Zed's Ult should have an On Kill condition.

Duke Anax··106 votes·7,589 views

A lot of people are annoyed with Zed, but why exactly? According to Riot he is a healthy Assassin and I actually agree somewhat.

His assassination pattern is healthy, as it needs proper setup and execution, thus providing opportunities for counterplay. The problem is he is too save while doing that.

Assassins should be high risk, high reward. They have to wait for the right time then go in and take the kill. Not so Zed, he can go in whenever, do whatever damage he can and get back out with almost no risk.

The biggest problem here is his R, while his W is simmilar, it is fine as a scouting tool. He either goes in OR stays out. But whith his Ult, he does BOTH, going in and staying out at the same time.

I propose this little change:

Death Mark Active: Zed becomes untargetable for 0.75 seconds and dashes behind the target enemy champion. Upon arrival, he marks the target for death, ignores unit collision, and spawns a shadow that lasts for 6 seconds at the cast location.** When his target dies, Zed can reactivate Death Mark** to swap places with this shadow.

After 3 seconds or when Zed reactivates it, Death Mark will trigger, dealing flat physical damage plus a percentage of all physical and magic damage dealt to the marked champion while it was active.

This way Zed actually needs to think about using his ult and the enemy has a chance to capitalize on mistakes.

tl,dr For an Assassin Zed is too safe, his ult is going in and staying out at the same time. He should only be able to retreat after a success.

With him being less save he may be able to get more strength, like either going back to his shadow or marking a seond target. What do you think?

Edit: based on the response I added the option to manually detonate the mark early as compensation. That way he can leave as soon as he secures the kill. Or he can do some interesting things like avoiding Zhonya or QSS by using the mark early and then continue to attack for the kill and escape.

Edit 2: manual detonation brings us back to some of the same problems. So he probbably needs a slight damage reduction as well, so that he can't kill most targets in under three seconds. (considering his shadow escape lasts twice as long as the ult, he originally wasn't meant to do that anyway)

Best way to do that I think is reduce his damage some, but remove the penalty from hitting with both shadows. That way he can still burst you the same, but only when he sacrifices some of his escape.

Edit 3: watched some Zed vids again and noticed that often enough it's not actually the mark that kills, but rather the Q/E done by the ult shadow after switching place. So the manual detonation would not be as big a problem as originally thought.

Reminder: if you vote in the poll, also upvote the Discussion itself so it get's more attention. And stop downvoting the discussion if you disagree with the idea, that's what the poll is for.

110 Comments

AnCa18 votes

I think Zed is fine, and I am one of those people that like to play stuff like Xerath. He is suppose to have a really noticeable kill pressure when his ult is up, especially during midgame.

If he can only leave after you are completely dead, then he has to stay for the entire duration of the mark, which is really really long. Or does 100% of your hp with his other skills and attack. Both cases defeat the purpose of the idea behind his ult, doing "50-60%" damage get out safely and you die to the mark 2nd half damage.

So no I do not agree of the change. As much as I hate playing against assassins, I think they have a place on the rift, too. We are just seeing more of them, since repeatably killing your opponent give instant satisfaction. And its a simplistic way to snowball a game with mechanical skills alone without actual strategy play. (That is what I think Riot should fix not the the assassins' kits. How I really do not know.)

Duke Anax1 votes

I actually don't hate playing against Assassins, especially not Zed, because I play Soraka which is a good counter. I just think he would be better for the game with this adjustment.

Personally I think the purpose of the Mark should be to secure a kill when the enemy escapes the fight, not when Zed escapes.

Also, he still has his W.

And keep in mind that no change needs to stand alone, there can always be other adjustment, like reducing the timer on the mark.

I think fights currently are a bit too quick though. We don't need to get back to League of Tanks, but some time to follow what's going on and be able to react would be nice.

AnCa1 votes

Well I honestly just like the fluidity of the motion on Zed. I think that is one of attractiveness of his kit. And changing the ult to what you mention would hurt it quite a lot.

I think Zed's power through out a game is more linear than some other assassin who has really high or really low point. This gives him more reliability. And I like having a assassin that is a bit more reliable. (As reliable as a swingy assassin play can be......) Sure its makes Zed seems like he is ok strong all the time, but sometimes you have to play with assassins too. And I rather play with Zed than the assassin that have really mix results, like le blanc. (Zed has his vulnerable moments, too. But its more in terms of his skill CDR than a time period of during a game.)

People likes to play with assassin, and I feel better when there is one that they can pick that is more reliable in terms of results.

Duke Anax2 votes

I don't think it would hurt his fluidity and reliability that much. Actually when everything is done right, nothing changes in that regard.

The only thing that is supposed to change is giving his enemy a window of opportunity when the player makes a mistake (like attaking a high health target). The kit itself stays just as reliable, when used right.

AnCa3 votes

There are times when the goal is not to completely kill a person to 0 hp. Especially when the game get longer, sometimes the goal is to chunck a squishy who step out of position down enough that he/she has to back and leave the seige or let someone else to finish the job. If Zed can only leave after the target is dead, he cannot do any of those. Not to mention if Zed is behind, an ult that will only allow him to leave after the target is completely dead is pretty harsh.

Having a delayed ult shadow will definitely hurt his fluidity, its like adding a delay activation to le blanc blink back.

Edit: Also as an addition note. Most of the assassins has be tweaked recently and are not all that strong. For Zed he is sitting 46.97% win rate. If you want to justify nerfing a champion that apparently have a low winrate, there need to be major reason for it. (By the way since all the other assassins mid got nerf recently, guess who has the highest win rate of all champions? Katarina)

lojLxJvM8N1 votes

yet everyone complains about lees abysmal winrate

AnCa1 votes

Let's leave Lee out of this, that is another can of worms you do not want to open at the same time. There is probably another post somewhere we can rage and discuss about Lee Sin justify/unfair balances.

Alorasence1 votes

Assassins are popular because of how weak mages have gotten. Mana regen is crap and dfg is gone. With those changes is mind, mages that have no mana restoration passive cannot compete with the seemingly limitless waveclear/harass that zed can bring to the table.

So its not just that assassins are fun or satisfying. They are good in a meta where their competition has been nerfed.

AnCa1 votes

Since you weren't clear what mage is, so by mages I assume you mean the "stay away and shoot spell at you kind" of champions that also use mana.

I do agree the mana regen changes hurt the mana limited mages. And assassins has been good against those type of mages to begin with. So you are probably right its not just due to the feel good factor that assassins see a small resurgence.

But the resurgence is not all over the place. There are still mages that being played. And I meant at a lvl of play where ppl do have resonable mechanical skills. I for one do not have good mechanical skills so I will not use myself as example. So lets use plat and above games statistic.

If you go to a site call champion.gg and click the Middle Lane statistic. And pick the play percent tab from highest to lowest. You will notice the top 10 most played champions is a mix of assassins like Ahri, Katarina, LeBlanc, Zed and Kasaadin and 5 other mages. (Lissandra is somewhere in between a mage and assassins.) Out of these 5 assassins, 3 of them have less than 50% win rate. Win rate is by no means the most important factor when balancing a champion. But it does indicate that even though people are losing more by playing them, they do it anyways. This is what I meant people pick assassins on a fun and feel good factor of their kit instead of "good in a meta".

Here is the link if you do not want to google all that.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Middle

Like I said in another post. If we are going to talk about assassins nerf, talk about katarina first. Zed is fine.

The mage that used DFG was more assassins anyways, looking at you LB. (Ok Veigar is more mage than assassin thematically, but he technically still assassinate you in 1 or less rotation of spell.)

Alorasence1 votes

idk....

Annie was a mage. She used dfg. Syndra was a mage and she used dfg. Veigar. I used to go dfg on liss, but she isn't at all an assassin.

And for sure, plenty of mages are still relevant. But they tend to be the ones that can deal with mana problems. Liss and Xerath are prob the best examples. Maybe the only examples competetivley.

I think Zed is good because he forces people to buy seekers armgard in a world where mana regen is already nerfed. He makes mages that need to buy grail or morellos first really bad.

Kat does well against Zed. Liss does well agaisnt zed. A big reason for this is because they can both rush zhonyas pretty efficiently.

I don't think Zed is overpowered. I think Mages are underpowered. Being a mana reliant champion right now, with little mobility, big mana problems, will not allow you to clear waves or survive lane agaisnt lee sin, vi, jarvan walking around..... or lane alone agaisnt, kat, Zed, leblanc, ahri, et cetera.

AnCa1 votes

Well mid annie and syndra can both use DFG, but they certainly were not reliant on it. Its not like a must get kinda item. (Like how Ryze always get RoA or pre-nerf Fizz always get Lich Bane) If you clicked/searched what I mention in the last post. You would notice Annie is within the top 10 most picked mid laner (plat and above). AND she has a 55%+ winrate. So she certainly is not that hurt but the change. And prove that mage is still relevant for solo Q.

Another note here, a lot of champs cannot really be just separated into assassin or mage, most of the time their kit let them overlaps both roles a bit. Like Ahri, she can assassinate you sure, but she also have the some other mage like trait such as safe wave clear. Mid laner usually need to do more than 1 thing well. Or they can be easily exploited by the enemy. Or we can use Annie again, you categorizes her as a mage, but under some circumstance she can also 100-0 you. Its just not as prevalent most of the time.

I think we are actually in agreement here with everything else.

Mages that is not Liss/Xerath for mid lane is a bit underpowered for competitive, I assume you mean pro level. Other than the meta, this also has to do with mages usually take a lot longer to scale up compare to assassins. Champions that hit their power spike with 1 item is much better at winning a coordinated game like the pro LCS. Since early game always happen, but late game do not, thus they are also more reliable in that regard. Additionally, there is the snowballing effect, if you win early game, you can theoretically move on to win mid game then close the game out.

And to that point, the mid lane choice is already much more diverse than other role. And it is more diverse than the previous years. So I think Riot are doing a decent balancing job. (There are a bit of assassins, a bit of "mage" and even a bit of 2nd ADC mid).

Auryiel6 votes

He can either keep his safety or his endless waveclear, but not both

I was fine with his waveclear back when it felt like he was putting himself at risk when he was ulting me. Now? Not so much.

Knight SoIaire 4 votes

its a good change but it can backfire and become a buff zed who snowballs will just destroy you in a second since he can detonate the mark sooner

thats why i would remove the capability to actiwate the mark sooner the core of zed being a healthy assasin is that he needs to stay in for 3 seconds and if he manages it he gets the reward of teleporting away and completly removing the capability for enemy to punish him the problem with zed is that once he snowballs he doesnt stay in for those 3 seconds but is free to pop out after less than 2, meaning that enemy cant respond to his atack, while even if target survives zed doesnt realy lose anything looking at how low is his ult cd at late levels

your change is good because it forces zed to stay for the full duration more often but if zed snowballs it doesnt stop him from being toxic

Deadliest One4 votes

I think there would be less counter play since Zed could trigger his death mark.

I explain myself:

If he can go in, cast all his spells and trigger the death mark by himself, then get out, where is the counter play? As Zed is actually, you can save the person who have been ''death marked'' if you have heal and a shield, like janna or nami. If Zed could trigger his deathmark, there would be no time for supports or other persons on your team to react, or it would be really, REALLY short.

I guess if the deathmark would be lasting 3 seconds, without the ability to recast it, AND that Zed should wait his target to be dead before getting back to his shadow, He would be REALLY balanced.

Angry Monster3 votes

According to Riot he is a healthy Assassin and I actually agree.

Then you say

The problem is he is too save while doing that.

So you just countered your self. Congrats. Its NOT healthy if he is to safe.

Solidair33 votes

How about, if zed has done enough damage to guarantee a kill (when the shuriken appears above an ulted target) Zed may reactivate his ult to switch places with his shadow.

Hyrum Graff2 votes

Scenario: Fed Zed ults you, q-e-aa's you, reactivates R to kill you. You're dead in like .5 seconds after he reappears from his ult.

tbh I think zed's ult is in a pretty good place as it is. People say how it has no penalty to use, but the cooldown is really long early.

This coming from someone who's only ever played Zed in all for one mirror mode -- I'm not just trying to protect my main or something.

Haunt3 votes

While I agree Zed needs some counterplay changes, I don't think this is the right way to do it.

I play Zed and Talon a lot. Before Zed's ult was changed, he was basically a suicide bomber. He rushed someone and either killed the whole team, killed one person and then died, or just flat out died. This was because he had no way to run afterwards since you most likely had to use w to close the gap. Talon's play style is the same thing. He suicides in for someone, the difference here is that he has his invisibility to try and run after.

The change you're saying will make Zed into the same thing as before. There is almost never a time mid/late game where you wait for the ADC to blow up by the mark to go back to your R shadow. And how would this work with QSS? Someone completely negates the mark and they will be literally untouchable, and you will be fucked. The difference between before and with this change is that Zed's ult used to put a shadow behind them, so you brought damage to your suicide attempt if they had qss. But if we did this change, if they got qss you're not going to be able to do anything. They will live and you will die.

Basically what I'm saying is that his late game assassinating will be terrible. The ADC will no doubt get a QSS, the AP carry will have a Zhonyas, the Jungler and top laner will probably too tanky, and you don't wanna ult the support. So basically any other assassin would be better at his job late game, because each of them have a way to keep fighting after a combo, or get out.

That's my opinion on it, as someone that's played Zed since basically release.

Troy2426213 votes

Zed is NOT a healthy assassin design. Waveclear, near ungankability, after going in on a target he has his choice of 3 methods to escape back out and has entirely too many tools at his disposal to "Outplay."

I read somewhere that when dying to Zed, you rarely feel outplayed. You merely feel out-kitted, and I certainly do see their point,...Zed NEEDS more risk.

Krynge Jaikers6 votes

I hear all the time about Zed's ungankability, but everyone seems to forget that to waveclear and poke he has to use his shadow, which is also his only escape method aside from flash. On the other hand, you've got LeBlanc and Ahri.

Troy2426211 votes

Just because other champions are even more abusive with this type of mechanic doesn't give Zed a free pass on it. As if I don't have issues with those two doing it as well.

Krynge Jaikers4 votes

My point is, Zed is far from ungankable and his W cooldown is pretty long, especially at early levels. You named a strenght that is not fair to say he has.

Troy2426211 votes

I said nearly. If he wastes his shadow while overextended and his Flash is down, then yeah he has no escape.

Krynge Jaikers3 votes

Then that isn't nearly. Every champion can use flash, so I'm not even going to touch on that, but if Zed doesn't use his shadow to trade then he gets outtraded, and if he does use his shadow to trade then he's open for a gank.

Zed is too safe... but not in lane.

Troy2426211 votes

Flash is relevant because it synergizes with his already present juking potential, even with just his ultimate. Even if he messes up on his escape or Hell wastes shadow entirely, he can still get out of it from time to time. That is MUCH less true with an immobile champion who banks on Flash more heavily than Zed does.

Troy2426211 votes

I'm telling you that objectively, he is very safe in lane, and I feel as though the community, as a whole, would agree.

"He only has one," doesn't really make it better. I get what you're trying to say, but when counterplay exists but is entirely negated by common sense (In this case just not being stupidly extended when using shadow aggressively) it isn't really sufficient.

Compare him to champions ACTUALLY vulnerable to ganks. Talon has no escape until 6, and it's on his ultimate. It has a minute long cooldown and significantly hurts his burst until it's back up again, lowering his threat and kill potential in lane. Forcing him to pop it has meaning.

Diana, Cassiopeia, Lux, Malzahar, Orianna, Ryze, Swain, Twisted Fate, Xerath. Champions that do not have a panic escape button under ANY situation aside from Flash. THEY are the ones prone to being abused by gankers. Your argument is that Zed's has to have SOME thought before throwing away your safety net? Come on, that's flimsy and you know it.

Hell even if Zed uses his shadow, he can pop his ultimate delay and try to juke them out. I've seen that before, too. Ungankable? No. No champion is ungankable. More safe than most champions? Yes, he objectively is.

Krynge Jaikers1 votes

He isn't more safe than most champions, objectively - only more safe than other melee assassins. Orianna, Cass, Lux, Malz, Swain, TF, and Xerath can all farm easily from range then just back off, and usng your argument, Talon doesn't need an escape, does he? He can just use common sense and not extend, and wait for the wave to fall under his turret, right?

Troy2426211 votes

I'm pretty sure you're ignoring the basis of my argument on purpose. His shadow can be used offensively or defensively. Wasting it for offense when you are at risk for being ganked because you're within a stone throw of the enemy tower with no vision is utterly stupid.

Zed has range and waveclear, AND isn't gated by mana like they are. Don't even come at me with that crap.

Talon doesn't need an escape because he can hide under tower? I never said that, and it's pure straw man because you don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. Zed is a safe champion.

NOW TO BE CLEAR. If it were my call, I would not nerf Zed's mobility. That playmaking is what defines Zed, and it's utterly stupid to suggest changing an identity. However, he's a playmaking assassin. He doesn't need farming capacity on top of it. I'd look at that.

Krynge Jaikers1 votes

If Zed is "within a stone throw of the enemy tower with no vision," he's will most likely die to a gank regardless. If Zed is at the half way point of the lane without his shadow, he's still a reasonable gank for most junglers. If Zed doesn have his shadow up at either distance, and you force him to use it with a gank, then that is a lengthy 18 second opening for you to either gank him again, or let him be zoned off of the minion wave heavily.

Zed does have waveclear - as do many other assassins and mages. If Zed uses his combo on the wave to waveclear, not only are his abilities all on cooldown, but he has anywhere from 40 to 70 energy left depending on his level/ ranks in his abilities. Another opening to engage on him. Energy is made to be strong early/ in short bursts, whereas mana becomes near trivial as the game progresses.

I can't really say much as to how strong Zed is right now, but I think we're both giving a good example of how easy it is to over exaggerate a champion's strengths and weaknesses. By nerfing Zed's waveclear potential you make it more difficult for him to farm from a distance early (meaning he has to use his shadow for waveclear meaning more openings of vulnerability for you), and you make his splitpushing weaker, also hurting his late game ability as many Zeds resort to that as a result of the difficulties that come with teamfighting as Zed and most assassins in general (excluding a few). However, Zed still has his get out of jail free card that is the root of complaints - he goes in with ultimate, and he misses everything/ another enemy shows up/ he kills you/ etc. and presses R a second time and he's out - he lacks punishment for committing. If Zed were to be nerfed, going for his waveclear would hurt, but I'm not entirely sure that would be the best plan of action.

Partholonian1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tell Remire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hLbpW3m4,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2015-02-18T18:28:54.737+0000)

On the other hand, you've got LeBlanc and Ahri.

Both of whom have lousy waveclear that is also mana gated.

Meep Man1 votes

{quoted}

Both of whom have lousy waveclear that is also mana gated.

Ahri? Lousy wave clear? HA! HAHA! But LeBlanc has terrible clear.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

I like this. I'd say actually make this change to his ultimate, and then give his ultimate some other stat buffs while active. Whether it be bonus armor and MR while the shadow is present but not able to be teleported to, or even bonus offensive stats to help secure that kill.

It would finally stop him tower diving, getting the ult and ignite on you, then escaping from your turret at next to no health and 2 seconds later you die from the DoTs. At least now he'd have to survive under your tower for a bit. Particularly makes sense at levels 6-8 when the turret should still be a reasonable place to be safe and he can just solo kill you under it from a health disadvantage without second thought.

DanofDemacia19 votes

Why do people think you need compensation buffs with a Nerf? If a champ is straight out op then a straight out Nerf with no compensation buff is fine.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

I agree that an op champion can get a straight nerf with no compensation buffs. Thing is, Riot doesn't think zed is op - they never will. He has a 47% win rate, along the lowest in the game.

He's oppressive and annoying and ban-worthy because he's too safe and too good at tower diving. Make his ultimate unable to teleport back until he's secured the kill, and he'll fade to obscurity. He'll go from only good at high elo to good nowhere.

Regardless if that assessment is accurate or not, Riot isn't going to nerf a champion with a 47% win rate outright without a compensation buff aka a slight rework. His kit is too safe which requires capping him otherwise - reduce the safety and he can be buffed. I'm just being realistic.

Respakt4 votes

Win rate is not an accurate statistic to determine champion power/viability/balance. Dota 2 possesses even higher winrate extremes than League. Abbadon has a 57.53% winrate on average, however he is rarely played in the professional scene. Io, on the other hand, at the bottom of the spectrum has a 40.00% winrate, however is considered one of the most dangerous heroes in Dota banned the second most of all heroes in a recent large tournament, the Dota Asian Championship. Giving buffs to Io for having a 40% winrate does not make any sense because he is already oppressive to a degree. Abbadon needs buffs but is oppressive in low skill brackets and therefore will likely remain a king of pubs but technically not viable. Io's winrate is very low similar to Zed in a degree because it takes a great deal of knowledge and practice to execute their corresponding strategies correctly. This skill floor causes the hero/champ to have a low winrate, but once the floor is surpassed, they have exceeding power. Abbadon is one of the easiest heroes to play, having no skill shots and a straight forward strategy of running straight at the person you want to kill causing him to easily be kitted and therefore countered. Some people would argue that the high skill cap champ deserves to be extremely better due to their extreme skill requirement difference, however this can lead to huge imbalance such as in Zed and Io's case. Two years ago Io had a 100% winrate at the years biggest tournament The International 3. At the time, I believe Io's winrate was worse with around an average of 38%. If hero/champ is only broken when a small population uses it, it does not justify their brokeness.

Ulquiorra9952 votes

He just needs to have his wave clear and/or poke heavily toned down. It is fair that he can delete someone if he gets the upper hand, that's what assassins do. It is not fair that he can farm like a mage and then roam if things go south.

Remember that overall mana nerfs were what made him OP now. Also remember there was time when he was considered UP with the exactly same kit. He only needs to be put back in line.

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

Remember that overall mana nerfs were what made him OP now.

To me, this implies that now is the wrong time to change Zed at all. Riot needs to fix the overall state of mana in the game, and until that is done, you really can't expect a manaless champion to be balanced against mana users. Reevaluate Zed after game-wide mana fixes are done.

Of course, if they intend for all mana users to stay crippled for the rest of the season or even longer, then this doesn't apply, but I doubt that they do intend that.

Cindikle2 votes

I think it is an interesting idea. But part of the problem is that his R's damage is meant to not require him to be there.

Maybe change it to "Activating the execution mark will allow Zed to travel back to his R's shadow".

Overall, I think he mainly needs adjustments to his laning phase than his ulti. It's really the only place he's currently a problem.

Colgate Gator2 votes

While I'm on board with this, I think the change should be more like "If the death mark appears on the enemy Champion he can warp back with R" (The death mark aka the suriken that pretty much says you're done for).

Either that or make the mark go off a bit faster, but yeah, he should have some risk.

PerishSoftly2 votes

I LOVE this idea both as someone who hates trying to trade with Zed when he ults for a risky dive and as an Assassin player who likes thematic abilities.

tainteddaze2 votes

they should just remove his 10% bonus magic damage passive with below 50% hp and give him something like this. When zed has a shadow out he gains x% movespeed and goes away 1 second after shadow disappears. This way he is nerfed in a area that isn't really part of his kit more just a broken design added to help him secure kills with zero thought behind it. This way people will feel like they are able to play with zed passive more and it always reduces his power to wave clear as easily against minions which he should have more risk at doing anyway.

Zoe Biden2 votes

I feel that you are focusing more on zeds ability to kill a target and then escape rather than the fact that he can kill a target, the reason riot probably wont make this change this is because, unless zed is incredibly fed, he has to burn most if not all of his cd's on a single target to kill them. After he has done that he is fairly defenseless, since he has little survivability in a team fight. I main adc and instead of complaining about how OP zed is and how he can kill me really fast I just buy a item 3140 and tell my team to keep him off me. If enough of a team is keeping a zed from assassinating his target then that target will probably not die, assuming zed is not extremely fed. At this point the zed has blown all of his cd's and not taken someone out of the fight, and we then proceed to win the fight after that point.

Its also important to point out that if they were to change his ultimate in this way they would probably have to buff his ability to kill a target, so in the end he would still have a way out and there would be less counter play to him.

As a third point if they were to do this to zed they would also have to change various other assassins like Le blanc.

TL DR; zeds ult is in a good place as it is and there is already enough counter play to the ability, it would be unhealthy for him and the game as a whole to change this. Just buy a item 3140 or item 3157, and coordinate with your team to keep him from doing his job

iHUfdCT2792 votes

Zed already has so much counterplay and is sitting at a 48% winrate, they already nerfed his base attack speed, and i think any further nerfs would just butcher him completely.

O Fallen Scholar2 votes

Zed is fine if you know what you're up against.

Otherwise I recommend LoLwiki for that information or guides throughout the internet.

Krynge Jaikers1 votes

I'm curious as to whether or not returning his ult to its old function where his shadow would be placed behind his target as opposed to where he was when he cast his ultimate would fix the complaints people have against Zed.

Duke Anax1 votes

The thing is, in that case he wouldn't have the escape at all, which makes it suicide on his part. I don't think that is the solution either.

maikokk1 votes

zed isnt the problem, its zeds relation to the power level of previously meta midlaners that is the problem. either riot buffs mages to compensate for mana problems, or we start basing the mid lane meta around counters to zed, much like support meta shifted when thresh dominated support. inb4 kayle/lulu mid becomes a thing again

Duke Anax1 votes

This is not even about his power level, more about feel and patterns.

I made an effort to not outright nerf him in this suggestion.

maikokk2 votes

its an outright nerf. if you cant see why... you probably don't play zed.

ill make it simple: until zed is fed, he cant duel.

you are asking zed to duel someone long enough to to pop his ult at a precisely calculated time. too soon, and the target wont die... and he will with no escape. too late? hes dead before he can pop his ults damage. meaning unless someone is retarded enough to stick around at low health with zed around, he will likely die trying to get his first kill unless his timing is perfect. nobody else in the game has such a high risk assassination combo.

straight4free1 votes

I think his cooldown on his ult should be increased by 50%, decreased to current rate if it scores a kill.

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