i dont understand why you're doubling down on keystones

Very Hard Engage·May 31, 2017·6 votes·508 views

people have done nothing but complain about them and beg for them to be removed.

people want more emphasis on a champions natural ability and what it can do.

runes and masteries should not be revolved around or central to the game.

nothing you do is going to enable unfavorable matchups to be workable 50-50's, its only going to further enhance what champions already do and make something like zed vs veigar even more toxic.

better yet, heres a challenge for riot, make a new keystone or w/e combination that lets a squishy mage survive against an all in assassin. make that happen then well talk. show me some STALL or HALTING / CC keystones. even if its totally niche high skill cap.

27 Comments

YokoNomiMay 31, 20173 votes

The power being given to the keystones is admittedly throwing me for a loop. But despite the issues the game is having, I haven't completely lost the "If I try for what this champion's worth, I'll see results" feeling when I'm in a game. I'd rather not wait until that feeling is completely gone to complain, but I'd rather see what happens, since we were only given a sample of the expected results.

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

you're asking me to give them a chance when i've literally predicted the BS from a mile away with assassin update being a failure, galio losing flexibility, graves, rammus gutting, veigar gutting, morde dragon destroying his mid lane potential, maokai ult, zed AD steal ult, kog rework no more ap kiting, all being terrible.

nothing riot says anymore is to be trusted, theres always hidden meaning and reasons behind what they do and it always results in a slap to the face to some pretty unpopular champs not named lee sin and graves.

its not for your benefit or the players, but rather their desired hidden goal.

YokoNomiMay 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

you're asking me to give them a chance when i've literally predicted the BS from a mile away with assassin update being a failure, galio losing flexibility, graves, rammus gutting, veigar gutting, morde dragon destroying his mid lane potential, maokai ult, zed AD steal ult, kog rework no more ap kiting, all being terrible.

nothing riot says anymore is to be trusted, theres always hidden meaning and reasons behind what they do and it always results in a slap to the face to some pretty unpopular champs not named lee sin and graves.

its not for your benefit or the players, but rather their desired hidden goal.

I didn't ask a thing from you. I was speaking on behalf of my own train of thought on the subject matter. Though admittedly, it's a little refreshing to read a post with the mood of "Conspiracy Theory!" written all over it.

You're more than welcome to think what you will, but to each their own.

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

let me make this clear for you, its never a theory, its been a connect the dots based on whats already been shown.

and an educated prediction based on data available.

something boards completely overlooks because of promises to their favorite champ.

you're blinded by them becoming free and ignoring that they'll become half a champions power.

"give them a chance" no, i've given them plenty, they need to learn to start taking orders.

YokoNomiMay 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

let me make this clear for you, its never a theory, its been a connect the dots on whats already been shown.

and an educated prediction based on data available.

something boards completely overlooks because of promises to their favorite champ.

you're blinded by them becoming free and ignoring that they'll become half a champions power.

"give them a chance" no, i've given them plenty, they need to learn to start taking orders.

Did you make the thread to be an arse, or do you just dislike anyone that isn't in immediate favor of your train of thought? I'm beginning to think bothering to make a post here is a complete waste of my time.

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

this is me, giving you yet another warning, that runes/masteries WILL be a failure and at best a change for the sake of change.

do what you will with that information.

my track record is i predicted all of the aforementioned items and then some i cant think of, feel free to scroll through my history.

YokoNomiMay 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

this is me, giving you yet another warning, that runes/masteries WILL be a failure and at best a change for the sake of change.

do what you will with that information.

my track record is i predicted all of the aforementioned items and then some i cant think of, feel free to scroll through my history.

They've rejected bad ideas in the past, and I don't see why it wouldn't be the case if it went south. Also, why would I? lol

Silly NeekoMay 31, 20172 votes

So..... Have you heard of when someone worries so much about something happening, and they eventually take as much precaution as they can, but end up causing their worries to come true?

This works in conjunction of if you are always, and constantly worrying about something that you think will be bad, and so you only see the downsides and negatives of whatever it is.

This is starting to sound like you are a pessimist at heart and so you rather enjoy seeing only the bad things.

Honestly the whole "ive predicted everything and have been correct all along!" sounds like you are trying to self validate yourself.

I would like facts that are not 100% based on opinion to back up your claims please.

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

if i am its only what riot made me, i had nothing but high hopes since veigar DFG compensation. you can see what they turned my favorite champ into.... a 37% dumpster fire.

Silly NeekoMay 31, 20172 votes

Ever heard of a "self fulfilling prophecy"? Might research that.

Veigar has not changed at all. The DFG is not what made him good. He has always had a fairly lower winrate due to his lack of mobility except when he could literally just ulti and kill anyone.

I feel your worries are mostly in your head rather than in League.

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

i was fine with volatile you kill me i kill you situation with veigar, better player wins.

im not ok with, i literally cant defend myself anymore better stay 2000 units away until i walk up to use some max range abilities.

i didnt even care about 80% enemy ap bonus. or his HAM AF ~600 range on a hyper squishy carry.

RalanrMay 31, 20171 votes

I wouldn't call runes/masteries change for the sake of change. Rather change for an easier window of what to hit when balancing people.

RalanrMay 31, 20171 votes

Then apply for a position in Riot to give orders.

Darkdemon653May 31, 20172 votes

Because it's a good way for people to customize and tailor their champions with and against different teams

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

except its not

people always pick what enhances/optimizes their core function, no amount of runes will make a melee vs range matchup viable or fun for anyone involved.

Darkdemon653May 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

except its not

people always pick what enhances/optimizes their core function, no amount of runes will make a melee vs range matchup viable or fun for anyone involved.

So if Riot made a rune or mastery that reduced damage taken by ranged attacks (extra for melee champions who use that rune/mastery), that wouldn't do anything for a ranged vs. melee matchup? It would not be something that would be used or not used based on certain factors?

HalcyonDwellerMay 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

people have done nothing but complain about them and beg for them to be removed.

people want more emphasis on a champions natural ability and what it can do.

You do not know what everybody else thinks. You do not speak for everybody. Don't act like you do.

FrightningMay 31, 20171 votes

I haven't seen much complaining about keystones themselves, sure, there have been balance complaints because some of them were much better than others for a time, but I didn't see people expressing any sort of general dislike for keystones.

Regarding Zed v Veigar, a smart Veigar wins that matchup handedly (surprised? here's a hint: your E will land 100% of the time if he ult's you, just place it and move so that he reappears right in the stun inducing part of it for an automatic, instant stun...then proceed to drop all your burst on him and laugh maniacally).

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

shame he doesnt do that at all, instead he just pokes you for 1/3rd your health every 24seconds, its his skill shot to miss, not yours to dodge. you will be shoved under tower and without huge early game AP you will miss tons of farm or take more guaranteed poke. you can not go into the wave to auto without forcing a fight.

you need jungler assistance to shut down the over aggressive zed.

FrightningMay 31, 20171 votes

Not actually that hard to dodge unless his shadow is all but right next to you. So you just have to respect the threat range and move unpredictably. I've played the Veigar v Zed matchup and won it pretty decisively, once you get some levels into Q and enough AP, you can actually harass Zed pretty effectively with your Q, just play around his shadow CD since when he doesn't have it, the only shuriken is coming from him, and as long as you keep him at a distance, it's pretty dodgeable (note: NEVER use your E to trade with him post 6, or expect to get all-in'd for not having stun threat; you can however use it pre-6 for trades, just be wary when he's 5 of how close to getting 6 he is).

Very Hard EngageMay 31, 20171 votes

as ive stated, that means you can not auto attack to last hit, you revolve around your max range abilities just by """""respecting""""" his w range

forcing you to last hit under turret which is abysmal as veigar.

so you either take his questionable skill poke or you farm under tower safely. but assuming zed plays correctly you just get destroyed.

what should happen tho is a cc jungler comes up punishes zed for playing over aggressive and veigar adds on his stun for an easy easy kill at all stages of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltnoT-32Zt8

best example you're ever going to get of the lane matchup. searched for something more recent, but it literally doesn't exist because no challenger player wants to play veigar vs assassin matchup.

FrightningMay 31, 20171 votes

Alex Ich even said in the first few minutes of the lane that the Veigar should be harassing him more and wasn't playing (the matchup) all that well. I could've played that matchup better myself as the Veigar, and I'm not even that good at this game.

Very Hard EngageJun 1, 20171 votes

so is he farming or harassing which is it? because veigar cant do both.

and when he does land abilities with 70 AP he deals 130 damage compared to zeds 220 damage. making trading outright wrong until later. making the correct play to avoid zed and focus on wave management.

(zeds health and MR is absurd)

so unless ofc you want to land 2x skill shots over him.

FrightningJun 1, 20171 votes

He can do both, been there done that myself, you just have to pace yourself so you don't go insta-oom. Also, itemizing for mana regen early game is a good idea, especially against a resourceless lane opponent (ex: item 1056 start into + item 1001 + item 3802 ). It's especially easy after you get a 2nd ring since your farming helps replace the mana you expended on CSing. Also, when his W is down (because he's used it), you can totally harass him with basic attacks, he's melee and your ranged.

Very Hard EngageJun 1, 20171 votes

except now you're taking a third of your health from W + E + Q if not more from double Q's and dealing 1/9th with your Q to him.

you do not win, not unless you heavily heavily outskill him.

its a straight numbers game, and veigar loses every single time. you're creating favorable situations in your head.

but im telling you in an even matchup its zeds game to take for himself, its not up to the veigar, it demands you play perfectly just to not die.

let me put this into perspective for you, zed can cast his Q about 90 times before 10minutes. veigar can cast his close to ~14 times before ooming (factoring mana regen) or realistically close to 40 times over the full laning phase.

which you have to decide between throwing it at minions or zed, not both, because he stands behind 2+ minions making you auto to deal any damage at all too him.

congrats, you've lost on the spot, you've been forced into farm only mode, he gets free harass on you.

id be happy to 1v1 you as either champion and show you just how terrible the lane can be.

FrightningJun 1, 20171 votes

You seem to not actually be reading what I posted, or if you did, you didn't understand it. He can't land E on you when his W is down unless you literally let him walk up to you. When it's up, you should respect the threat range his has. I doubt you accounted for Doran's Ring mana restore, let alone Veigar's passive. I know you can get far more than 14 Q's in the first 10 minutes of lane.

Add me on League and we can put the theory crafting into practice.

Very Hard EngageJun 1, 20171 votes

its an either or situation, zed isnt going to allow you to free farm, hes going to be in melee range and you have to stand an additional 900 units away to avoid his base Q, or 1500 for his W + Q.

please raise your elo, then come back and tell me what happens in veigar vs zed matchup.

you keep pretending all zed players are bad and passive and sit back and farm it up with Q.

as veigar, you have 2 options, you can farm, or you can TRADE and be on the losing end every time due to base stat damage, mana vs energy, and innate champion bulk.

you will NEVER "outplay" zed on veigar by getting free harass with Q. all he has to do is stand behind melee minions and you lose, you deal zero damage to him, he gets all the poke he wants against you.

please, 1v1 me.

#just an fyi, if you're in range for a max range Q against zed. hes also in range to W -> E -> double Q you.

not that you would know that.