Kayle's rework is the worst one of 2018 - 2019

chipndip1··1 votes·1,076 views

Say what you want about "problematic VGUs", at least Riot put in the effort to fix a problem when it came to Aatrox, Urgot, Akali, Irelia, Nunu, Mordekaiser, Galio...pretty much most of the VGUs, if not all of them, leading up to Kayle. Kayle, on the other hand, feels like whoever was designing her game play didn't realize where he was starting from to judge where he'd need to end up.

Like, really list them off and think on them for a bit:

Mordekaiser: Super stat-checky game play with no way to enable himself. Granted play making tools that can be avoided.

Irelia: Kit that punishes the enemy for beating her that falls off to irrelevancy in a game where (at the time) all divers would fall off to split pushing. Given better scaling, more involved game play mechanics, and removed the "I stun you the second you have more hp than me" gimmick.

Aatrox: Unsatisfying, stat-checky game play that people would NOT stop calling for more changes to no matter how much Riot would change the character. Given potentially powerful abilities with sweet/sour spot mechanics to play around for the opponent, which in turn removes his dependence on stacking steroids to check people with AA spam.

You can do this going down the list of characters I previously mentioned. Again, whether these things landed well or became problematic for one elo of play or another is not what I'm critiquing here. What I'm critiquing are the goals of the rework and the method used to satisfy them. Now, looking at Kayle.

Kayle: Before her rework, she was a late game ap hyper carry that felt really bad to play in the early game because of how defenseless she was and way too unstoppable in the late game because of how much she shred people, with no real purpose in organized games because hyper carries normally go bot lane and she's a melee champion in the early game. Riot reworked Kayle to be even stronger later with aoe true damage, even weaker earlier with no means of activating ranged laning patterns of her own accord, and no changes to her ability to contribute to the team via cc or other utilities, which means she's still copious when you factor in bot lane carries.

In short, Kayle got a WHOLE VGU to be turned into an even more feast/famine version of what she was initially. Phreak made a whole video back in mid season 2018 about how unsatisfying being a high power champion with low agency can be, and the person in charge of this VGU decided to do the exact OPPOSITE of that and remove even more agency from the original design of Kayle, whereas most VGUs and new champions have been giving players more agency in contrast. In my mind, regardless of differences I may have with the community on some reworks/new kits, given outcry about Kayle, I think many of us would agree that, objectively, Kayle is the worst VGU project Riot's done in at least the last 2 years. She's accomplished NOTHING. Solo queue players still think she's unsatisfying. Tourney level players aren't using a champion that starts a job that Kai'Sa can do at level 10 or 11 at level 15. All Riot did was make her look different...and honestly this jump suit is worse than the gold armor. Her base skin is awful.

10 Comments

Dynikus6 votes

Kayle has a mini rework on the pbe currently to make her early game better and her late game less broken, and she's had multiple balance changes since her release. I have no idea what you mean by them putting in no effort to fix problems with her when they come up.

Moody P1 votes

neat, now Kayle can jump to square 1 as a terrible design instead of her VGU being 2 steps back

what now?

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Kayle has a mini rework on the pbe currently to make her early game better and her late game less broken, and she's had multiple balance changes since her release. I have no idea what you mean by them putting in no effort to fix problems with her when they come up.

Just because you make a numbers change doesn't mean you fix the core game play issues that required them to make the VGU to begin with. She's so close to where she started that they're not going to improve Kayle unless they did another outright game play update since this one did so little.

preternatural2 votes

i like the current kayle i just don't play ranged champs.

Abibyama II1 votes

Question: Do you feel that she needed an Aatrox/Galio tier, aka changing her entire playstyle theme and pissing off her mains?

If her kit changes that are on PBE now right was on her release kit would that still change anything?

Moody P1 votes

Kayle mains would deserve it more than either of those communities

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEgcd6ij,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-02T19:42:00.426+0000)

Question: Do you feel that she needed an Aatrox/Galio tier, aka changing her entire playstyle theme and pissing off her mains?

She hardly had mains before the rework for this appeal to emotion to mean anything. Same for Galio and the same for Aatrox until RIGHT before the update shipped.

If her kit changes that are on PBE now right was on her release kit would that still change anything?

No.

Abibyama II1 votes

Yeah that was not a good question based on my perception. Whenever a champion gets regardless of popularity, everyone is a main of said champion. Same thing with Twisted Treeline and how everyone on the planet loved that gamemode

It seems that Riot has that "new kits has to have the old kit's spirit and identity in order not to frustrate the players" which may be a good or a bad thing depending on how good the old kit was.

chipndip11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abibyama II,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oEgcd6ij,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-08-02T21:10:48.465+0000)

It seems that Riot has that "new kits has to have the old kit's spirit and identity in order not to frustrate the players" which may be a good or a bad thing depending on how good the old kit was.

Therein lies the problem. Whenever a kit doesn't need major changes, and Riot goes the "slight update" approach, it's fine (Xin Zhao and Ezreal), but when they DO need major changes and they use their "VGU card" without making enough of them, we now have a champion that can't be updated again for years, but their kit hasn't done enough to make the champ feel any good to play (Kayle, Sona, Karma, etc.).

preternatural1 votes

just let kayle be the ultra-scaling carry, it fits so well thematically that it's actually a joke people can be upset bout it. tweak some numbers at her base form, maybe second form, the rest are honestly working as intended it's just getting to them that's the issue. but eh whatever, i just like that my transcended kayle skin is now CASH MONEY.

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