Why does Zhonya on PBE have less AP than it's components?

Duke Anax·Oct 31, 2015·127 votes·5,177 views

unfinished changes in the build path, or oversight?

78 Comments

YumaS2AstralOct 31, 201516 votes

They've already said this is unintended and they will change that.

Duke AnaxOct 31, 20152 votes

Thanks, i haven't seen such a comment yet, that's why I made the thread, in hope of gettign a Riot response. Got a Link?

AbyssphereOct 31, 20153 votes

{quoted}

They've already said this is unintended and they will change that.

Where?

YumaS2AstralNov 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Where?

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/3qv7hy/buying_the_new_zhonyas_with_a_seekers_stacked/

Heckin SupportNov 1, 201543 votes

It's nice how this was posted on Reddit and not their own forums when this has been a very talked about issue.

Handin Out NapsNov 1, 201511 votes

Forums? You mean the anti CertainlyT / Low elo qq?

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Nov 1, 201520 votes

{quoted}

Forums? You mean the anti CertainlyT / Low elo qq?

To be fair the Cait and Graves reworks are earning CertainlyT some respect back to Board. I guess you don't want to count that in since it's more fun to make Board people look irrational.

CasterGilgameshNov 1, 20153 votes

They are though lolz they bitch but don't give solutions and down vote anything for no reason.this is why we can't have nice things...

MarhsallLee67Nov 1, 20159 votes

Implying that r/lol is any less cancerous.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Nov 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Implying that r/lol is any less cancerous.

What's r/lol? Just curious.

JariNov 1, 20155 votes

... If you looked up a bit, it's short for Reddit League of Legends. You know, the place that Riot actually goes to more than their own boards to talk about things.

CanidaeNov 1, 20151 votes

I don't blame them. It has access to a broader community and is a boards designed for this type of discussion, despite RIOT having their own forum page.

EDIT: and yes r/lol is less "cancerous". At least the top threads there aren't some QQ fest about the Harrowing...

PryotraNov 1, 20153 votes

They changed over to the boards so that their own forum page would be designed for the discussion at the behest of literally all the users who like vbulletin.

Then they host discussions off the boards and don't cross link. When the boards have the capability. It's pretty shitty PR, tbh.

JariNov 1, 20157 votes

They remade the Forums into these Boards in the intent of making it easier for them to speak with us. Then they just flock over to Reddit. Sure, sometimes they speak over here, but it seems to be a lot less often than Reddit. It's actually sad when a company would rather use a (technically) third party site instead of their own site here. Specially since if you check the community page, I do not see Reddit posted.

I even in a ticket had a talk about a sale problem going on. Me purchasing a name change, then they announce a sale happening very shortly after. I opened a ticket because that's a little too soon for me to just get shut down.

"We announced it on Reddit 6 months prior, so you cannot receive a refund due to being warned ahead of time. Sorry." That was basically the response. I'd get it if they announced it on their front page, or on these boards, but if they're going to count Reddit for this then they might want to show people we have a Reddit. I didn't even KNOW we had a Reddit page for League until after that.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Nov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They remade the Forums into these Boards in the intent of making it easier for them to speak with us. Then they just flock over to Reddit. Sure, sometimes they speak over here, but it seems to be a lot less often than Reddit. It's actually sad when a company would rather use a (technically) third party site instead of their own site here. Specially since if you check the community page, I do not see Reddit posted.

I even in a ticket had a talk about a sale problem going on. Me purchasing a name change, then they announce a sale happening very shortly after. I opened a ticket because that's a little too soon for me to just get shut down.

"We announced it on Reddit 6 months prior, so you cannot receive a refund due to being warned ahead of time. Sorry." That was basically the response. I'd get it if they announced it on their front page, or on these boards, but if they're going to count Reddit for this then they might want to show people we have a Reddit. I didn't even KNOW we had a Reddit page for League until after that.

I didn't know it existed before I got downvoted for asking what r/lol was above.

JariNov 3, 20151 votes

Well in your case it's because it was being talked about directly above it.

Handin Out NapsNov 1, 20152 votes

You want me to count the people on the boars just recently saying "oh wow gj CertainlyT ", when I've been hearing the same fire this guy, only makes cancer champs, doesn't deserve his job shit? Please after reading nothing but an endless stream of blind rage from the boards I could easily understand why Riot would prefer reddit.

JariNov 1, 20153 votes

Only Reddit isn't much better. God forbid you do one tiny thing wrong.

Handin Out NapsNov 1, 20151 votes

Everytime i go on reddit I don't see anything like the boards. This place is just a huge fuck fest. I go on reddit's league front page and enjoy a couple things, read funny comments and call it a day. Here its just wah op, wah fire certainlyT, wah fuck riot. Honestly this shit just gets tiring.

JariNov 1, 20153 votes

I haven't heard a CentainlyT cry in a while minus Morde's rework (Which honestly even his kit wasn't feeling Morde anymore since no more metal.) People are alright with what he did with the ADC's he has because he's making them feel better. Grave's shotgun will actually FEEL like a shotgun.

And I recall posts on Reddit that had any beef with riot deleted by mods because you can't criticize anymore.

MyrddinNov 1, 20151 votes

just wait until people actually play cait and see that her passive doesnt work 50% of the time and graves is so insanely broken right now that he's bursting anything in the game.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a39Nov 3, 20151 votes

{quoted}

just wait until people actually play cait and see that her passive doesnt work 50% of the time and graves is so insanely broken right now that he's bursting anything in the game.

It's not even released. By the way, he only designs a champion. Balancing and bugs are not his things.

MyrddinNov 3, 20151 votes

i'm well aware that it's the balance teams job to get the numbers right, but that's the case for all of his champions and people still bitch and moan that he's terrible.

The balance team does a god awful job and the designer get's blamed, it's not really fair.

Biff ManlyNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It's nice how this was posted on Reddit and not their own forums when this has been a very talked about issue.

Why ever would Riot employees want to avoid discussing changes on the boards? We're aways so reasonable and not totally anal about every little change.

~~It's a mystery~~

RocketRelmOct 31, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They've already said this is unintended and they will change that.

What is unintended? There's a lot of things that 'could' be intended instead.

BiBoX2Nov 1, 20151 votes

DOn't expect Zhonya buff. Rather, it will be a nerf to Seeker (well, I know the way of "Riot balance" ;-) , and that's also the reason many players did NOT ask about this Zhonya nerf! )

RocketRelmNov 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

DOn't expect Zhonya buff. Rather, it will be a nerf to Seeker (well, I know the way of "Riot balance" ;-) , and that's also the reason many players did NOT ask about this Zhonya nerf! )

Seeker was already nerfed in addition to zhoynas. Zhoynas loses power in comparison to its component items even AFTER that. They can't solve this problem by nerfing seekers because then SEEKERS would lose AP compared to the Amp Tome it builds out of. They've already sucked all the power they can out of seekers, essentially. It's not enough.

Yosuke ApperuNov 1, 20151 votes

They could just increase it's stack limit/how fast you can stack it.

RocketRelmNov 1, 20152 votes

Can't do that either. If Seekers in its current state has 1 AP from stacks, you lose AP from combining it into Zhoynas.

AMYS GRAVENov 2, 20151 votes

They would have to lower the stack limit?

RocketRelmNov 2, 20151 votes

Yes. Specifically, reduce the stack limit to 0. Remove stacking from Seekers Armguard wholesale. Make it just an item with 20 AP and 20 Armor. That is the only way these two component items can fit this Zhoyna's Hourglass.

Yosuke ApperuNov 2, 20151 votes

It's just a hard thing to balance, I guess because it provides such incredible utility.

IgsabBTGk0Oct 31, 201515 votes

Riot hates mages. In other news: the pope is catholic.

AnidanNov 1, 201511 votes

At least most of those mages aren't healers. The historical treatment of champions with a heal in this game... shudders

xFrostKnightxNov 1, 201515 votes

Soraka : It's a good thing my heal is still balanced in exchange for 10%hp, no damage in my kit and no hard CC.

Caitlyn : .... Sivir : Do you want me to tell or..? Caitlyn : umm... Soraka... cough Grievous Wounds cough

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

: It's a good thing my heal is still balanced in exchange for 10%hp, no damage in my kit and no hard CC.

: .... : Do you want me to tell or..? : umm... Soraka... cough Grievous Wounds cough

Soraka has the ability to remove Grevious Wounds from her entire team with the press of a button. Yes, if the carry has Executioner's they can instantly reapply it, but they cannot reduce her ultimate's heal with it.

xFrostKnightxNov 1, 201512 votes

I'm talking about her W which drains 10% hp. Unless R is her main source of heal, R isn't doing anything to stop the new ADC items.

R: 350 + 55% ap. The average Ap on a Soraka without sacrificing supporting build is 200-300ap.
460/515 Hp heal that can be used every 1 minute 18 seconds (with 40% cd), I guess this means she dosent need compensation?

Now for W (which even has a hp cost to justify her "Healing focused kit") W: 240 + 60% ap. We'll use the same average Ap for a support Soraka. 240 + 120/180. Which adds up to 360/420 now vs Grievous wounds you get a final total of;

216-252 heal, which costs Soraka 10% of her Hp. With support items, she will have 2250hp (sight stone only). So she's healing 1:1 Which is not worth building the 200-300ap just to end up slightly more Heal than the base heal.

Instead I could play another support with a 1-2 second CC stun and the damage I would have prevented the person from doing would easily excel 252 worth of HP damage. AND it wouldn't cost me 10% of my HP to cast.

There is no reason to play Soraka support anymore when even Taric can Point click and prevent more damage than a Soraka W can heal.

The only way to balance Soraka (Because she's a Healing focused champion) To make W unaffected by Grievous wounds OR remove the 10% HP cost. Just by having that item in the game (It's also a core ADC / Bruser /Assasin item) is a strait up Nerf to Soraka.

RyzeReworkNov 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm talking about her W which drains 10% hp. Unless R is her main source of heal, R isn't doing anything to stop the new ADC items.

R: 350 + 55% ap. The average Ap on a Soraka without sacrificing supporting build is 200-300ap.
460/515 Hp heal that can be used every 1 minute 18 seconds (with 40% cd), I guess this means she dosent need compensation?

Now for W (which even has a hp cost to justify her "Healing focused kit") W: 240 + 60% ap. We'll use the same average Ap for a support Soraka. 240 + 120/180. Which adds up to 360/420 now vs Grievous wounds you get a final total of;

216-252 heal, which costs Soraka 10% of her Hp. With support items, she will have 2250hp (sight stone only). So she's healing 1:1 Which is not worth building the 200-300ap just to end up slightly more Heal than the base heal.

Instead I could play another support with a 1-2 second CC stun and the damage I would have prevented the person from doing would easily excel 252 worth of HP damage. AND it wouldn't cost me 10% of my HP to cast.

There is no reason to play Soraka support anymore when even Taric can Point click and prevent more damage than a Soraka W can heal.

The only way to balance Soraka (Because she's a Healing focused champion) To make W unaffected by Grievous wounds OR remove the 10% HP cost. Just by having that item in the game (It's also a core ADC / Bruser /Assasin item) is a strait up Nerf to Soraka.

It's okay for mages to reduce healing and for ignite but put it on a ad item and everyone losses there fucking minds

xFrostKnightxNov 1, 20159 votes

Ignite is on a long Cd and mages do not make others do reduced healing.

It was fine when it was on it's own separate item, where you were forced to sacrifice an item slot. Now it's on an item every single ADC, Assassin, Bruser will buy to shutdown all the lifesteal going around and who get's indirectly nerfed from this? Not the AD champions. Nope because they have a ton of lifesteal items to use, It's the healers and worse Healers who's whole kit is focued on healing.

I and every support would have been fine with it if it was on a tank item, to justify the logic of bringing back GW. Instead they nerf tanks and give GW to ADC. Where is the logic in that?

Explain how this is fair for, Aatrox Swain Who lose Kit strength in exchange for having self-heals? Swain without his heal blows up (example is no mana swain). Vladimir cannot Lane anymore or use E without damaging himself more than his E returns. Aatrox, all of his kit power is in his W for sustain and GW will make his revive heal less.

Put GW on thorn mail and everyone is happy. Tanks feel useful, Thornmail will actually deal damage and tanks get their compensation for the tank nerf.

Duke AnaxNov 1, 20152 votes

Mages do reduced healing item 3165 and what's more they usually do in in an AoE.

Fashion MageNov 1, 20154 votes

Yeah, but that's only with spells that hit targets below 40%(?) health. The new item applies it for five seconds irrelevant of the target's health every auto-attack.

JariNov 1, 20155 votes

Spells have a cooldown and the target needs to be under 40%. It's meant to make sure you can kill the target after working so hard for it. ADC's will literally have it every attack regardless of the enemies health. So ya. Which do you think is stronger?

SpoofghoulNov 1, 20151 votes

the ad item applies it on every hit it also give much needed arpen.

mage equivalent only applies it when enemy is below 40% hp ... and doesnt give magicpen

RyzeReworkNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the ad item applies it on every hit it also give much needed arpen.

mage equivalent only applies it when enemy is below 40% hp ... and doesnt give magicpen

It also gives cdr mana regeneration and 80 ap for a low price

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Godlike Jungle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBhooeEG,comment-id=000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2015-11-01T09:37:35.816+0000)

It's okay for mages to reduce healing and for ignite but put it on a ad item and everyone losses there fucking minds

The main difference is that mages aren't always going to be mid. You could have a manaless AP like Kat or an assassin like Zed. There will ALWAYS be an ADC on the enemy team.

The Yetii RiderNov 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm talking about her W which drains 10% hp. Unless R is her main source of heal, R isn't doing anything to stop the new ADC items.

R: 350 + 55% ap. The average Ap on a Soraka without sacrificing supporting build is 200-300ap.
460/515 Hp heal that can be used every 1 minute 18 seconds (with 40% cd), I guess this means she dosent need compensation?

Now for W (which even has a hp cost to justify her "Healing focused kit") W: 240 + 60% ap. We'll use the same average Ap for a support Soraka. 240 + 120/180. Which adds up to 360/420 now vs Grievous wounds you get a final total of;

216-252 heal, which costs Soraka 10% of her Hp. With support items, she will have 2250hp (sight stone only). So she's healing 1:1 Which is not worth building the 200-300ap just to end up slightly more Heal than the base heal.

Instead I could play another support with a 1-2 second CC stun and the damage I would have prevented the person from doing would easily excel 252 worth of HP damage. AND it wouldn't cost me 10% of my HP to cast.

There is no reason to play Soraka support anymore when even Taric can Point click and prevent more damage than a Soraka W can heal.

The only way to balance Soraka (Because she's a Healing focused champion) To make W unaffected by Grievous wounds OR remove the 10% HP cost. Just by having that item in the game (It's also a core ADC / Bruser /Assasin item) is a strait up Nerf to Soraka

You do realize that the ADC can only apply Grevious Wounds to one target at a time, right? Soraka can heal other champions besides the one being focused by the carry.

And if both champions have Executioners to diminish their life steal, Soraka's ult and W will still be enough to tip the scales of that fight, especially since it's 200 HP per 2 seconds. Reduced or not 200 HP every 2 seconds is significant.

PartholonianNov 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that the ADC can only apply Grevious Wounds to one target at a time, right?

Unless they have item 3085 , or can attack more often than once every 5 seconds.

The only effect that reduces damage by anywhere near 50% is summoner 3 . Now imagine that you had an item that applied that effect to everyone you hit. Yeah, it's that nuts.

Maybe they're still working on the system to make GW available in a variety of different strengths and this is intended to apply a 20% GW rather than 50%. That might actually be reasonable, if the stat tradeoffs were noticeable.

AMYS GRAVENov 2, 20151 votes

You do realize that the ADC can only apply Grevious Wounds to one target at a time, right? Soraka can heal other champions besides the one being focused by the carry.

If they aren't being focused why prioritize your heal on them?

The Yetii RiderNov 2, 20151 votes