. Which is why his champs garner so much hate. Its like the reason I hated old Irelia. You start overpowering her, OH EAT THIS STUN! She's overpowering you, NO ESCAPE BEACH!

NodirjonSattarovMay 20, 20197 votes

lmaooo

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 21, 20193 votes

1.) His passive also breaks at ANY champion damage, meaning you just need to auto him before all in-ing. 2.) His wall also is on a 22 sec cd and can simply be walked around. 3.) His R sometimes puts you behind the champ and directly into turret range. Its extremely buggy and often doesn't work the way its supposed to.

There's literally no safety net. If there was, Yasuo would be considered an easy to play champion. He gets behind? Deals no damage and is squishy af until everyone's full build.

Ofc you could also just join the hive mind of this website and just refuse to learn counterplay and instead just complain.

3TWarriorMay 21, 20192 votes

if you are in auto attack range, you are in his range unless there are somehow no minions on your side

while you can walk around his wall, it provides protection from all directions and only a single pixel of an ability has to clip it to negate the ability entirely, auto attacks as well

yasuo might not be "easy to play" but he does have above a 10% pick rate and above a 50% ban rate... and he has gone up to 20% pick rate before

"no safety net" all he has to do is get 2 crit items and he has reached late game with the freedom to build however he wants afterward. His kit also scales off of attack speed, which crit items helpfully provide. He has point and click crowd control when his tornado is up, one of the best shields in the game, a windwall that blocks any projectiles, excessive mobility in lane, an ultimate that RANDOMLY PLACES HIM AND HIS TARGET OUTSIDE OF TURRET RANGE(oh, and for fun, it also refreshes his shield)

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 22, 20191 votes

Ranged champions exist btw Nope even with 2 crit items he's very squishy. Only Q scales off of attackspeed and he doesn't have point and click CC as his tornado requires aim to him. His shield is easily broken, his windwall blocks only horizontally and early on his E is on a long cd inbetween dashes. Ultimate often places him in turret range.

SyrileMay 22, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oHrMAAma,comment-id=0000000100010000,timestamp=2019-05-22T00:45:12.997+0000)

Ranged champions exist btw Nope even with 2 crit items he's very squishy. Only Q scales off of attackspeed and he doesn't have point and click CC as his tornado requires aim to him. His shield is easily broken, his windwall blocks only horizontally and early on his E is on a long cd inbetween dashes. Ultimate often places him in turret range.

All of this is wrong? He does not have to actually hit you with a tornado. He can dash onto you and no skill shot is required. Yasuo's shield is insanely strong and he can punish almost anyone who comes to poke it away. Yasuo's E has no cooldown at all on different targets, making this invalid if you even take a half second to see if there is more than one minion. Windwall blocks a huge area, for way too long of time and can block almost everything. Ultimate does not place him in turret range ever. Actually, literally, ever. He has to make that decision himself. The ultimate tries its best to place him outside of it. The game cannot stop you from making every bad decision.

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 24, 20191 votes

None of this is wrong. If he dashes into you, the range is a lot shorter and easier punished as he walks into trade distance.His shield once again breaks with any champion damage. So its pretty easy to break it. Windwall does not block a "huge chunk" and does not move. Therefore all you have to do is right click around it. Pretty easy really. Seeing as how you've clearly never played Yasuo, I'll tell you that his ult does place you in turret range at times. More often than you think. If the enemy is in turret range and you ult him from extremely far away, it will place Yasuo behind the enemy champion, causing Yasuo to take 3 turret shots. If you ult while in the turret, you also once again take turret shots. It is only when the enemy champ is in lane, that it will not. Even then, if the champ is close enough, you blink behind him and take 3 turret shots.

Yasuo cannot E on the same target twice, meaning that inbetween targets, he is essentially immobile. His only mobility spell relies on having enemies. Early game, the cd for E'ing onto someone twice is extremely long.

SyrileMay 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oHrMAAma,comment-id=000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-24T04:29:04.469+0000)

None of this is wrong. If he dashes into you, the range is a lot shorter and easier punished as he walks into trade distance.His shield once again breaks with any champion damage. So its pretty easy to break it. Windwall does not block a "huge chunk" and does not move. Therefore all you have to do is right click around it. Pretty easy really. Seeing as how you've clearly never played Yasuo, I'll tell you that his ult does place you in turret range at times. More often than you think. If the enemy is in turret range and you ult him from extremely far away, it will place Yasuo behind the enemy champion, causing Yasuo to take 3 turret shots. If you ult while in the turret, you also once again take turret shots. It is only when the enemy champ is in lane, that it will not. Even then, if the champ is close enough, you blink behind him and take 3 turret shots.

Yasuo cannot E on the same target twice, meaning that inbetween targets, he is essentially immobile. His only mobility spell relies on having enemies. Early game, the cd for E'ing onto someone twice is extremely long.

Except this is completely wrong. First, his windwall is not small. You cannot just "auto around it." If Yasuo knows how to play he can force you to not CS or block skill shots with it to punish you. Moving to a different spot is possible, but can be a very bad position.

The entire thing about this thread disproves your comment about it "commonly putting Yasuo in the turret" because that is actually what it prevents from happening. If you are under the turret you clearly ulted at a really bad position.

E works on multiple targets with no cooldown. So, unless you literally do not leave minions alive, you can dash multiple times with no cooldown. These are very basic concepts for a Yasuo player.

As for playing him... Pretty sure I mentioned playing him in this very thread? But no matter what, everything you said here is wrong. So if you are playing him, you are playing him incorrectly.

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 25, 20191 votes

1.) You can walk around it. I've tested this in customs with a friend. You press behind the wall, or to the left/right of it 2.) If a Yasuo is using his windwall simply to deny CS, then he is bad and left vulnerable. Level 1 wall lasts 3.75 secs and is on cd for 26 seconds. That gives you 22.25 secs where he cannot block any skillshots. Easy winnable trade there. 3.) And everyone else who is a Yasuo main or was at one point, knows that unlike you gremlins that have never touched the champ and simply shit on him, he does in fact get placed into turret often. There is no line of code that prevents this from happening. There is a line of code that attempts to place him out but this itself is extremely buggy and does not happen. 4.) Once again, Yasuo cannot dash to the same target twice. I've said this twice now. There is an extremely long cd between dashing through minion A and dashing through it again. 5.) If you have played him, then you obviously haven't played him enough. Your entire stance is around the fact that Yasuo has broken abilities with an unbeatable safety net. I simply ask this. If he is so safe and easy to play, then why do so many Yasuo's often feed? Why hasn't he been nerfed if he's so strong? Why isn't he pick or ban? Why isn't he being played constantly in competitive levels of play every time?

SyrileMay 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oHrMAAma,comment-id=00000001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T02:13:00.319+0000)

1.) You can walk around it. I've tested this in customs with a friend. You press behind the wall, or to the left/right of it 2.) If a Yasuo is using his windwall simply to deny CS, then he is bad and left vulnerable. Level 1 wall lasts 3.75 secs and is on cd for 26 seconds. That gives you 22.25 secs where he cannot block any skillshots. Easy winnable trade there. 3.) And everyone else who is a Yasuo main or was at one point, knows that unlike you gremlins that have never touched the champ and simply shit on him, he does in fact get placed into turret often. There is no line of code that prevents this from happening. There is a line of code that attempts to place him out but this itself is extremely buggy and does not happen. 4.) Once again, Yasuo cannot dash to the same target twice. I've said this twice now. There is an extremely long cd between dashing through minion A and dashing through it again. 5.) If you have played him, then you obviously haven't played him enough. Your entire stance is around the fact that Yasuo has broken abilities with an unbeatable safety net. I simply ask this. If he is so safe and easy to play, then why do so many Yasuo's often feed? Why hasn't he been nerfed if he's so strong? Why isn't he pick or ban? Why isn't he being played constantly in competitive levels of play every time?

So, your entire argument is to ignore logic, including the programming code that the entire thread is about, and to hurl insults rather than to actually listen to or present facts? Gotcha.

Also, you literally said you can auto through a Windwall by clicking behind it or to the sides? Which is false.

The rest, I have already addressed and is demonstrably true.

Just because you have "said something twice" means nothing. I explicitly stated, if you are not leaving a minion to dash back to for an escape, you are playing Yasuo wrong. Period. And you are. If you are dashing around constantly to look like you are awesome, you are doing it wrong. This is one of the very basic things that any high level player that uses Yasuo will tell you.

All of that about pick/ban? He has the highest pick/ban rate in the game. As for not being nerfed? Simple. Why has Riot not nerfed Talon, despite being top-tier in mid lane for 18 months? Because they do not care. Yasuo sells skins.

If you wish to discuss things, I suggest the insults stop and actually use facts of I will not long bother with you.

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 25, 20191 votes

1.) I never said you can auto through a wall. I said you can WALK around it. 2.) I didn't actually insult you lmao? It's not my fault that you think arguing against a point and insulting are the same thing. 3.) https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.banRate&order=descend Morg has the highest ban rate, followed by Zed. https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend He's not even top 20 in pick rate.

Don't spout random opinions and actually do research. Talon only spiked in winrate after 9.7https://champion.gg/champion/Talon/Middle?

Not the "18 months" you were talking about.

So if Riot only wants strong champs to be champs with a lot of skins, then why aren't champs like Lux, and Annie the highest tier champs?

SyrileMay 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oHrMAAma,comment-id=0000000100010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-25T02:28:34.649+0000)

1.) I never said you can auto through a wall. I said you can WALK around it. 2.) I didn't actually insult you lmao? It's not my fault that you think arguing against a point and insulting are the same thing. 3.) https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.banRate&order=descend Morg has the highest ban rate, followed by Zed. https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend He's not even top 20 in pick rate.

Don't spout random opinions and actually do research. Talon only spiked in winrate after 9.7https://champion.gg/champion/Talon/Middle?

Not the "18 months" you were talking about.

So if Riot only wants strong champs to be champs with a lot of skins, then why aren't champs like Lux, and Annie the highest tier champs?

You did actually, very clearly said that.

And again, just because you do a poor job of insulting someone by calling them a "gremlin" does not mean you are not intending that to be an insult.

LolAlytics has Yasuo at a 50.15% ban rate at Platinum+ ranks. And has been around that level for a while after they nerfed him. Prior to the nerf, he was post 90% pick/ban. I posted several times about this. Even with a 50%+ ban rate, he has a 14%+ pick rate.

Lux, mind you, is currently sitting at the top tier of mid lane and has been for a few patches. Talon has been far far longer than 3 patches. That is blatantly false. He has been at the top tier or second tier for well over a year.

That website you are using tends to have some very wild claims. However, even on that website, it contradicts your claim. Talon was lower on that specific patch with a winrate and pick rate very similar to 9.8 on the 9.6 patch. You happen to not mention that, eh?

So basically, again, everything here is demonstrably wrong.

MAGE ITEM KEKWMay 21, 20192 votes

hEy SiR, I aM Of tHe wEeB cUltUre! hOw dArE U mAKe jOke AbOuT uS. Bbbbakaa

The thigh guyMay 20, 201939 votes

Because they had to further idiot proof him. 7 dashes per minion wave, a shield for walking and a wall that invalidates a huge chunk of threats wasn’t safe enough for such a high skill cap champion.

Sir SaltarinMay 20, 201911 votes

To be fair you need very high IQ to play Yasuo on a decent level

Luxanna AhegaoMay 20, 20197 votes

[deleted]

ZackTheWaffleManMay 20, 201912 votes

r/wooosh

SaiannaMay 20, 20198 votes

I'm quite sure Salt was dead serious on this one...

Luxanna AhegaoMay 21, 20192 votes

he was serious

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 21, 20191 votes

I think you're really dumb if you think this. An 0/3 Yasuo will be extremely behind unless he's farming well. Crit items are extremely expensive and thats why if Yasuo isn't ahead, he's useless. If Yas gets statik while you're building your 2nd/3rd item and you're still losing, it's just you thats bad.

Same with Jax, Jax isn't strong with just trinity if he's behind.

This mentality that a champ is broken simply because he deals a lot of damage is why no one respects people on Boards.

3TWarriorMay 21, 20191 votes

how would yasuo be behind 2000 to 6000 gold? that's next to impossible...

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 22, 20192 votes

No it's not. Its pretty easy considering how squishy you are early on

3TWarriorMay 23, 20191 votes

in order to be behind 1200, you would have to die 4 times and lose most of your CS, after that, you're not worth much, especially with the new bounty system...

2000 would require jungler intervention or roams from the opponent, and if the jungler fed them that much in addition to what you were losing...the game was lost already

you can lose a lot with plates, maybe reach that 2000, but you have to be losing almost absolutely in order for that to happen, which again, is very unlikely unless you just don't know what you're doing

Cotten Eyed JoeMay 24, 20191 votes

You also have to compensate for how much gold and cs your opposing laner is getting.

3TWarriorMay 24, 20191 votes

thought I mentioned that with my CS comment

SaiannaMay 20, 20197 votes

actually, that's 8 dashes if you count enemy champion that's about to be slaughered by yasuo undodgeable E+Q+R+Q combo

goodiesohhiMay 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

actually, that's 8 dashes if you count enemy champion that's about to be slaughered by yasuo undodgeable E+Q+R+Q combo

You can still flash the first eq so idk about undodgeable. Or... You can simply not get in range of an eq.

SaiannaMay 22, 20193 votes

So you say I gotta burn my flash each wave, or stay far, far away from even farming?

Hot LeBlanc YuriMay 20, 201927 votes

Because Yasuo is a extremely high skill cap champ that requires plenty of thinking and mechanics, and forcing Yasuo players to think about how many times they pressed Q AND turret range is just too much for them.

[sg-janna]

HotarµMay 20, 201910 votes

If he hits a knockup at the edge of the tower, he should definitely stay outside of tower range. It doesn't make sense for him to get punished for having positional advantage. Every other champion is able to attack/ult freely at the edge of a tower's range, Yasuo should be able to as well.

However, IMO it needs to be touched up a little bit. I've been ulted near the base of my tower and Yasuo still got pushed out of the tower's range. I wish I had recordings of it, but unfortunately I don't. My experiences with that interaction have been pretty dodgy.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 20, 20199 votes

Because otherwise he's eating towershots without healing for a potentially very minor miscalculation.

NyarlathοtepMay 20, 201928 votes

{quoted}

Because otherwise he's eating towershots without healing for a potentially very minor miscalculation.

Then he shouldnt turret dive. If you are afraid of taking damage dont dive. No reason to make an exception to an already special child.

hhaavviikkMay 20, 201923 votes

{quoted}

Because otherwise he's eating towershots without healing for a potentially very minor miscalculation.

sounds like the possible consequences of ulting someone who is under a tower

SithesisLordMay 21, 20192 votes

So if he didn't have it, he'd actually have to commit to tower dives?

Oh the horror, the horror.

DuskDaUmbreonMay 21, 20192 votes

Imagine if you had to take 3+ tower shots because your opponent was just outside of their turret. That's what the reposition is for. It puts him behind them normally, the reposition makes him not be behind them.

JaspersMay 21, 20191 votes

Imagine if you ult as Vi and they flash/dash/walk slowly to tower. Zed's ult puts him just behind the enemy too, even if they are under tower. 1 rule for 1 champ, different for everyone else.

You don't have to press R as Yasuo if they are under tower, it's part of the high risk high reward idea but if there is a safe guard and there is no risk high reward, why not press it huh?

DuskDaUmbreonMay 22, 20192 votes

Zed also has a fucking blink to get out and is only going to take a single shot.

Vi also doesn't go behind the enemy champion, just on top of them. Vi also has another dash out and is generally more durable than Yasuo. And her R is a second, not two, which comes out to 1 turret shot rather than three. (Or two rather than four, depending on how turret shots work).

ModAcademy KaynMay 21, 20197 votes

The comments in this thread are exactly why no one takes this board seriously.

1. People just calling Yasuo player weebs
1. People insulting the intelligence of Yasuo players
1. People just listing his kit details

What actual discussion is happening in this thread? There are three people I've seen actually address the OP's question, Hotaru, Bard and Pikafox. Everything else is just an insult towards Yasuo players, or blind hatred towards CT. And judging from everyone else's comments, it kinda just sounds like people think he's able to ult someone touching their turret's butt, and be placed outside of it. That's not how it works.

It's only on the edge of turrets where this tends to happen, this is the intended environment for which it should be happening. Why? Because Yasuo has zero control over where he goes with his ult. He doesn't teleport directly inside of the target, he blinks to whatever spot the game puts him. Without the addition, as Bard stated, you could ult someone whose out of turret range, and potentially get killed by turret because the game decided to put you directly inside of them.

Now, the question could certainly be asked, could you make this more like Kai'sas Ult, where you activate the ult at a certain place and that's where you'll go to. That's not a bad idea, but of the occasional times Yas will need to ult you while you're barely outside turret range, I fear you're giving him even more strength. Being able to choose the side of a champion you're ulting gives him more safety later in the game, and takes away the risk of Yasuo ulting into a team. He can position himself, safer, towards the closest side of his team every time.

NodirjonSattarovMay 21, 20192 votes

honestly, no one cares about the boards. people come to vent. nothing actually comes from board suggestions. so far, anything that riot has done that was influenced by the "community" was actually from high elo players or well known players (ie; hashinshin). a perfect example is the shaco change suggestion made by pinkward and some other popular shaco streamer. I'm sure the suggestion has been made before by someone on the boards but like I said before, no one cares here.

ßlameMyADCMay 21, 20194 votes

I think the core issue with what OP adresses is that he does not receive much dmg from a turret even after the dive. He knows, his ult is a safe haven and if he plays it smart, which he inevitable will, because minion waves spawn forever, he pushes minion wave into the enemy turret, uses his ult, which he can basically achieve by literally diving onto a sort of low HP enemy, then denying the turret shot by going into ult immediately, perhaps dropping a Q ignite to finish a half HP mage off and then using the mage minions to dive back out, taking PERHAPS a second turret shot in the progress.

The only "counterplay" you get against that happens way earlier by either winning trade, or if you got a bad pick, not trade at all. Ive had good experiences using this guide: https://youtu.be/FZDr8IMqg0o

however, the counterplay proposed here is essentially, stay out of harms way or take a single trade as a mage and be prepared to get rekt because you are sitting on half of your HP or less, because you wanted to get a single farm for once.

Yasuo's finisher acts like an assasine, but his kit really doesn't seem like one and that's why it's so frustrating to play against.

Infinite movement, damage neglection, very little penalty for Yasuo, when he dives and an overall whopping attack speed (invoked by his Spam Q) + essentially point and click knockup make for a mixture of (Dashes) Lee Sin, Damage Neglection (Fizz), getting out of Turret range easily with very little hits (Zed), getting down a point and click knockup (Malphite R, but you have to "dash up" to someone)

5050BSMay 21, 20193 votes

really?....

I see a lot of comments that address the issue.

A lot find it as favoritism to Yasuo because there are other champs that have to play smart or risk taking 2-3 turret shots but Yasuo for some reason does not.

This is THE flaw with his design too. Other champs dont get the ez mode baked in to their kits. You can call it Yasuo hate but Riot, CT and the Balance team are not gods nor are they the best designers in the world. They OFTEN gets things wrong (as a lot of humans do).

note all the reverts and bug fixes and they have to do.

SirHydroMay 21, 20192 votes

Of course how else do you expect a Yasuo fanboy Moderator to act and behave? Clearly we all expect them to be ignorant and biased in everything they say. Did anyone expect any Yasuo fanboy ever to be capable of rational thought?

ModAcademy KaynMay 21, 20192 votes

"Favoritism" is not design, nor is it an explanation, when the original question is "Why does it work this way". The intention around the idea, is not the same as why other champions don't have it.

I don't see how potentially randomly getting screwed because something out of your control, decided to put you under turret when your opponent wasn't in turret range either. I fail to see how this applies to any other champion for 'Ez' mode, when Yasuo has no choice to where he ends up at, as I address in my post. If Yasuo had a choice to where he ended up in his Ult, or full control over his ult like every other champion, I'd be all for removing it, but since he does not, I understand why it exists. "Yas players need to git gud with their ult randomly placing them under turret" is not a sentiment I share.

I also never said Riot, CT, or the balance teams are gods or perfect. I address that the argument could be had you could make his ult like Kai'sas, i just think that could bring several problems with it. I feel I should clarify, my argument is only for when Yasuo hits a player outside their turret range, not in. If they are inside turret range, that's on the Yasuo, he should get hit, but the mechanic specifically should be in place for when your opponent isn't, so the animation doesn't fuck you. ~~Because you have no control over the animation~~

5050BSMay 22, 20194 votes

RekSai Gets placed behind his target too.

The choice is Do you ult or not.

Malzahar has to choose do I ult now in this team fight knowing Im locked and venerable for 2.5s or not.

Yasuo gets to Ult freely AND gets his shield refreshed AND it stuns ALL hit. It is one of the MOST safe ults in the game that puts you in melee range.

Imagine Malz ult stunning everyone in the zone and damaging them like it does now AND refreshing his Passive shield.

Thats Yasuo Ult.

SyrileMay 22, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Gets placed behind his target too.

The choice is Do you ult or not.

has to choose do I ult now in this team fight knowing Im locked and venerable for 2.5s or not.

Yasuo gets to Ult freely AND gets his shield refreshed AND it stuns ALL hit. It is one of the MOST safe ults in the game that puts you in melee range.

Skillz. Takes more skillz than anyone ever to choose to stun the entire enemy team and kill them all with one button push while shielding yourself and remaining safe, without even landing a skill shot yourself. All skillz.

That is what they will claim.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Sir SaltarinMay 20, 20196 votes

Cant wait for the Ryze nerfs, I'm excited

CrazyMonkeyCZMay 20, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oHrMAAma,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-20T15:02:44.319+0000)

Cant wait for the nerfs, I'm excited

Honestly? Ryze is too strong in high elo, he is no longer onetricks only champ. I’m excited as well.

Sir SaltarinMay 20, 20196 votes

Watching pro play with Ryze being the best split pusher in the game for yet another meta

[sg-ahri-1]

NodirjonSattarovMay 20, 20192 votes

I can't wait either! Another nerf just to still be able to beat people like you :)))

noddabestMay 21, 20195 votes

if it's there because it would make ''minor miscalculations too punishing'' why doesn't warwick's ult have it? if you ult someone even at the edge of turret range you will be put right in front of the target eating tower shots