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FIDDLE is still AWFUL (go play him 20+ games in Plat+ and report back to me if you disagree)

astralwit··47 votes·3,353 views

I don't care if his winrate is nearly 50%; it's certainly not because he's good. It's because the people who play him are very dedicated and have an insane number of average games (more than any other champ).

He's straight garbage though and it's pretty frustrating. His clear is slow as hell and requires massive mana expenditure. He's either squishy or his damage tickles. His ult. has a ton of counterplay via knockbacks, dashes, or just warding. Without ult. he does virtually nothing. He seems like one of the most useless junglers in the game now and only seems effective if his team's already ahead (thus giving you a huge vision + item advantage). I have probably 250+ Fiddle games over the last few seasons and I've never seen him in a more pathetic state. If I go 3-1 on most junglers, I feel like I have a chance to carry. With Fiddle, I still have to hope the enemy team is bad and takes some dumb path into a Fiddle ult.

62 Comments

TotalJerk17 votes

Fiddle honestly needs a rework, IMHO. He's nothing without his ult.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

He might not need a full VGU, but he could use an update. Having to stay stationary for w just does not jive with the game anymore, nor does it synergize with his kit at all. If his Q was a charm, maybe... but that's thematically inappropriate.

3TWarrior1 votes

lol, maybe if the fear worked in reverse and scared them away from something towards him instead? though that'd be a problem as so many melee love to get in his face

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, it's a weird dynamic altogether. Melee want to get on him, but he can't really fight at range, again because of drain. He's a weird champ.

Wimbledofy4 votes

his fear used to fear them in a random direction but they changed it a long time ago :/

hallfro1 votes

What if his fear was like an annie ult that feared from the center out? So you could fear them towards you or away from you depending on where you placed it. Though an AoE fear would be broken, so i dunno.

3TWarrior1 votes

there actually is an AoE fear. Fiddlesticks' W boxes have around a 150 radius or 300 diameter fear effect or something like that

hallfro2 votes

You mean Shaco's? And I meant an AoE fear in Fiddle's kit would be OP unless it was delayed or very conditional. I think it fits Shaco's kit fine in its context though.

Meep Man10 votes

Middlesticks is really good if you know how to play it. Q+E+W makes it to where your E always bounces to your W target every other bounce for some insane burst (possibly highest amount of burst at Level 3). He stinks against Assassins with interrupts though.

astralwit4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chicken Dynasty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZRXiAOo1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-13T21:34:39.552+0000)

Middlesticks is really good if you know how to play it. Q+E+W makes it to where your E always bounces to your W target every other bounce for some insane burst (possibly highest amount of burst at Level 3). He stinks against Assassins with interrupts though.

He's SITUATIONALLY decent but hardly "good" and again it's mostly dedicated Fiddle players. He is REALLY bad vs strong ganking junglers and stealth is a big issue for him. I was vs an Ekko Mid as Fiddle and Twitch JG just kept coming and I can only place one pink after all. I was forced to farm under turret instead of keeping the lane in the middle with E spam. When Fiddle is pushed in, he will miss a TON of CS under turret. You can probably get 70% but not more so it's a pretty bad situation compared to many other mids. For example, if I'm Kassadin (great vs Fiddlesticks btw) under turret, I can get 100% of CS if I'm not zoned by abilities. It's really easy. This makes pushing champions like Aurelion Sol quite hard to deal with because they'll clear the wave instantly and just use their massive map pressure to influence the map. If you do the same, you'll have half their CS.

Basically, I think Middlesticks is better than JG Fiddle IF the matchup is decent but it's still not a good pick. It's way more viable than Fiddlesticks into WW or Udyr (yeah even Udyr shits on him... it's sad) though.

Meep Man2 votes

Udyr has a fairly constant single target stun though, so it makes sense he counters him. It would be SOMETHING if Fiddlesticks performed poorly against someone like Evelynn

DarkRitual10 votes

He's been played in the EU LCS as a support.

Support, where mages who can't play anywhere else go to die.

Veltox9 votes

Fiddle support was a thing before being thrash though.

Thrëat7 votes

Fiddles isn't a farming jungler, of course his clears are shit. He shines in team fights because he can do a massive amount of damage if you ult correctly. You can be 2-3 levels behind the enemy jungler and still carry a fight with his broken ult.

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

Probably about every change in the last two years have seemed to be expressly designed to fuck Fiddle over

Danjeng2 votes

How? I thought he got some QoL changes along with multiple straight up buffs, and a small compensation nerf to his bounce-count (which was because one of the buffs was too much).

Fiddlesticks is an old champion with an unique play-style, like Singed. And like Singed, has a dedicated playerbase and sure as hell isn't weak when used in the right hands.

THE RlVER KlNG5 votes

Zhonya's repeatedly nerfed, jungle changes make his low tier clear even worse, meta junglers are mobile ads that crush him in the jungle and puts cake him, his itemization is shit, half his kit requires him to stand still when the meta is FAST FAST GO GO GO, the other half requires him to be in the middle of a team as a squishy mage

DarkRitual3 votes

The jungle changes DESTROYED him, year after year.

Fiddle was one of the few junglers in S5 that didn't need smite. They just went into jg item. Then the jungle items were locked to smite. Then this year, the changes to camps destroyed what little viability was left.

Riot tried to throw his kit a bone. But it wasn't nearly enough to make him viable in jungle without being oppressive elsewhere.

Fiddle's kit was never the problem. His viability was gutted out from under him with jungle changes.

Danjeng1 votes

So pretty much Fiddlesticks is fine, but everybody else is just messed up. I think that he should get a Warwick-level update to modernize. Because, even though his kit has some of the strongest individual abilities in the game, they are very clunky. Keep the core parts of Fiddlesticks intact, while allowing him to keep up with newer designs.

Junglesticks isn't that good, because he can hardly keep up with the annual changes there. Middlesticks is actually a viable pick if you know what you're doing. Great counterpick against assassins, because of his reliable CC, and assassins don't have CC to interupt his channels.

One of the worst things about playing Fiddlesticks is his farming. It's very hard! I think he would be a contested pick if he had wave clear. His team fight and skirmishes are both good, but getting that CS, not so much.

DarkRitual1 votes

Agreed, he needs a full rework. The only thing I'd like to see maintained is a fear of some sort (SCAREcrow). His ult is likely fine, but still feels a little old without some other functional changes.

Bârd4 votes

It doesn't help that his kit plays against itself.

His R and W require enemies to be close, but your Q makes them run away and your W forces you to stand still.

Arduno1 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't help that his kit plays against itself.

His R and W require enemies to be close, but your Q makes them run away and your W forces you to stand still.

I hated it when they changed his Q that way In the beginning his Q made enemies walk randomly now its worse in my eyes..

Envoy of Melody4 votes

Fiddlesticks feels awful because he's one of the only characters in the game who REALLY needs to disable enemy sight. Fiddlesticks is an insanely useful pick against enemy teams that lack sight or generally he's a useful pick with an allied team that dedicates their time to removing wards from the map. Fiddle is a high threat glass cannon that needs to take the enemy by surprise, and that's why it's really hard to balance him since Sight can be so easily obtained ever since they thought it's a good idea to sell Control Wards for 75 gold.

I don't get the people that call his jungling shit, his crow stacks damage on camps with multiple targets and his W heals him back up to 100% in the blink of an eye.

You shouldn't pick Fiddlesticks hoping you get a super nice Jungler, he's anything but that, but he sure as heck isn't a terrible Jungler. He just isn't your conventional go-to Jungler like Lee Sin who is allowed to be good at everything. He uses his jungle to refill his health and get back to ganking, it's not his job to hang around at camps for cash.

item 1410 should be your first item, you want to fix Fiddles bad jungle clear by rushing Echoes and Tracker's Knife is especially important because your success depends on sight. Fiddlesticks needs sight more than anyone else in the game. Get item 3157 as your next high cost item to survive a counterattacking during your ultimate, then get item 3116 to oppress the enemy team more with your tools.

People that imply Fiddlesticks is a terrible jungler simply haven't seen a good Fiddle on their elo. The character has more potential than a lot of other meta picks, you just need to understand that map awareness and sight is the most important thing about this character.

Chroud1 votes

I disagree with the first item rush... First item rush should be item 3020 > item 3711 >>item 3157 >>item 3116

last item depends on other team.. Nothings more important on fid then penetration.

Scary Door3 votes

Agree with the OP mostly. I wouldn't say "Awful", I would say 'mediocre' and outperformed by many junglers.

His teamfights are still pretty awesome though.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Yeah but it still. Today alone i had three fiddle in my team, all three games lost by those fiddles alone. All of them had 300-900 games on fiddle only barely managing a 50% winrate. Fiddle can just straight up be considered a trollpick. Especially higher up when people don't cuddle all the time and know how to position away from each other so his ult becomes useless and that's basically all he has going for him. That one 5 man ult shredding the team apart but he won't come to that mostly since any lee, kha, elise will either just invade him 24/7 or straight up snowball every single lane.

Slimegoon3 votes

He needs a full rework bad. His Q is from another time period and needs to be redone completely. It's impossible to balance a champion with a 2+ second point and click disable.

nice table3 votes

It's because the people who play him are very dedicated and have an insane number of average games (more than any other champ).

uhuh

go play him 20+ games in Plat+ and report back to me if you disagree

so you are silver and have never played him in ranked

He's straight garbage though and it's pretty frustrating

that's a interesting viewpoint to say the least

now then lets look at some statistics shall we? http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fiddlesticks 55% win ratio at 10+ games played, mains of the champion claim to high ranks with good win ratios, 50% win ratio on average at gold+. but you were talking about plat+ right so that doesn't matter right? well the higher elo you check the higher fiddlesticks win ratio is.

ofart2 votes

[{quoted}](name=nice table,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZRXiAOo1,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-04-14T02:16:57.615+0000)

uhuh

so you are silver and have never played him in ranked

that's a interesting viewpoint to say the least

now then lets look at some statistics shall we? http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/fiddlesticks 55% win ratio at 10+ games played, mains of the champion claim to high ranks with good win ratios, 50% win ratio on average at gold+. but you were talking about plat+ right so that doesn't matter right? well the higher elo you check the higher fiddlesticks win ratio is.

Have you ever heard of this thing called sample size or pick-rate? Fiddle isn't a generalist pick and nor is he popular.

nice table3 votes

how exactly is that an argument against anything?

yoshi27903 votes

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=astralwit

You ask for people to play in Platinum +

But you're unranked -,-

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=astralwit

Tyberius112 votes

Ok this is hilarious and needs more upvotes. But I still think Fiddlesticks needs that rework in gameplay and model.

LaughingStapler2 votes

{quoted}

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=astralwit

You ask for people to play in Platinum +

But you're unranked -,-

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=astralwit

Have you ever heard of smurfing? Some people have half a dozen accounts and your comment has literally no bearing on anything of substance regarding Fiddlesticks.

Dream High2 votes

I just dodge if someone on my team picks him. I try and work with whatever in solo q but somethings are just garbage and that includes Fiddlesticks, especially when the other team picks something like Graves, Elise, Lee.

Sire Hippington2 votes

In Jungle? Yes, he's still not great. But as midlaner and SUpport he's damn strong right now, since all his buffs aimed at the jungle have improved his laneing aswell, and his lane wasn't guttexd by junglechanges.

THough overall jungle is a messed up position at high elos since forever, the top tier junglers are just so far above the rest that champs that simnply do well in the jungle are not viable at all.

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

I hate how his E interacts with Krugs. I wish it would continue to bounce and damage them as they are falling.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Fiddlesticks counters Ivern pretty well, he seems to be popular in Korea for that reason.

astralwit1 votes

{quoted}

Fiddlesticks counters Ivern pretty well, he seems to be popular in Korea for that reason.

Since when does a 1.5% pick-rate in KR (lolalytics - the only good stat site) count as popular? I grant that he's decent into Ivern but it's barely a counter at all. I'd say chances are basically even and in DIamond+, Fiddle's still only winning 46% vs Ivern. Considering Ivern averages a disgusting 58% winrate, that's not so bad.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I've never heard of lolalytics before now. Sorry but that doesn't jive.

To be fair I'm just quoting phylol, but still they do their research. You can't expect me to trust what you say when you reference a site I've never heard of as your evidence. Statistics are too easy to cherry pick.

Want to challenge my suggestion that Fiddlesticks works against Ivern? Discuss their abilities and how they would interact. Quoting statistics is a cop-out.

LawUrDepravdHart1 votes

{quoted}

I've never heard of lolalytics before now. Sorry but that doesn't jive.

To be fair I'm just quoting phylol, but still they do their research. You can't expect me to trust what you say when you reference a site I've never heard of as your evidence. Statistics are too easy to cherry pick.

Want to challenge my suggestion that Fiddlesticks works against Ivern? Discuss their abilities and how they would interact. Quoting statistics is a cop-out.

I guess he didn't want to defend his position. lol

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Nope, just wanted to downvote me and forget about it.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

astralwit1 votes

{quoted}

I've never heard of lolalytics before now. Sorry but that doesn't jive.

To be fair I'm just quoting phylol, but still they do their research. You can't expect me to trust what you say when you reference a site I've never heard of as your evidence. Statistics are too easy to cherry pick.

Want to challenge my suggestion that Fiddlesticks works against Ivern? Discuss their abilities and how they would interact. Quoting statistics is a cop-out.

Phylol just needs to make random videos about new OPs etc. for his income. He makes videos daily. Half of what he claims is BS just because he needs to generate views and produce content. Even his so-called "up and coming Korean picks" are frequently complete nonsense with barely any uptick in play or winrate. You know what Fiddle's KR pick-rate is? A whopping 1.50% this patch and a 49.09% winrate (Middlesticks is at 48.05% winrate in KR with a .31% playrate). Oh yeah, definitely a new KR OP pick. Phylol has some good content too but he also has a ton of pointless and inaccurate filler videos.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ok I see your point, but you're still quoting statistics. I would think that Fiddlesticks' abilities work well against Ivern. The silence can bounce between Ivern and Daisy, the fear can peel Daisy off of allies... that kind of stuff.

macromite1 votes

fiddles is what we call a fair champion

In modern league there is no room for those. because riot only makes unfair champion.

Chroud1 votes

460,000 Points on Fid.

I would say his jungle is not that bad. I got over 200 games on him this season wih a 55% win rate most being jungle....

But i said this a while ago hes more of a mid laner / support this season and as long as hes good some were I am happy being a fiddle main. :)

Yes his jungle does need more buffing though it depends to much on his ganks rather then his farm to succeed.

Avios11 votes

I like playing him top.

Or, if they have a Fizz, I just kick my midlaner out and screw his troll pole over.

Glory ln Death1 votes

I wasn't expecting to be assigned 10+ hours of homework when I opened Boards today...

Tyberius111 votes

RIOT WE NEED HIS REWORK ASAP.

Mastery 5 almost 6 Fiddle myself so I completely agree with you all. His jg build is trash...runic echoes does nothing good for him...though he is ok in mid and supp I suppose.

ForgiveColour1 votes

Play him support and hes cancer

Unload On Me1 votes

Top lane cc/sustain fiddle

summoner 4 summoner 12

item 3047 or item 3111 item 3065 item 3742 item 3001 item 3157 item 3027

with 0/12/18 CoC

(just made that up)

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