Why do you get upset if I start Cull on a mage?

Disulfiram·Jul 18, 2018·5 votes·1,324 views

First of all it doesn't build into any AD item, so you have no reason to throw a fit over that.

Secondly, runes give a lot (and I mean, A LOT) of adaptive stats, and at level 1 even mages get more value off of AD than AP (better autoattack damage for trades/poking and easier last hitting). (Btw on the first back I'll likely buy some AP, which will morph that bonus AD from the adaptive stats into bonus AP) (As a mage I'm not an assassin, I'm not banking on a level 3 all-in, thus I don't need bonus AP that early and that badly)

Thirdly, I expect to hit 100 cs well before having to sell my starting item, and Cull happens to give a nice amount of free gold when that happens.

18 Comments

KhristophorosJul 18, 20184 votes

I'd expect you to lose lane because Cull has weak stats compared to Doran's Blade, and mages generally need the mana regen from Doran's Ring anyway. But I'd watch and see if I'm right instead of trash talking you.

DisulfiramJul 18, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I'd expect you to lose lane because Cull has weak stats compared to Doran's Blade,

I 95% will lose lane... cull is not what you start with when you're planning to go 15/0 in the first 10 minutes of a game; cull is what you start with when you expect you'll be spending most of your early game just farming.

and mages generally need the mana regen from Doran's Ring anyway.

They sure do; the plan when starting cull though is to farm mostly with autos instead of spells, which tends to save a lot of mana.

Also if you're up against something that can't be poked down (like Vladimir) or in a situation where you don't want to push (like an aggressive enemy jungler) then you won't be using spells much if at all, and this makes the regen from Doran's ring a wasted stat.

But I'd watch and see if I'm right instead of trash talking you.

Which at least is a step forward from what often happens <3

KhristophorosJul 18, 20183 votes

I 95% will lose lane...

And that makes this strategy a non-starter. If you can consistently go even on CS and not die it's fine but if you're consistently losing lane it's a really bad strategy.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20183 votes

Not really. Losing lane isnt bad if you get a better mid game group out of it. Losing lane is bad if the power shift sways too much.

KhristophorosJul 18, 20181 votes

You're not getting anything out of Cull when you lose lane. If you lose lane you lose so much gold and exp from being zoned/dead that Cull does not make up for it. If one of the Doran's Items could have helped you go even instead of losing lane it's WAY better than Cull. Another option for that would be Corrupting Potion.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20182 votes

Youre assuming a hard lane loss, which is unreasonable to assume. Dorans ring vs cull wont make you lose out on enough CS and die enough for the cull vs dring to matter. At most youd just miss out on potential kills.

KhristophorosJul 18, 20181 votes

Why is it unreasonable to assume that you will hard lose the lane when you start the game with 80 less health? Even as low as gold mmr I bet you'll get abused by many lane opponents for that.

Pika FoxJul 18, 20182 votes

80hp isnt a ton, usually if you die in lane youre overkilled by at least that. Plus most mages have a good range advantage, so you arent looking to let the other get in range to abuse you. And its not like vlad or zed or akali have the range to make you fight eartly, or even keep you at bay for long.

KlydeFrogJul 18, 20181 votes

Lol bro do the math you have to have over 100 ad to for the lifesteal on dorans to equal the life gain on cull

KhristophorosJul 18, 20181 votes

DBlade actually has health on it too. You're pretty much giving up 80 health and 1 AD for the gold gain. The lifesteal is insignificant either way.

KlydeFrogJul 18, 20181 votes

What ever you need to tell yourself. The new dorans ring isnt useful. Lose a better mana regen to gain a dorans shield passive.

KhristophorosJul 18, 20181 votes

I can't lane without the mana regen.

KlydeFrogJul 18, 20181 votes

The mana regen is crap. Its not what it used to be. Also here is one for you. Start starting dorans ring on varus and start w like you should. Boom more damage.

KhristophorosJul 18, 20181 votes

We've been over this back when everyone was crying about the mage mana changes. Between the base mana regen buff to mages and the changes to doran's ring you have the same mana regen as before except you don't lose it if you get zoned off the wave.

But anyway I was mostly talking about Cull leaving you vulnerable and abusable early which means you'll probably lose lane. If you don't like Doran's Ring that's fine but Doran's Blade and Doran's Shield are way better than Cull.

SukishooJul 18, 20182 votes

I've actually started cull on mages before and not lost lane. It just depends on the player and who they are facing I'd say.

KlydeFrogJul 18, 20183 votes

Lol ikr people used to tell me the same shyt when i started dorans ring on jhin. I figured out that was the best start on him period. Kill cs regen mana poke with q lose no damage i would say. Then someone in lcs does it and its not troll anymore lol. But sadly you dont gain mana back per cs kill :(