Why malzahar's W costs 90/95/100/105/110 mana?

KONO RUBICK DA·Nov 9, 2015·2 votes·1,081 views

last time i checked, he can't spam it to push you under your tower nor poking with his W and oppressing the enemy laner.

{quoted}

It probably cost that much because late game it easily deals 75% max health damage over the duration, which is more damage than many ultimates.

He also has free mana for days from his E, and enough burst and lockdown from the rest of his kit to guarantee someone stays in his W the full duration.

he probably doesn't have this damage at lvl 1, try again

free mana? his E gives him 0 mana at lvl 1, and 36 mana at lvl 5 against a wave, assuming he only used his E to farm try again

33 Comments

IonianNov 9, 20156 votes

The mana costs on any of his abilities don't matter because his E gives him infinite free mana for 0 effort.

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-09T12:30:39.130+0000)

The mana costs on any of his abilities don't matter because his E gives him infinite free mana for 0 effort.

nop, his E can kill at a maximum 6 creeps which gives him 60 mana at level 1 if we count the cost of his E it doesn't give him anything, and that's if you don't use your Q or /W to farm and if you killed them all which is difficult with the dot. so you will need 3 wave to get back the mana you lost. and as a reminder you can't kill a creep with his E before level 8 or 9, in this case 6 creeps gives him 36 mana.

"infinity mana" Xerath gains more mana, and his W/E still costs less mana while the mana cost of his Q is here to not let him oppressing you

IonianNov 9, 20151 votes

Oh no only free 60 mana at level 1! Unplayable! Meanwhile there are champs with high early game mana costs AND no way to regen mana quickly Ahri

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T12:36:52.030+0000)

Oh no only free 60 mana at level 1! Unplayable! Meanwhile there are champs with high early game mana costs AND no way to regen mana quickly

are you retarded? it isn't a free 60 mana, IT IS NOTHING, he gains nothing in early game, do you know what means nothing? and he loses even more if he try to use his other spells

high mana costs on ahri? her W has 50 mana, her E and Q have both a high mana so she isn't a huge lane oppressor, all mages have this treatement, malzahar's E and Q both have a high mana cost else he would be spamming his Q on you non stop and his E to permapushing you under your tower at lvl 1.

IonianNov 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

his E to permapushing you under your tower at lvl 1.

m8 that is LITERALLY what malz does. The entire laning phase. Yeah foxfires costs 50 mana, also they do less damage than 1 autoattack at rank 1. Worth. Charm costs 25% of her total mana pool and realistically you're not even going to hit it if the enemy stays behind minions. There is a reason why Ahri is countered by champions who can push quickly and easily early, and that's because the mana-to-damage ratio on her rank 1/2/3 abilities is extremely poor.

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T12:50:22.919+0000)

m8 that is LITERALLY what malz does. The entire laning phase. Yeah foxfires costs 50 mana, also they do less damage than 1 autoattack at rank 1. Worth. Charm costs 25% of her total mana pool and realistically you're not even going to hit it if the enemy stays behind minions. There is a reason why Ahri is countered by champions who can push quickly and easily early, and that's because the mana-to-damage ratio on her rank 1/2/3 abilities is extremely poor.

no he doesn't, from level 1 to something like at least level 6 he can't permapush with his E, he can't poke with his Q because it does no damage costs too much mana and is easily dodged. His early mana costs are just retarded and doesn't allow him to rush AP like most mages.

IonianNov 9, 20151 votes

He doesn't use Q or W. He just pushes with E. Maybe in gold elo Malz players have a different plan, and that's why they're in gold. But in diamond, people actually know how to exploit weaknesses, and Ahri's main weakness early is not being able to counterpush. So Malz players just spam E. Ok?

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T13:10:19.069+0000)

He doesn't use Q or W. He just pushes with E. Maybe in gold elo Malz players have a different plan, and that's why they're in gold. But in diamond, people actually know how to exploit weaknesses, and Ahri's main weakness early is not being able to counterpush. So Malz players just spam E. Ok?

he spam E? doesn't use W? no reason to give him 90 mana at lvl 1 then

IonianNov 9, 20153 votes

%damage is pretty strong.

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=If Ahri Was Real,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-09T13:29:56.081+0000)

%damage is pretty strong.

no it isn't rofl, can not push the lane, can not poke can not oppress except if the enemy is retarded to stay in it

IonianNov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

if the enemy is retarded to stay in it

pretty sure malz ult helps you with that

Zone of EndlessNov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

no it isn't rofl, can not push the lane, can not poke can not oppress except if the enemy is retarded to stay in it

You're saying Mal doesn't have any other abilities that can root a person in place when you put the pool under them?

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're saying Mal doesn't have any other abilities that can root a person in place when you put the pool under them?

i'm talking about the early game, where he should be able to spam his W, why you people are so dumb my god.

Zone of EndlessNov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

i'm talking about the early game, where he should be able to spam his W, why you people are so dumb my god.

So you Malzahar to push lane even easier than right now? Can I ask Riot to buff Morg's W and Ziggs' Q then?

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

So you Malzahar to push lane even easier than right now? Can I ask Riot to buff Morg's W and Ziggs' Q then?

they can all push the lane after the lvl 4, and buffing his W mana cost won't help him to push the lane, it does a mediocre damage to creeps

BuzzinTateNov 9, 20151 votes

I've actually manages to tether it to two waves with a kill before, that gave me a lot of free mana and damage.

JbelsNov 9, 20153 votes

{quoted}

nop, his E can kill at a maximum 6 creeps which gives him 60 mana at level 1 if we count the cost of his E it doesn't give him anything, and that's if you don't use your Q or /W to farm and if you killed them all which is difficult with the dot. so you will need 3 wave to get back the mana you lost. and as a reminder you can't kill a creep with his E before level 8 or 9.

"infinity mana" gains more mana, and his W/E still costs less mana while the mana cost of his Q is here to not let him oppressing you

Don't forget the 4 mana from Doran's ring, so 84 mana per wave

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Don't forget the 4 mana from Doran's ring, so 84 mana per wave

no, because everyone has a doran's ring

3TWarriorNov 9, 20151 votes

his E also gives him free harass in lane, easier last hitting and combined with ignite, an almost sure-kill combo

his W however has a much higher mana cost because it deals a large percent damage and base damage while covering an area, so he can shove his lane and just as easily combine it with his R for maximum damage

ZephyrDrakeNov 9, 20152 votes

why the hell are you using his W to farm? you just need to press E on a minion that is about to die and then auto it and boom, free pushing! you use your Q to poke the enemy champion whenever possible and the only time you should be using your W is when you want to create a 'zone' when you are going to fight or when you are about to ult someone so they take that much more damage

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

why the hell are you using his W to farm? you just need to press E on a minion that is about to die and then auto it and boom, free pushing! you use your Q to poke the enemy champion whenever possible and the only time you should be using your W is when you want to create a 'zone' when you are going to fight or when you are about to ult someone so they take that much more damage

i wasn't even saying that i use W to farm, just realising that there are no reason for him to have this high mana cost (except on E and Q of course), his mana sustain is shit, it gives him nothing at level 1 and barrely 36 mana at lvl 5, so it isn' t an argument for "lol are you dumb? his W costs 100 mana because his E gives him mana"

ZephyrDrakeNov 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

i wasn't even saying that i use W to farm, just realising that there are no reason for him to have this high mana cost (except on E and Q of course), his mana sustain is shit, it gives him nothing at level 1 and barrely 36 mana at lvl 5, so it isn' t an argument for "lol are you dumb? his W costs 100 mana because his E gives him mana"

you shouldn't be using his W unless you plan on fight under it or when you are going to ult someone. You want to poke or wave clear faster? you have your Q for anything else? farm, harass... ANYTHING you have your E. You shouldn't even be trying to max your W before your E and Q are maxed and by that point mana shouldn't be an issue

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you shouldn't be using his W unless you plan on fight under it or when you are going to ult someone. You want to poke or wave clear faster? you have your Q for anything else? farm, harass... ANYTHING you have your E. You shouldn't even be trying to max your W before your E and Q are maxed and by that point mana shouldn't be an issue

if i should not use my W, that means it isn't op, that means it has 0 reason to have this cost

junglerboy16Nov 9, 20152 votes

It probably cost that much because late game it easily deals 75% max health damage over the duration, which is more damage than many ultimates.

He also has free mana for days from his E, and enough burst and lockdown from the rest of his kit to guarantee someone stays in his W the full duration.

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It probably cost that much because late game it easily deals 75% max health damage over the duration, which is more damage than many ultimates.

He also has free mana for days from his E, and enough burst and lockdown from the rest of his kit to guarantee someone stays in his W the full duration.

he probably doesn't have this damage at lvl 1, try again

free mana? his E gives him 0 mana at lvl 1, and 36 mana at lvl 5 against a wave, assuming he only used his E to farm try again

junglerboy16Nov 10, 20151 votes

At level one, the ability only costs 90 mana and deals 20% max health w/o ANY AP.

If you actually play the wave correctly, you should easily be able to use you E on the end of one wave and have it transition to the next, giving you a much higher amount of mana returned. Even if you tag only 8 minion kills with Malefic Visions per cast (very easy to do, even for a beginner) you restore 20-88 mana. Also, You should be able to farm a whole wave with only his E, and only occasionally should you use Q for wave clear. E should almost never be used solely for waveclear. Malzahar's biggest strength is in hard pushing the wave early and having really strong harass and trading before his level 6 all-in. E-ing the wave and auto-ing it down fast to pick up the vision jump/mana refund is one of the easiest ways to wave clear indefinitely.

GhastlyGhoulManNov 9, 20151 votes

Tbh I don't really use his W much in lane at all, it's mostly e to push the wave, and the occasional Q to harass. It's more once I have lvl 6 so I can pool and ult, and by then I still have enough mana, because E pretty much refunds its cost if you use it right.

So I guess what I'm saying is... I don't much mind the cost on it.

Meep ManNov 9, 20151 votes

Because the mana cost is probably one of the reasons he can't spam it. They want to to wait to use it till you can combo someone.

Plus it deals a LOT of damage potentially.

KONO RUBICK DANov 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o4vczI1K,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-09T14:56:21.895+0000)

Because the mana cost is probably one of the reasons he can't spam it. They want to to wait to use it till you can combo someone.

Plus it deals a LOT of damage potentially.

his W gives him nothing in early game, i mean how can someone with a brain get a lot of damage from your W? and how malzahar spaming W in the lane is going to make him broken?