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Guys, I know you don't like the new AP itemization...

Melledoneus··6 votes·889 views

But really? With all the hyperbolic, harsh criticism filled with so much vitriol and toxicity I might need to visit the hospital... it's no wonder Riot doesn't like to try new things and tell the community. Jeez, they're telling us beforehand, at least! Unlike some reworks (cough Cassiopeia/Mordekaiser cough) where they went with it regardless. I'm not exactly happy about an item giving a dash, but if I want to tell Riot, I'll tell them humanely. Sure, maybe riling up the boards is the best way to get upvotes. But please, just take a second to consider that these are tentative and Riot is testing them to see which ones would work and which wouldn't. That being said...

I personally find these 4 problems the main issues: 1. AP itemization is becoming highly centered around stats in places that don't belong there (i.e. CDR on Zhonya's) 2. Itemization is weird and can break some champions easily (Annie with Hextech "Rocket Belt") 3. The shifting of mana regen stats to flat mana (which obviously favor mana stackers, and favor champions with smaller mana pools less) 4. The essential downgrading of MR options to counter the influx of burst and sustained damage from these new items. Tanks will suffer the most from this update.

If I missed anything, just let me know! But please, guys, I know you're pissed. But these changes aren't going live yet, so there is no reason to complain about something that's still being tested. Let's all settle down, tell Riot what's wrong with this update, and if they don't listen to us, THEN we can go bat-shit crazy. Ok?

17 Comments

Alüe3 votes

I think the issue is, riot wants to give that "variety" to ap mages. Here is the issue, ad has crit, attack speed and relies heavily in some cases on life steal (yes there are some exceptions). The issue is for mages other than building straight AP and there role being damage, why would i need to build for anything else? Considering the majority of mages rely heavily on that ap to make themselves useful in game, it infuriates players... myself as well. that this is being ignored about and riot wants to seemingly evade it.

DrCyanide3 votes

I think the problem is there a lot of changes that are very, very different and will dramatically change your playstyle, but very few of those changes feel like things that will help you.

**Items we're familiar with: **

  • item 3174 -> Support Item.
  • item 3165 -> Flat Mana instead of regen. Late game, with current mana costs, it powers 3 Xerath Q's. That doesn't impress me much.
  • item 3010 / item 3028 -> Require you to play a health/mana minigame to get mana/health... forgive me if the idea of stepping too close to an assassin so I can get a tiny bit more mana back doesn't sound appealing. As someone else put it, "Catalyst is a perfect Tank item now, since it encourages them to tank damage. Not so great for mages that are suppose to avoid taking damage though."
  • item 3070 -> This will be bought by everyone that doesn't want to play the above minigame. Such a hard "meaningful tradeoff", getting the best mana item left in the game and getting more AP for it.
  • item 3152 -> Gone. I think many players were hoping that with Vlad's rework they'd get a shot at actually healing up their mage when fighting stalled out instead of having to back.
  • item 3027 -> Loses AP, Loses Mana, Loses Mana per stack. Good news for supports: it's cheaper now.
  • item 3157 -> Loses AP and the active cooldown shoots up to 120 seconds, in exchange for CDR and being 500g cheaper. Fun Fact: There's no AD item with an Active cooldown that long.
  • item 3001 -> Fairly neutral change, leaves the question of when you want to pick it up.

So unless you're a Support Main or a Ryze Main, there's no good news. At best, if everything works out, it's neutral news, but it's nothing to get excited about and a lot to worry about.

Items we're not familiar with:

  • Lost Chapter -> 20% of maximum mana regenerated upon leveling up will make it OK, but I don't know if it will feel like a smart choice for players picking it. Riot themselves makes it sound like you're suppose to build both this and a Tear.
  • ***Rocket Belt ***-> This one isn't going to last. We already know what happens if you give everyone the option to have mobility: you get a summoner spell item that's taken by everyone, every game. It'll be used primarily AP Tanks, AP Assassins, and a few others to go in (Annie, Lissandra), and used by all others to try and dodge skillshots or extend the range of long range abilities. Fun Fact: With a 30 second cooldown Active, it'll have the shortest cooldown of any AP Item.
  • Frost Cannon (GLP-07A) -> A 0.5 second slow that decays isn't exactly something to write home about, so people picking this are likely doing so for the damage, which is less than the Rocket Belt. It's building from that new Catalyst, so it's probably geared for our tanky initiators more than mages.

The one of these worth talking about is Rocket Belt. Did you realize it's cheaper than Zhonyas, gives more AP, and has an active that can be used 4 times as often?

Riot's worried it'll be abused, players are worried it'll be abused, if it's even halfway decent it's going to be abused.

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/79cto3EB-planned-69-mana-x-mp5-x-ap-x-mr-item-pass?comment=0012000000000000

The Frost Cannon sounds like a more damage oriented version of the old FQC active to me.

TL:DR: No matter how I look at the information they gave us, there's no hope here. These changes aren't going to help out the mages I play, but they're considering some changes that will very likely hurt the mages I play. It's no wonder the community is pessimistic about it.

WeaselGod2 votes

it's no wonder Riot doesn't like to try new things

Uhhh what. They're constantly trying to push in stupid fucking gimmicks for this game that no one asked for in order to make the game "different" from the other mobas.

Melledoneus4 votes

Ok, so let's just never update the game. No new champions, game modes, items, etc. See how quickly you get bored of it.

WeaselGod1 votes

There's nothing wrong with adding new champions. What's stupid is that they're oconstantly adding gimmicks that are just annoying. Take the fucking skarner mini-game for example.

Melledoneus2 votes

Then what should they do? It's hard to be unique when pretty much everything has been done.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Like 50 shades of invincibility added in the last 12 months.

Melledoneus1 votes

You have a point, but again, hyperbolic. Riot wants feedback, not lashback.

MoonToonEx1 votes

I think it's important to remember that these items and item changes are coming with, ya know, champ changes/ reworks/ updates.

Who is to say that they aren't changing mages to make better use of THESE items? "This item would make Annie broken!" Yeah ... as she is now. As she is now she flashes in and drops and ult on a group of chumps. If she has a dash that's on a 30 sec CD then yeah, that's gonna suck. But Annie is confirmed to have changes to her kit that shift power away from summoning her bear. It's supposed to power more power into having her bear on the field and push some away from her reg kit. Until you know what changes the mages will go through it's premature to whine about it in the items.

Melledoneus1 votes

Which is why I'm not "whining," as you imply. There just need to be adjustments. These are the issues based on the current state of the game.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Wanna talk about mana regen versus flat mana? Just think of Talon. Yes, we all know he's an AD assassin, but just consider the mana and spell expenditures for now.

If you have seen and/or played him, you know how easily he goes OOM after one rotation of spells. That sucks, right?

You can buy mana regen on him to solve that OOM problem, but what good does it do if by the time he finally gains such mana (which is probably ~20 seconds) he alredy got no more work to do? That's where flat mana is preferred.

Though it would be nice if there's more mana regen options for non-supportive, non-bursty combo mages other than tear.

DrNova1 votes

Number 4 is wrong. There is no extra burst or sustained ed damage being added. Total we are losing 80ish ap, more if you count Athene's unholy grail being fucked over I to a support item.

Melledoneus3 votes

Have you seen the new hextech ricket belt item? It's a mini Ahri ult.

DrNova1 votes

{quoted}

Have you seen the new hextech ricket belt item? It's a mini Ahri ult.

I don't remember the damage on it. But its a Hurst, not targeted at anything.

And the majority of mages will use it as escape. Fee mages want to ENGAGE on the enemy. That's against their whole play style.

Its an extra flash for most mages, and will make a few mages more oppressive, like cho, Annie, ekko. The damage part is where you land, which doesn't help most mages who want to stay away from the enemy.

If the nova was from the DEPARTURE point, it would be useful to mages. As is, its damage is wasted on most.

Melledoneus1 votes

The main point was that there are many new items coming in that are new. People will build more AP as a result, and naturally will deal more damage on average. Since the utility portion is complete, they can build less defense and more damage.

Not to mention that the point was mainly about tanks lacking MR options. We have item 3102 item 3065 and at a stretch item 3512, which are basically the only MR items that aren't utilized for supports. In general, nerfing the MR on Spirit Visage was a bad move, seeing as how MR is EXACTLY what tanks need to live through this mage update.

DrNova1 votes

{quoted}

The main point was that there are many new items coming in that are new. People will build more AP as a result, and naturally will deal more damage on average. Since the utility portion is complete, they can build less defense and more damage.

Not to mention that the point was mainly about tanks lacking MR options. We have item 3102 item 3065 and at a stretch item 3512, which are basically the only MR items that aren't utilized for supports. In general, nerfing the MR on Spirit Visage was a bad move, seeing as how MR is EXACTLY what tanks need to live through this mage update.

None of that makes any logical sense. Why are people building more ap? There is a net LOSS of ap from these items. There is nothing here at all that adds up to more damage.

Utility? Adding a dash item is it, and that isn't "fixed it" utility. There isn't anything actually new or good.

Tanks are hard enough for ap to kill. Anyone not ad based struggles vs tanks unless highly fed.

Lowering Mr a little won't be hurting tanks or bruisers much. Not that I'm advocating lowering the stat, but it will help mages be a little more relevant vs them.

Melledoneus1 votes

The worst part is there is no such thing as a tank exclusive item. Bruisers and juggernauts build tank items, deal more damage, and end up more tanky for some stupid reason.

My main issue is that there aren't many options for MR besides an item made to help out sustainers and a spellshield item. The other is a utility item and gives no HP, so it's difficult to bulk up against AP heavy teams.

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