Ekko JG Needs A Little Help

astralwit··24 votes·2,804 views

I've tried it multiple times with all manner of builds from semi-tanky such as Runic-IBG-Abyssal etc. to full AP like Runic-Nashor-LB, Runic-LB-Protobelt etc. I think overall, he's not far from being decent but still subpar. He's so bad early 1v1 that I even died to an Eve on equal items and gold ~ level 4.

His issues:

  1. while there are many clear tricks, he still takes a lot of damage early and has mana issues - even 3-5 armor could help him for the JG role... he gets beat up while almost all the meta junglers can clear at 80% HP. Something else that would help is also just buffing his innate AS 5%.
  2. He is squishy as hell building Runic Echoes and has no defense or CDR. If he used a few spells on a camp and he's not 6, he's likely just dead to a Rengar, Lee, Shaco etc. You can't count on W due tot he time it takes.
  3. Awkward itemization for CDR and mana. If you go LB 2nd to help with the mana issues, the squishiness compared to Protobelt is VERY punishing vs some team comps (such as with Zed, Talon etc.). If you go Protobelt, you basically have to take Blues from your mid. If you go IBG, it's fine but not really so suitable for a heavy AP build and it falls off hard in damage. You may ask, what about Rod of Ages or even Abyssal? Rod of Ages takes a long time to stack since you're already getting it delayed after Runic and on JG income. Plus, it doesn't have CDR. It's hard fitting in all the stats while going JG and also having the big ticket items. Liandry's back when it had 15 Mpen was really nice for a lot of the hybrid builds because it let you get just enough damage to be relevant. Now it's hard and the fact that Runic Echoes lacks CDR makes it annoying.

For example: Runic Sorc (but the JG really beats him up compared to Ninja) LB (good if snowballing and fixes mana issues + CDR but again a bit awkward if even or slightly behind since you get nearly 1-shout without ult. even by an AP Gragas) Protobelt VS Rabadon's

This build is fine but only 20% CDR and still squishy as hell. The HP is pretty meaningless with no resists. I'd really like an item sort of like Rod of Ages but with 20% CDR for AP mages.

Anyway, the bigger issue with Ekko is just that his early is awful and while his mid game is quite good, he falls off again late game because of how unreliable and squishy he is.

I realize I also suck at him but if I play a higher tier jungler of a similar style, like Evelynn, my performance is much better. CDR also doesn't matter on her much outside of her ultimate so I can adapt my builds more. For example, I might go LB one game and Liandry's another. I'm not so dependent on itemizing CDR & Mana as a core stat like on Ekko JG.

My advice: 5% more Innate AS + 5 base armor. I don't think this would affect mid so much but it would matter for JG. His JG's 47% winrate in Diamond+ so clearly not that good.

33 Comments

LaughingStapler9 votes

Maybe they could make his passive deal 250% bonus damage to monsters instead of the current 200%.

Or perhaps a better buff is to have his passive restore 20% (or whatever is an appropriate number) of missing mana vs monsters.

This I think would be just perfect for improving his JG without being at any risk of helping mid in any meaningful capacity. I guess you sometimes may want to do raptors but it's % missing mana and doin them would probably be breakeven in terms of mana or worse. The other risk may be that he'd just Q over the wall to get mana. The issue with this is the CD itself while still having time to catch the wave or pressure. If it actually is a problem though, just reduce the % missing mana return to something that would make it a net negative to use Q over raptors for that purpose. I'm pretty much 100% sure that halving it to 10% of missing mana return would make this quite unattractive overall. It costs 90 mana rank 5 so even if you use it for that purpose and have 1000 missing mana, you'd only get 10 mana more while using your CD (not having EQ combo up, possibly not having it for the wave etc.). Besides, Ekko gets Blue often anyway and doesn't have mana issues in mid because he takes Corrupting Potion + Dark Seal + Doran's while going LB 2nd item. I think being overly concerned about the Raptors mana return is a bit silly in practical terms.

Marothennan5 votes

I'll give you an even better one. Make it so his passive doesn't go on cooldown vs monsters. Whenever I used to play Ekko jungle that's what I felt fucked my clear the most

The Ecdysiast4 votes

Maybe because he wasn't designed to be a jungle and should be constrained to mid where he belongs.

If you think one champion should be able to jungle, mid, and top consistently then your opinion doesn't line up with Riot's. Your icon is 2014 so you should remember Nidalee.

Jinzo Torrance4 votes

AD Malzahar Jungle needs help, only reason he's an untouchable pushbot now is because people wanted to AD jungle with him using Voidlings and now he can't even do it anymore, AP is just straight up better than going AD and playing him jungle is borderline trolling.

Steelflame3 votes

Something else they could do is make his W passive always apply vs monsters regardless of %health. It would add a bit of extra damage and help him take out single target camps and the bigger monsters, which is by far the biggest issue he has. Or they could make the stun have an extended duration on monsters and perhaps some added flat damage to better enable healthy and fast clears, like how Eve's W has a significantly extended duration and damage added when used on a monster.

KlydeFrog3 votes

Why play ekko jungle when you can play ad morde jungle

Zed genius2 votes

Yeah Ekko jungle needs some help and so does aatrox support! Oh wait those are not their roles

Jet Sett1 votes

Yeah! Oh wait, Riot has already supported Ekko jungle with buffs straight to that role for him. Well, don't we just look like a bunch of jackasses who tried to be difficult pricks just because.

Zed genius1 votes

bonus damage to monsters in a kit doesn't mean they are supposed to jungle

LetYourSleepWane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oGmGF9nP,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-04-07T13:35:43.501+0000)

bonus damage to monsters in a kit doesn't mean they are supposed to jungle

They literally stated in the patch notes that it was to help his jungling. He was a viable JG even on release. Idk why you're trying to force him into your conception of what he should be.

Zed genius1 votes

unless riot manages to fk up once again and break him in the jungle he will never be a good and stable jungler, his kit is a solo laner's kit

Steelflame2 votes

The only thing that locks him out of the jungle that he used to do just fine was the increased cooldown on his passive. When they doubled his passive CD on EVERYTHING, it disproportionately hurt his jungle because that is the position he is proccing his passive on CD repeatedly. In lane, Ekko is fine with waiting an extra 3 seconds before engaging again, he probably wouldn't have gone in again anyway except in a hard all in just because he would want his CDs to do it.

Rìveń2 votes

Or... He can keep to the roles he was intended to play.

How about that one?

Just because I want to jungle on Vayne, that doesn't make her a jungler, and so Riot has no reason to give her better jungling capabilities.

Also, 5 additional base armor is an absolute crap ton.

zecastar2 votes

A big issue for me is just how much damage he takes from camps because his base armor is so low for a melee jungler. He has only 32 and it scales to a paltry 83. Compare him even to another squishy jungler like Evelynn. She starts with 37 and it scales to 96.5 (and she even kites camps to avoid damage). 5 armor is not that minor early. His W helps a little but not enough and it's still pretty mana intensive to use constantly (leaves you more vulnerable to invaders too). Also, while he eventually takes less damage from camps as his build progresses, it's still not negligible even 15 minutes into the game.

I think if Riot changes Machete and Talisman to work only based on missing mana and hp, it will be a terrible change for JG. The only champions that can function at let's say 70% and still gank well are tanks. Ekko cannot really do that because he's pretty squishy early (even if you try to go hybrid off tank for your team). That kind of change would just make any champion with spammable shields like Udyr or sustain OP. Everyone else would suffer vs those camps horribly so the change that would happen isn't going to be "let's be more aware of when we gank and more careful", it'll be, let's pick only champions who don't get bothered by this - such as Nunu. Having healing from the JG item even at higher HP values is an equalizer ~15 minutes in the game.

PrometheS1 votes

He's too weak early to make enough impact most games. Losing to nearly every countergank threat makes his options heavily restricted. If you want a farming jungler, there are also better ones at that like Shyvana, Yi. Ekko can go over walls and has a situational stun. These are nice things on a jungler but Jax also exists and he scales better while being tankier and not clearing worse. Jax has a more reliable AoE stun too.

Ekko's a fun champion but he needs help to be competitive as a jungler. I think he has a great snowball kit though so he's probably not too bad in SQ because some games you'll just pop off and smash faces.

Samflash31 votes

Can't say much about the other builds, but for Semi-tanky, build Wit's End as the core damage item/MR. You'll find yourself dealing consistent damage.

LaughingStapler1 votes

{quoted}

Can't say much about the other builds, but for Semi-tanky, build Wit's End as the core damage item/MR. You'll find yourself dealing consistent damage.

Where do you get your CDR? The components for Witt's End also seem a bit awkward for him. His AP scalings are good, it's just that AP items tend to lack the combination of HP + resists that he'd need in a single item slot.

Samflash31 votes

I found RoA, Zhonyas, and Wits End effective for me in a semi-tanky build w/ the option of IBG if I needed more armor/Cd. Also, I'm a cinderhulk user. I find having around 250AP allows me to be relevant without trading much in durability vs stickyness due to attack speed and IBG.

That said, to each their own.

SooFr0sty1 votes

I don't know what runes your running but I'm sure fleet foot wouldn't hurt.

Also could try starting hunters machete on first clear.

Fawksea1 votes

As an ekko jungle main, he's fine. if you want decent early clears just take precision with attack speed legend as your 2nd tree. the issue of him isn't him in particular, what ap junglers do you see being meta right now? yep none, not even elise. ap in the jungle needs help in general, don't overbuff ekko. he's fine without 40% cdr, if you can play him right, if you go for attack speed on the 2nd tree just take lich bane 2nd with rabadons right after then build accordingly to the game. if you want to have max damage, take sorcery absolute focus+gathering storm 2nd. it'll make your early clears a lil worse but if you think you can survive the early game, by 20 min you'll be doing assassin amounts of damage without a lot of items,( tip, don't go lich bane if you do this, you wont need it) edit: start with your bot side for a leash, mana is fine early. use hunters talisman to Q all of the chickens, they'll heal you for 150hp if you just hit em and leave them. i sometimes continuously do it while autoing red buff to invade the enemy with 80% hp

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

Ekko was never intended to be a jungler. If you want to play a champ in the jungle that was never intended for it, you deserve to struggle and fight tooth and nail to make it work. Riot favoritism to some champs in the jungle and not others is sickening. Ekko needs zero buffs.

LetYourSleepWane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oGmGF9nP,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-07T13:16:52.496+0000)

Ekko was never intended to be a jungler. If you want to play a champ in the jungle that was never intended for it, you deserve to struggle and fight tooth and nail to make it work. Riot favoritism to some champs in the jungle and not others is sickening. Ekko needs zero buffs.

He was even buffed 2x specifically for jungle. I assume it's a role they want him to be competent in. It's also a role that fits his kit and I don't think it makes sense to limit him. Restricting him to mid makes him less accessible and also makes the game less interesting.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

buffing champs to allow them to jungle when they werent designed to shows favoritism and only causes power creep for them. i love tahm kench jungle but i know its ass and i don't expect riot to specifically buff him for it, nor am i disapointed when they don't.

if ekko gets massively increased damage vs jungle monsters, why doesn't talon? he's got a kit that could potentially be good for ganking and clearing, but he doesnt get special treatment on his passive like ekko does. why doesn't gnar, or vel'koz, or braum for that matter? once you start arbitrarily buffing or changing a champion's kit to fit other roles they weren't designed for you start to go down a slippery slope.

certain champs should not get special treatment. ekko being buffed for no reason whatsoever in order to be able to jungle is special treatment.

LetYourSleepWane1 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oGmGF9nP,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2018-04-07T18:07:06.377+0000)

buffing champs to allow them to jungle when they werent designed to shows favoritism and only causes power creep for them. i love tahm kench jungle but i know its ass and i don't expect riot to specifically buff him for it, nor am i disapointed when they don't.

if ekko gets massively increased damage vs jungle monsters, why doesn't talon? he's got a kit that could potentially be good for ganking and clearing, but he doesnt get special treatment on his passive like ekko does. why doesn't gnar, or vel'koz, or braum for that matter? once you start arbitrarily buffing or changing a champion's kit to fit other roles they weren't designed for you start to go down a slippery slope.

certain champs should not get special treatment. ekko being buffed for no reason whatsoever in order to be able to jungle is special treatment.

Kench was primarily a jungler on release. It was his best role by far. I'm sad Kench JG is in such a bad state now. Many champions can work in multiple roles and be officially supported for it. It takes extra work but it's quite doable. This isn't to say that ANY champion is suitable for it but especially the ones with good CC in their kits such as Ekko and Kench make sense.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

{quoted}

Kench was primarily a jungler on release. It was his best role by far. I'm sad Kench JG is in such a bad state now. Many champions can work in multiple roles and be officially supported for it. It takes extra work but it's quite doable. This isn't to say that ANY champion is suitable for it but especially the ones with good CC in their kits such as Ekko and Kench make sense.

back that claim up lol. tahm was designed to be a top laner with support capabilities. he has shifted to primarily a support due to an evolved appreciation for allied devour.

DW Diana1 votes

I don't play ekko jg but have a friend that does. He tends to build his smite then protobelt. Makes his gank a clear much cleaner. Also chilling smite for the gank is brutal with his W.

Revali1 votes

What're your runes?

The best runes for Ekko jg IMO is

Darkharvest/Electrocute Sudden Impact Zombie Ward Ravenous hunter

Resolve Revitalize Chrysallis

With these runes with talisman refillable you can clear quite easily and be at a healthy enough hp for a lvl 3 gank provided you start the camp that botlane leashes.

His buildpath is equally okay with a tankier or more damaging build with ibg/abyssal being your core defensive items with liandrys and void being your offensive ones with runic.

a more damaging build is something akin to runic/sorc/lb.

53011 votes

Thoughts on arcsecond's build?

He starts machete instead of talisman and goes sorcery instead of resolve

LetYourSleepWane2 votes

[{quoted}](name=guccì gang,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oGmGF9nP,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-04-08T00:10:58.912+0000)

Thoughts on arcsecond's build?

He starts machete instead of talisman and goes sorcery instead of resolve

It's a good and not super expensive hybrid build but he has run into a lot of trouble once people in Challenger started to exploit Ekko's weak early. I think it's especially nice mid-game but falls off quite hard after. Over his last 15 Ekko games, he has only won 2 and I think he has given up on him for top Challenger. It seems he plays Nidalee & Rek'Sai instead now. Still, it's probably quite viable till the very highest levels. Although, there are better options than Ekko JG. Arcsecond used to play him when his tank build was really good a very long time ago. He has a lot of history with Ekko.

Revali2 votes

It's good, but it falls short early on and you're clear isn't exactly the cleanest or healthiest even for ekko's standards with that build as it takes a little bit of time for the attack speed to come online. you get more benefit from talismans aoe healing against camps like raptors wolves and krugs.

His build is pretty good at doing the buff camp buff basic clear currently. but gets beat up more and is slower most likely. Ive never used it but I don't think its super good for reasons mentioned above, even more from your w and talisman with revitalize

LetYourSleepWane1 votes

{quoted}

What're your runes?

The best runes for Ekko jg IMO is

Darkharvest/Electrocute Sudden Impact Zombie Ward Ravenous hunter

Resolve Revitalize Chrysallis

With these runes with talisman refillable you can clear quite easily and be at a healthy enough hp for a lvl 3 gank provided you start the camp that botlane leashes.

His buildpath is equally okay with a tankier or more damaging build with ibg/abyssal being your core defensive items with liandrys and void being your offensive ones with runic.

a more damaging build is something akin to runic/sorc/lb.

I haven't tried that but wouldn't your clear be significantly worse going Resolve?

Revali1 votes

9 starting ap with resolve amplifying your aoe health regeneration from talisman and pots ticking. it isn't the best but its probably the healthiest clear for ekko.

exigentomic1 votes

{quoted}

9 starting ap with resolve amplifying your aoe health regeneration from talisman and pots ticking. it isn't the best but its probably the healthiest clear for ekko.

I can see that being a decent choice into invading junglers. I really struggle vs Yi and Udyr as Ekko. They just outfarm and outscale me but I also don't do much early due to how much damage and mana I use when clearing. Plus, the W is super unreliable for ganks (at least for me).

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