Pink wards shouldn't trip raptor bonus

megagnura·Jan 23, 2015·104 votes·15,932 views

SEEING as pink wards are already visible why do they even trip in the first place? I would really like to see pink wards not activate the raptor smite

EDIT: I understand that the raptor bonus is meant to either make sure you haven't been spotted or to inform you that you have been spotted by a ward. The reason I don't like it when the raptor bonus activates on a pink ward is because pink wards are ALWAYS in bushes and when you invade you are should be checking all those bushes anyways for traps and pink wards but if you are invading the enemy jungle and you are spotted by a pink ward that is in a bush you would have checked anyways its a gamble if you want to take their buff because there could still be a normal ward hidden inside the very bush you are standing in and you won't know.

40 Comments

SaixosJan 23, 201543 votes

The point of the raptor buff is to let you know when you're SPOTTED by a ward. Being able to clear the ward is just a bonus perk of it. Simply having it alert you that a pink ward is in a bush near you is just as useful as letting you kill a sight ward, either way you get to kill a ward, and with the pink it'll prevent it from staying there the entire game.

I don't really think this is a problem, I view the primary benefit of the raptor buff to be letting you know when you're NOT spotted by a ward so that you know if you're clear to gank or not.

Grouchy PoroJan 23, 20151 votes

Agreed. I also grab it now every time I go in to counter jungle (new double smite system helps). It's your fail safe, like 'I know 100% the enemy doesn't know for sure where I am'.

RiotZenonTheStoicJan 24, 201522 votes

I was originally on OP's side while we were testing the Season 2015 changes, but I've come around to just this way of seeing things. Knowing there's a ward (pink or otherwise) in a brush is very valuable. Also not knowing which brush it is in allows you to play a pretty cool mindgame between yourself and the warding enemy team. I think the Raptors buff is actually in a great place.

InsaneSamuraiJan 24, 20153 votes

Well, have you thought of it this way?

When you smite any other camp, you get an instant, guaranteed benefit(Wolves aren't guaranteed to help, but you always get a guaranteed moving unkillable ward, so you get vision). When you smite raptors, you might get something. If you spot a ward, you know it's there(maybe), but it's duration is so low that if there is anything else going on when you spot the ward you have to use your sweeper to get it anyway. Combine this with the fairly common tactics of placing a trinket inside the raptor pit just to waste the buff, or placing any ward in the bush next to raptors so the buff procs instantly and if the jungler doesn't stop killing raptors right away and go to the bush to kill it, it did nothing. The cool mind game is neat and all, but when you have to play this game just to get any benefit at all from the camp, it doesn't seem right. Also, considering that in most normal conditions you should always assume the enemy is warding, simply knowing a ward is there is an extremely small benefit.

I think because of this, allowing vision wards to pass by the proc would make more sense to me. If you take it as the primary function is to reveal stealthed things moreso than specifically spot wards(if not , why does it work on a shaco box but not a heimer turret?), than it wouldn't proc because it's not revealing anything.

megagnuraJan 24, 20155 votes

I really like how it tells you when you are detected but often it tells you that their is a pink ward in the bush you were already walking into and the raptor bonus is wasted on something that would have happened anyways

Remlap1223Jan 24, 20153 votes

Hey Zenon, while your idea is great in theory, I'm seeing people placing stealth wards right on top of the Raptor camp in order to make the vision useless. Is there any way that you can give some immunity to that after you smite? Maybe like 5 seconds?

RiotRiot SotereJan 24, 20155 votes

Heyas Remlap,

We have gone back and forth internally whether this 'preventative' warding is clever counterplay or a cheesy tactic to cheat junglers out of one of their rewards. Mostly we lean towards the former, and there's certainly a cost associated for the warding team.

Remlap1223Jan 24, 20151 votes

Fair enough, just wanted an outside opinion.

maikokkJan 25, 20152 votes

it is neither. warding near wraiths (now raptors) has always been an optimal location for deep warding.

SecretAgentHulkJan 24, 20151 votes

That...that makes sense. Thanks!

Shadow GilgameshJan 23, 20157 votes

Especially since the bush by raptors is a really common place for pinks to be put.

Duke AnaxJan 23, 20154 votes

then look for the pink before you take raptors...

Blazing TenshiJan 23, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o6E62tqY,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-01-23T20:13:45.632+0000)

then look for the pink before you take raptors...

Teemo shrooms all around the chickens, look for them all first or GG chicken buff.

Duke AnaxJan 24, 20151 votes

What's your point? That is exactly what the buff is for...

Blazing TenshiJan 24, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o6E62tqY,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2015-01-24T02:26:43.680+0000)

What's your point? That is exactly what the buff is for...

The best part about that buff is being able to walk around and know where there are no wards so unless you never find a ward the earlier you find a ward the less useful the buff is. The buff is made nearly useless if it is immediately popped by a 30s cd teemo shroom because you gain almost no information

TheKingDodoJan 23, 20154 votes

Chickens can't spot wards. The whole thing with the buffs is that they represent some aspect of the animal. Dogs are natural guards, so wolves that are pwned (domesticated) then become guards. Toads are poisonous, so they give you poison buff, golems hit hard, so they give you stun + tower killer buff, red rekts your health so they give you health instead, blue gives you mana so they give you mana :/ Anyways, chickens are pretty stupid and can't spot wards for shit, I propose we change chicken camp to small spider camps, and change the buff name to "spidey sense" which is more thematically appropriate. Wards are dangerous -> sense wards (regardless of pink or green). Just my 1.5 cents

Flames99FuseJan 24, 201511 votes

Correction sir, they are not chickens, they are raptors. Also known as birds of prey. Examples include the eagle, falcon, owl, vulture, buzzard, ~~penguins~~, etc. They are called birds of prey because they eat other animals, aka the prey. Mostly rodents, lizards, fish, or other small creatures that dart around quickly. They need the eyesight to find these animals as often they have adapted camouflage or are naturally good hiders. So, with the laser accurate eyes, they can see a lot, finding wards would be the least of their worries.

YOU BEEN WARNEDJan 23, 20152 votes

Or, why don't we nerf Raptor camp damage and make the smite bonus an indicator without the stealth reveal bonus ? The fact you can see invisible champions with it isn't a mechanic that should exist in the game. :\

trexmixGJan 23, 201511 votes

thats the point of the buff... reveal invisible shit

YOU BEEN WARNEDJan 24, 20151 votes

You don't make something so easy to access available to champions whose power points rely on it. Riot is questioning the removal of grievous wounds and Raptor Camp is doing this to stealth champions.

For example, to get grievous wounds you'll need to pay 2300g for a item 3165 or take a specialized summoner spell summoner 14 . For detecting stealth champions on the other hand.. Smite is basically compulsory on each team and so it shouldn't have an extremely specialized power like champion stealth detection. It's already enough that it detects Teemo shrooms and Shaco boxes.

In my opinion it's much more healthy to have it apply the " item 2047 visual" when a ward is nearby whenever you pass by one for the duration up to say, 3 wards or time expiration without the sweeping effect. That actually helps junglers not waste time when ganking and doesn't damage stealth mechanics.

OperationDEEZ1Jan 24, 20153 votes

It's better counterplaying for jackasses like Akali where the support would probably otherwise just buy a bajillion pinks.

Kitten of EvilJan 24, 20151 votes

Almost every mage goes for Morellonomicon though.

PhifeJan 23, 20151 votes

those arent raptors they are chickens.

straight4freeJan 24, 20151 votes

If the pink ward is in a bush, it does help the jungler to find it.

MeesterMooJan 24, 20151 votes

It's because if you go around a bush and you cant see what is in it, then you don't have to check every bush

PickleBabahJan 24, 20151 votes

I feel like there should be a drawback to it and that it is completely reasonable for the fact that a) you can't always spot the ward if you don't walk into the bush and b) being one of the strongest buffs throughout all phases of the game it needs a prominent drawback, as Krugs can only stun and deal bonus damage to turrets; Wolves can only be used defensively; and Gromp feels very passive and unnoticed in the big picture; ultimately, comparative to potentially limiting the enemy's vision, delaying or even winning a fight, the other buffs feel minuscule.

KivolanJan 24, 20151 votes

When I Sup I actually place one of my stealth wards right in the raptor nest just to troll. :3

LeeDarkJan 24, 20151 votes

It's already the best jungle buff there is. It doesn't need a buff of its own.

InsaneSamuraiJan 24, 20151 votes

It's not the best buff there is when the enemy mid laner keeps trolling you with his trinkets :P

LeeDarkJan 24, 20151 votes

A ward is a ward. If the enemy mid is using his just to use up your raptor smite buff, then he lacks a ward somewhere else. Gank him.

InsaneSamuraiJan 24, 20151 votes

Yeah its a ward, but killing a trinket is rarely that helpful unless its upgraded.

LeeDarkJan 26, 20151 votes

Except chances are that the mid didn't come to lane with two other wards. He drops a trinket on Chickens to pop the buff, and there is a good chance that IF he has a ward, it is on the non-wraith side of the lane. And you should know whether he brought a ward to lane or not, if you are paying attention to inventory. You are now a threat to gank mid, and if you pressure him or kill him, he'll start using his trinket a little more selfishly.

EDIT: Not to mention that you can still counterjungle, smite the other Chicken, and get a replacement buff that way. It isn't exactly the most difficult camp to invade.

megagnuraJan 24, 20151 votes

This idea isn't meant to be a buff or a nerf just a quality of life thing It prevents the annoying situation of losing your raptors to a pink ward that you were going to find anyways, but also creates the opportunity of counter play by hiding your pink wards in clever spots that people won't usually check

FluxBoundJan 24, 20151 votes

tbh, They shouldn't get full true vision for the wardkilling. If you're twitch, akali, etc. and you warded your lane, instead of a turnaround you get a suprise death as you are not invisible

CrackedOnSticksJan 24, 20151 votes

I won 7 out of 10 provisionals this season and got worst than i had last season i was B3 last season and i got B4 this season this has made me very sad and was wondering why i got even lower this season, please explain thanks , CaptinCowz

Thee ZerOJan 25, 20151 votes

I don't think it's very insightful to say that chicken smite buff will let you know if you're spotted. There are other ways to be spotted -- for example if minions or champions see you -- that also rightfully don't set it off. The power of this smite buff is first and foremost in ward clearing; pink wards being the type of ward that doesn't need magical vision. Thus, when you as a jungler have your chicken smite buff tripped by a pink ward, you feel like you have (almost) essentially wasted your smite buff. There are times, however, that I wouldn't have checked a bush without the smite buff triggering, but I'd still rather not change this.

In short, I agree with OP.

GaleWinUnleashedJan 25, 20151 votes

But there are others (myself included) that believe the main function of the raptor buff is to inform you that you have NOT been spotted by a ward yet. This information is extremely helpful when ganking, because it means you can wait a short time for an opportune moment, instead of charging straight in because maybe they can see you. It's even better for counter-jungling, which is a risky business at the best of times. Knowing for certain whether or not you've been seen feels incredible.

WayasheJan 25, 20151 votes

Think of it this way, even if they do ward to set it off right at the Raptor camp, here's what you get:

+20 Gold for killing the ward on top of killing the camp

1 Ward on the map from whomever set it, and if it was a non-trinket ward that's another one the enemy team needs to place, buying your team time to go catch them if you see that support suddenly making a trip up the river...

GaleWinUnleashedJan 25, 20151 votes

I object to your assumption that the support is the only one that places non-trinket wards. We can only place 3, we need team cooperation to get proper vision. Just trinkets isn't enough every time.