I build AD so it does physical damage. Corki deals 90% magic damage. Adaptive damage runes should match that.
EDIT: I'm not talking about Corki's concept. I love that he's a magic damage ADC and it makes room for stuff like Talon/Zed mid if Corki goes bot. It's fantastic. My problem is that all the adaptive damage runes STILL do physical damage on Corki.
LaughingStapler3 votesI asked Riot about this and they said it works fine because Corki's a hybrid champion. This isn't really true anymore. He's a magic damage ADC opening up new comps. He's hybrid in the same way that TF is hybrid while building full AP. Corki does 87% magic damage and so does TF.
Whether or not they intend to do something about this so he can have the same array of choices is a separate question but there's no doubt it currently gimps all the choices dealing "adaptive damage" (even if perhaps they are still the best options for him). In fact, it would be great if they were manual damage so I can put it to magic myself if the game doesn't understand my intentions or the champion's kit. This could be a little knob in the rune pages at champ select.
In WW's case, it's more valid since he is a true hybrid champion and you don't itemize magic penetration anyway. However, it would still be great if the player could have a choice whenever this "adaptive damage" malfunctions or just doesn't work as desired. Ideally, the game would just look at your build/abilities and give you the highest damage option vs a generic target with let's say 100 MR and 100 armor.
Foxynth2 votesAdaptive damage means you get one or the other based on your numbers :v It is subject to change when your AD jumps higher than your AP
astralwit2 votesAdaptive damage means you get one or the other based on your numbers :v It is subject to change when your AD jumps higher than your AP
Yes, but it's useless for it to be physical on Corki - a magic damage dealer. It doesn't matter that I have more AD. He doesn't actually do much physical damage even if he builds full AD so this is just really weird with his kit. He's not a cookie cutter champion. Adaptive needs to consider your actual damage type not just raw stats.
Foxynth2 votesSorry that I don't play Corki but if that's the case, then... why build AD on Corki in the first place?
exigentomic1 votesSorry that I don't play Corki but if that's the case, then... why build AD on Corki in the first place?
I hope you're trolling... He's an ADC that has a passive to do magic damage and his AP ratios have been nerfed heavily. It isn't viable except building as an ADC. If you're not trolling, just look up his kit.
Foxynth2 votesAgain, I apologized that I don't play corki.
Jinzo Torrance2 votesThen what the fuck is the OP talking about?
He builds AD on Corki but wants AP because Corki deals magic damage, what?
MrHaZeYo2 votesIt's the way Corki works lol. Builds AD, As, and Crit but his passive converts 80% of his Aa damage from physical to magical.
exigentomic2 votes[{quoted}](name=Cinquino Show,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KsqTTsbQ,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-10T03:35:55.994+0000)
Then what the fuck is the OP talking about?
He builds AD on Corki but wants AP because Corki deals magic damage, what?
The OP is talking about ALL the ADAPTIVE damage masteries like Electrocute or Press the Attack actually doing PHYSICAL damage on Corki simply because Corki buys AD.
MrHaZeYo1 votesHe's a adc, you you build him as such, his passive converts 80% of his damage into magical damage
Tenth Leper2 votesDoesn't his e still reduce armor? And isn't mixed damage good?
Meep Man1 votesE reduces both armor and magic resist.
Mysticman892 votesMost of the adaptive sources off the top of my head are giving adaptive AD/AP, rather than doing adaptive magic/physical damage directly. Some scale with either AD or AP depending on what results in the most damage (not necessarily the one that is numerically greater) output, although you'd want that, since if doing mixed damage results in more damage than all magic, than surely thats a good thing?
Also, why do you want to do majority magic damage, particularly as corki? Corki usually doesn't get to build void staff until quite late, so you generally want opponents to resist the urge to build MR, rather than giving them even more reason to.
zecastar1 votesMost of the adaptive sources off the top of my head are giving adaptive AD/AP, rather than doing adaptive magic/physical damage directly. Some scale with either AD or AP depending on what results in the most damage output, although you'd want that, since if doing mixed damage results in more damage than all magic, than surely thats a good thing?
Also, why do you want to do majority magic damage, particularly as corki? Corki usually doesn't get to build void staff until quite late, so you generally want opponents to resist the urge to build MR, rather than giving them even more reason to.
I haven't seen Corki buy Void in a single competitive game either at Worlds or during the normal season. He gets so much more MS/durability/damage vs squishies from other stuff. Corki's much better at optimizing that rather than tank damage. Moreover, crit. itself is such a damage multiplier that you need something like 150 MR+ for Void to be better.
However, HE STILL BUYS SORCS and that makes it vastly preferable to have Electrocute or others do magic damage.
Mysticman891 votesIt's generally a 6th item as I understand corki builds.
Electrocute does whichever does more damage, not necessarily whichever he built more of. If it's doing physical, it suggests he gets more damage from that, despite having the little bit of flat magic pen.
zecastar3 votesMost of the adaptive sources off the top of my head are giving adaptive AD/AP, rather than doing adaptive magic/physical damage directly. Some scale with either AD or AP depending on what results in the most damage (not necessarily the one that is numerically greater) output, although you'd want that, since if doing mixed damage results in more damage than all magic, than surely thats a good thing?
Also, why do you want to do majority magic damage, particularly as corki? Corki usually doesn't get to build void staff until quite late, so you generally want opponents to resist the urge to build MR, rather than giving them even more reason to.
To be fair, it might be an intended anti-synergy since magic damage tends to be stronger early game anyway because people have less MR than they do Armor. It's still awkward though and dissuades some champions from those choices. It would be better if it just calculated your highest damage type on the fly but that might be too resource intensive. If it could just be like you say Electrocute is and just give you the one that does more damage, that wouldn't be bad either.
Mysticman891 votesIt is giving the one that does more damage, at least according to wikis and tooltips.
(Calculating a champs highest damage type done in a given game is something the game already does for camille.)
Theres basically 3 ways the game could handle it:
If AD is highest, always do physical damage. If AP is highest, always do magic damage.
Regardless of if AD/AP is higher, deal the damage type that results in most damage to the target.
Regardless of if AD/AP is higher, deal the damage type that the user has primarily dealt during the game.
The first one is simplest, and is good for resulting in correct itemization choices from players who don't realise that "AD damage" doesn't necessarily mean physical damage, and "AP damage" doesn't necessarily mean magic damage. Potentially results in non-optimal damage, and could lead to weird optimisations on hybrid champs and weird champs like corki.
The second one is what the game currently does, and favours the user since they don't have to think and can just build normally and get the optimal damage type. Potentially frustrating to opponents who want to counter build them.
The third one is best for players looking to reactively counter build, since if someone is a major magic damage threat, they can build MR and don't need to worry about the damage type from the rune adapting.
It sounds like the OP feels it works the first way, the intended reality is the second way, and the requested change is for it to work the third way (despite that being a nerf).
zecastar2 votesIt is giving the one that does more damage, at least according to wikis and tooltips.
(Calculating a champs highest damage type done in a given game is something the game already does for camille.)
Theres basically 3 ways the game could handle it:
If AD is highest, always do physical damage. If AP is highest, always do magic damage.
Regardless of if AD/AP is higher, deal the damage type that results in most damage to the target.
Regardless of if AD/AP is higher, deal the damage type that the user has primarily dealt during the game.
The first one is simplest, and is good for resulting in correct itemization choices from players who don't realise that "AD damage" doesn't necessarily mean physical damage, and "AP damage" doesn't necessarily mean magic damage. Potentially results in non-optimal damage, and could lead to weird optimisations on hybrid champs and weird champs like corki.
The second one is what the game currently does, and favours the user since they don't have to think and can just build normally and get the optimal damage type. Potentially frustrating to opponents who want to counter build them.
The third one is best for players looking to reactively counter build, since if someone is a major magic damage threat, they can build MR and don't need to worry about the damage type from the rune adapting.
It sounds like the OP feels it works the first way, the intended reality is the second way, and the requested change is for it to work the third way (despite that being a nerf).
It just says adaptive on Electrocute. I don't think it chooses the highest damage option. It's probably just based on your actual stats (AP vs AD) rather than anything else.
Mysticman891 voteshttp://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Electrocute_(Rune)
Adaptive: Deals either physical or magic depending on which would deal the most damage.
SirLime2 votesYeah, that's completely wrong. The person writing it probably just assumed that whatever stat you have the most of will mean that you deal that damage type. They need to change the wiki. I even tested this in customs. For example, if I go Press the Attack WW taking Sorcs and Witt's End vs a target dummy with 100 MR and 100 Armor, it still makes Press the Attack deal physical damage. Electrocute does the same.
Mysticman891 votesCurious what your other items were where you'd be expecting WW to do more magic damage in the first place.
edit: Ah, press the attack itself does a chunk of damage. In any case, I've been pretty careful to specify "according to wikis/tooltips", so if those are wrong, then naturally much of what I said isn't reflective of reality.
That said, corki being able to do both burst magic damage and burst physical damage simultaneously is a good thing for corki, so I'm still not convinced that changing things based on primary damage type is necessarily an advantage for corki.
wobarific1 votesCurious what your other items were where you'd be expecting WW to do more magic damage in the first place.
edit: Ah, press the attack itself does a chunk of damage. In any case, I've been pretty careful to specify "according to wikis/tooltips", so if those are wrong, then naturally much of what I said isn't reflective of reality.
That said, corki being able to do both burst magic damage and burst physical damage simultaneously is a good thing for corki, so I'm still not convinced that changing things based on primary damage type is necessarily an advantage for corki.
It absolutely is not under any somewhat realistic circumstances. It's always preferable for those to be magic damage because 1. it's harder to stack MR and base MR is lower 2. Corki gets 18 Mpen from Sorcs amplifying magic damage 3. If they were to massively MR stack such as Visage + Adaptive Helm + Mercs, Corki would either buy Void or, more likely, he'd try to attack the targets not stacking full MR (vs squishies, magic damage will always be more useful to you as Corki). Even if they had 3 MR stacking mega tanks, I'd STILL want it to be magic damage on Corki because I'd be doign my best to kill their ADC and Mid first while then trying to just sustain through the tanks. The whole "HYBRID SO OP CAN'T ITEMIZE!!!!" idea is virtually never correct. All the champions who have that damage profile fall off past mid game because penetration items suck on them (there is no dual penetration item). It's only useful mid game or vs squishies who can't afford 2 defensive items. Furthermore, Electrocute and others like it are not procced enough to actually alter your damage profile. It's not like because Electrocude does physical damage, my mid laner is going to need to build Zhonya's. It's maybe a 2-3% tilt in your overall damage to physical. I'm not trying to be rude, there are just some big misconceptions.
wobarific1 votesCurious what your other items were where you'd be expecting WW to do more magic damage in the first place.
edit: Ah, press the attack itself does a chunk of damage. In any case, I've been pretty careful to specify "according to wikis/tooltips", so if those are wrong, then naturally much of what I said isn't reflective of reality.
That said, corki being able to do both burst magic damage and burst physical damage simultaneously is a good thing for corki, so I'm still not convinced that changing things based on primary damage type is necessarily an advantage for corki.
WW does magic damage with his entire kit besides his base AD. Unless you're building a bunch of dedicated physical damage items such as BoRK, TF, Titanic Hydra etc., he'll do primarily magic damage.
TeCoolMage1 votesWell actually in the comps where corki fits in it's a bit more complicated than that. But first here's some inherent stuff on damage types:
The damage reduction from each point of resistance decreases the higher you get, so it's better to buy 30 armour and 30 magic resist if they deal 50-50 mixed damage, than to buy 60 magic resist against full magic damage. (pretending that you can somehow choose the enemy's damage composition.)
next up, comps:
majority AD with corki to balance out - easy. Magic damage heavily preferred Average random solo queue team - it's really random but there tends to be a mage mid and physical damage top and jungle, but it tends to be half AD half tanky, so I'd say not including ADC, teams are balanced in damage. Considering Corki, he deals mostly magical so maybe physical would be preferred if the mage is DPS and not burst (so tanks focus MR vs that target), otherwise burst mages don't really get through tank's hp bar too quickly. Can't think of much else...
Mysticman891 votesYeah, but consider why you want a mix of physical and magic damage on a team.
Being all physical or magical isn't inherently an issue on its own, the problem becomes it allows the enemy to stack MR or armour, meaning all of the team damage is getting reduced, and in the majority of cases that reduced damage is going to be less than a champ dealing the opposite damage type is likely to be doing. In other words, the reason you want mixed damage in a comp is so you can maximise your teams total damage output.
Currently, the adaptive damage does whatever damage type results in maximum damage output. If in a given circumstance that means it's doing say, 250 physical damage, it seems strange to want it to do the opposite kind if it means it'll do only 200 magic damage instead, since you'd just lose out on 50 damage, and since damage is ultimately what matters changing how it works for corki would be a nerf.
(I suppose it's possible that the point of the thread actually is "Nerf Corki! He shouldn't be able to do a big chunk of magic damage with his abilities/AA's and do a big chunk of physical damage via electrocute so people can't itemize against him!", and it may well shake out that that is a problem, but the impression I've largely gotten is they think it'd actually be better for corki if it did magic, which strikes me as a misunderstanding.)
TeCoolMage1 votesI agree for some parts of early game, but in teamfights definitely not
actually it is better for corki to have full magic damage, while you are right in that balancing out damage over a comp is good, in general if you deal both on the same abilities and attacks it's much more reduced if the tank is well aware of what corki does and builds both resists.
The point of spreading out damage over multiple champions is that if you have full magic damage the enemy's armour will be useless, and if you have full physical the enemy's magic resist will be useless, so it can be that the cassiopeia shreds the tank better because if that tank doesn't build armour, the full lethality kha'zix will actually plow through him like a squishy (if he does have armour, kha'zix just treats the tank like a tank... and doesn't try to combo him.). At best, it's like their resistance is reduced, at worst, they're the same - if both the kha'zix and the cassiopeia are 2v1-ing the tank, or if it's an ashe + cassiopeia and there's only one tank on the enemy team they can aim right now safely.
If Corki had it so that his abilities all did magic damage scaling on AD while his auto attacks all did physical damage, and he could cast without interrupting autos (so his typical teamfight would look something like attack moving vs the galio while quickly moving your cursor to aim R at the rammus, DPSing both simultaneously), then you'd definitely be right. Instead, all his abilities deal both types of damage, and he can only really DPS one target at a time.
Mysticman891 votesMy understanding of adaptive being "deals whatever would do more damage" is that if corki was DPSing a full armour rammus, electrocute would proc and do magic damage, and if that same corki switched targets and started DPSing a full MR galio, electrocute would proc and do physical damage. Another posts testing seems to indicate it doesn't work that way (which might be a bug, or it might bbe wiki being wrong, or maybe theres other factors), so it might be dumber about things, but it doing things the dumb way still might be to corkis advantage.
Consider that theres more sources of anti-magic burst than anti physical burst (nullfiying orb exists as a rune, but I don't think theres a physical counterpart, hexdrinker exists, etc.), so forcing it to be always magic for corki seems not ideal.
TeCoolMage1 votesIf it was 'whatever deals more damage', yeah for sure I agree. But I assumed it meant 'AP = magic, AD = physical', in which case I disagree with Corki being the same because his damage is set up like 'AP = magic, AD = mostly magic'.
There are more sources of anti-magic burst, yes, but not everyone will be taking these, and they're temporary. More importantly, Corki is a DPS champion first and foremost. The small shields are meant to give an extra ability cast in burst vs burst where one ability can decide who dies.
wobarific1 votesYeah, but consider why you want a mix of physical and magic damage on a team.
Being all physical or magical isn't inherently an issue on its own, the problem becomes it allows the enemy to stack MR or armour, meaning all of the team damage is getting reduced, and in the majority of cases that reduced damage is going to be less than a champ dealing the opposite damage type is likely to be doing. In other words, the reason you want mixed damage in a comp is so you can maximise your teams total damage output.
Currently, the adaptive damage does whatever damage type results in maximum damage output. If in a given circumstance that means it's doing say, 250 physical damage, it seems strange to want it to do the opposite kind if it means it'll do only 200 magic damage instead, since you'd just lose out on 50 damage, and since damage is ultimately what matters changing how it works for corki would be a nerf.
(I suppose it's possible that the point of the thread actually is "Nerf Corki! He shouldn't be able to do a big chunk of magic damage with his abilities/AA's and do a big chunk of physical damage via electrocute so people can't itemize against him!", and it may well shake out that that is a problem, but the impression I've largely gotten is they think it'd actually be better for corki if it did magic, which strikes me as a misunderstanding.)
That's just not true. Stop repeating it. It doesn't do what maximizes damage. It gives you the damage type of your highest stat (magic for AP or physical for AD). Maximizing damage has exactly zero bearing on the equation.
It would be great if it had on the fly calculations always picking the highest damage option vs any opponent you face. That would have perfect synergy with any build and kit (as would true damage) but it's not what happens.
TeCoolMage1 votesIt should be put in corki's passive, 'adaptive magic/physical damage will always take magic damage, adaptive ap/ad is unaffected'