If Randuin's decreases magical "crit" then IE and Runes should increase magical crit

Duke Anax·Sep 7, 2015·136 votes·4,797 views

There are several abbilities that do bonus damage under certain conditions. Apparently Randuins counts those as critical strikes and reduces them.

Meddler confirmed this is intentional. Well it may be debatable but if they decide this is so, then fine, why not.

But then they also have to apply increases to those critical strikes. Notable Infinity Edge and Crit Damage Runes.

IE would be just an odd fringe case, same as Randuins, but the Runes could be interesting

72 Comments

LoLKiruSep 7, 201522 votes

I'm surprised they don't just change Karthus and Anivia (the only two I know of off the top of my head who do this) to not actually crit and just deal bonus damage.

We've seen this is CLEARLY possible with things like Xerath, who deals increased damage if he lands the center of his W on you, and his modified damage certainly isn't a crit.

LaceUp23Sep 8, 20154 votes

Soraka crits

Hotlin3 FlingSep 8, 20153 votes

Not reduced

LaceUp23Sep 8, 20155 votes

That doesn't make sense then lol. It's a crit mechanic.

GigglesOSep 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I'm surprised they don't just change Karthus and Anivia (the only two I know of off the top of my head who do this) to not actually crit and just deal bonus damage.

We've seen this is CLEARLY possible with things like Xerath, who deals increased damage if he lands the center of his W on you, and his modified damage certainly isn't a crit.

Soraka q crits if you land in the center.

Prospector PeteSep 7, 201511 votes

It would kinda be odd though, because champions with "magical crit" wouldn't build IE.

Duke AnaxSep 7, 201533 votes

You normally wouldn't build Randuin's against those either. It's a weird gimmik, but when they decide it's a thing, they need to be consequent.

The Yetii RiderSep 7, 201516 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4BOrLUB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-09-07T22:41:02.151+0000)

You normally wouldn't build Randuin's against those either. It's a weird gimmik, but when they decide it's a thing, they need to be consequent.

Yeah you don't build it specifically to counter those champions, but if you get it to reduce the damage of the ADC on their team, then it has the nice side effect of lol nope.

Silents429Sep 8, 20152 votes

No they don't need to be consequent, it's a nice effect for tanks, but do we really have to tone them down, or add an entirely unused and stupid function to the game just for the sake of consistency?

GorgannanSep 8, 201525 votes

Yes. If it's reduced by crit reducing effects, i t should be increased by crit increasing effects.

DeliothSep 8, 20152 votes

Yes. If Randuin's can reduce Anivia's E by 10%, I want to be able to go full crit damage runes to increase its damage by 47%.

Silents429Sep 8, 20155 votes

I rather they remove the crit reduction from Randiuns.

VerxintSep 9, 20151 votes

I'd rather they not. God forbid you can actually build a combination of items that prevents you from being melted by the ADC.

Silents429Sep 9, 20151 votes

Not the AD crits, I mean the MR crits being reduced by it, I rather that be taken away.

KaisadiIIaSep 8, 20156 votes

But the point with Randuin is that you actually want to build it in most of your games because armor is always valuable. Reducing Anivia's E damage is just a little free advantage, but it's still unfair nonetheless.

LankPantsSep 8, 20156 votes

Nid's cougar Q counts as a crit, this actually scares me a bit.

RetillinSep 8, 20152 votes

Did not know that.

Troll for TrumpSep 9, 20153 votes

nid also scales off Ad decently... oh god.

VisigothSep 8, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Prospector Pete,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4BOrLUB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-07T22:02:21.466+0000)

It would kinda be odd though, because champions with "magical crit" wouldn't build IE.

I could see it do decent on Karthus. That's a lot of increase damage assuming you can consistently hit the isolated Q. Plus you would get some ad, so I guess that's a plus, somehow. Splitpush Karthus op?

DeliothSep 8, 20151 votes

Don't forget that full crit damage runes ends up at around 47% bonus crit damage. Which is a lot.

SaltyKrackaSep 8, 201510 votes

Sure whynot.

I mean, these are idiotic fringe cases that don't actually affect a champion's power, but sure, go ahead and have IE boost Karthus and Anivia crits.

Diananmen SquareSep 8, 20158 votes

Anivia item 3031 approves.

DragonDelgarSep 8, 20155 votes

The underlying problem is that the term "critical strike" isn't well-defined. Randuin's Omen calls more things critical strikes than Infinity Edge does. This is a conceptual issue that should be fixed even if "mages won't build IE."

What this topic suggests is a good solution: call anything that counts as critical damage a critical strike, like Randuin's Omen does. And then make all these crit modifiers apply to them consistently.

The other option is to stop counting these bonus-damage spells as crits so that "critical strike" really does mean what Infinity Edge says it means. This has the advantage of defining crits as... what most people think crits are, which has been pretty well-established. Randuin's Omen is the weird new thing that's making us rethink this stuff, after all.

I'd take either way. I just can't stand the inconsistency.

Duke AnaxSep 8, 20151 votes

well said that's exactly what I meant.

DrNovaSep 7, 20154 votes

Where did Meddler say it was intentional. Link.

Cause just yesterday someone posted that it was affecting aniva and he said it wasn't intentional and he was passing the info to the fixer team

spavinedSep 8, 20159 votes

in the same conversation he confirmed that it was in fact intentional for randuins to reduce all crits

OverpoweredSoapSep 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Where did Meddler say it was intentional. Link.

Cause just yesterday someone posted that it was affecting aniva and he said it wasn't intentional and he was passing the info to the fixer team

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/QesmyUJj-meddler-randuins-omen-reduces-anivias-damage

His second post says it's intentional and his 3rd post is defending it, I believe.

ModIts Yuu and MiSep 8, 20154 votes

http://x4.fjcdn.com/comments/3079120+_3a779b07301eff1bfbeea6af1b5ba417.jpg

Ranger AzerethSep 8, 20153 votes

I'd say it's worth adding in, and it would also give players the option of taking crit runes as well.

GorgannanSep 8, 20153 votes

Crit damage runes Karthus. 1 man Q's would hit like a truck, seeing as they have low scaling but high bases on single target.

The Bearded BardSep 8, 20153 votes

Oooooo sounds like Anivia buffs. I'm in.

DerfelSep 8, 20153 votes

Plz don't indulge Riot and their shit excuse for their shit programming

hgjkdlsaf jeldvbSep 8, 20152 votes

crit rune karthus

Gurei FullbusterSep 9, 20152 votes

AD Poppy would love this change to item 3031 . Sounds like a good idea.

Skia AsteriSep 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gurei Fullbuster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4BOrLUB,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2015-09-09T19:10:50.676+0000)

AD would love this change to . Sounds like a good idea.

Her Q works normally with IE already, it just has a reduced base crit multiplier.

The LovelessSep 8, 20151 votes

We need more magic crits, and I don't mean "giving more damage," I mean just showing when huge spikes of damage occurs - IE when Brand uses other skills and then his W deals increased damage, or when Xerath lands his W smack dab on top of someone.

I like seeing big numbers pop on the screen.

edit: lol I said IE :>

Axis the DragonSep 8, 20152 votes

http://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ln1znuXqth1qjanldo1_500.gif

XaviorZeroBlazerSep 9, 20151 votes

didn't read what this was in responce to but, cubone playing the drums is always worth an upvote

The LovelessSep 10, 20151 votes

badumTSH

sreggadSep 8, 20151 votes

Even if this became a thing the only things that interact with crit damage as far as I can think of are quints and marks and IE. mages won't build IE. and the damage from AP or magic pen marks and quints would be superior in damage when looked at with the whole kit. most champions that have those magic crits only have one in there kit.

Dar RaksadaSep 8, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Even if this became a thing the only things that interact with crit damage as far as I can think of are quints and marks and IE. mages won't build IE. and the damage from AP or magic pen marks and quints would be superior in damage when looked at with the whole kit. most champions that have those magic crits only have one in there kit.

It might make fun offbuilds viable, at least it'd be consistent.

Smitty ManjensenSep 8, 20151 votes

Why are people making such a big deal out of it? Both karthus and anivia are not played much, plus 1 item reducing their damage on 1 skill which has low CD isn't gonna destroy them, also if someone buys randuin so he can reduce the damage of those 2 then he's a retard.

commit an heroSep 8, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Why are people making such a big deal out of it? Both karthus and anivia are not played much, plus 1 item reducing their damage on 1 skill which has low CD isn't gonna destroy them, also if someone buys randuin so he can reduce the damage of those 2 then he's a retard.

This is exactly the kind of lazy thinking that they are doing.

Smitty ManjensenSep 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

This is exactly the kind of lazy thinking that they are doing.

OK, if you think buying randuin to counter anivia and karthus is actually viable k, there are much more broken things in this game but noooo people are bitching because randuin reduces damage of 1 or 2 champions, of 1 skill by 10%.

Axis the DragonSep 8, 20155 votes

It's more because tanks will most likely be building Randuin's anyway (cuz ADCs are everywhere, yeah?)

Since Randuin's is built nearly every game where an ADC/physical carry is present (so like, nearly every game), Anivia and Karthus naturally deal about 10% reduced damage from their Q/E

Like, "alright team, so in about 80% of games, Anivia's E will deal about 35 less damage (not counting AP Ratio) because... because"

Why is that okay

Dar RaksadaSep 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4BOrLUB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-07T21:58:25.088+0000)

There are several abbilities that do bonus damage under certain conditions. Apparently Randuins counts those as critical strikes and reduces them.

Meddler confirmed this is intentional. Well it may be debatable but if they decide this is so, then fine, why not.

But then they also have to apply increases to those critical strikes. Notable Infinity Edge and Crit Damage Runes.

IE would be just an odd fringe case, same as Randuins, but the Runes could be interesting

As far as I know pant's q works the same way, counts a crit but ie doesn't affect it (I could be wrong)

Skia AsteriSep 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4BOrLUB,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-09-08T15:17:48.533+0000)

As far as I know pant's q works the same way, counts a crit but ie doesn't affect it (I could be wrong)

IE works the same way with it as with normal crits.

Courier EightSep 8, 20151 votes

If you were trying to protect yourself from those nasty solo Karthus bubbles, building magic resist would help you infinitely more than a item 3143 , and likewise if you wanted to deal more sweet bubble damage you would never build an item 3031 - you would build AP.

Likewise no magic crit champ is concerned with crit chance, because all of their crits involve them achieving specific scenarios.

blkKalameetSep 8, 20154 votes

The point is that an armor item is now able to reduce magic damage, because abilities that read "deals bonus damage under X condition" are apparently coded the same as crits.

Clearly it should not be an intended part of the items mechanics as an armor item to reduce damage done from magic. But if it is then the abilities effected by this should be reworded to clearly say they are critical damage, and they should receive the same treatment with items that alter critical damage.

But most people would like to see this obvious bug caused by there spaghetti code to be removed. There is no reason for an armor item to reduce magic damage.

Photos of GhostsSep 10, 20151 votes

Bump.