Normals are too competitive

Disulfiram·Aug 27, 2018·68 votes·18,645 views

Laughing at the shark maokai skin idea (it's awesome btw XD), I thought that Maokai sounds like a fun champion to try out. Then I thought "nah, i'd lose my lane horribly many times before learning what he can do". And then it hit me: why is that a problem? Why does it bother me, what is stopping me from trying a new champion in a normal game?

My team. I don't want to get flamed, don't want to be reported. I want to have fun, and getting insulted and yelled at for 15 minutes is not fun.

But then again... if it's just a normal game, why are you people that upset? Why does it bother you that much that I make bad plays, that I'm learning a new champ?

I'm not even talking theoretics here, it even really happened to me that someone, in a normal game, banned my champion because I wrote i was about to try him for the first time.

And I can't understand the reason. Why are you people so competitive in normal games? What could be done about this, in your opinion?

106 Comments

MarothennanAug 27, 201839 votes

people get upset because it feels like SHIT to get killed over and over by an enemy someone else fed

No flash no lifeAug 27, 201820 votes

{quoted}

people get upset because it feels like SHIT to get killed over and over by an enemy someone else fed

^Pretty much

In the past it wasn't this much of a problem, even if you don't know what you're doing and did a bad trade, you'd only lose 1/3 of your health. Your lane opponent would be ahead but not fed, and your team could still deal with it.

Now if you make a mistake you instantly die, and your opponent snowballs out of control.

SociopathFriendAug 27, 20185 votes

I have no idea when "In the past it wasn't this much a problem". Even way back in season 3 and so if someone became fed they would quickly demolish your entire team.

No flash no lifeAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I have no idea when "In the past it wasn't this much a problem". Even way back in season 3 and so if someone became fed they would quickly demolish your entire team.

They key word is "fed".

In the past your opponent doesn't become fed just from you testing out a new champ. You'll lose some health, but you don't just...die.

Now if you dare to test out a new champ in front of an actual player you immediately die and they become fed.

TheSingularityAug 28, 20185 votes

The rate at which they became fed was drastically slower. You'd have to run it down mid to mimic the snowball we have now

KídáAug 28, 20182 votes

exactly, then it feels like your just wasting your time.

Darth RodanAug 27, 20188 votes

If you don't play to win then play coop vs ai or don't play at all.

S0kaXAug 27, 201828 votes

And in what part did the OP say that he doesn't want to win?

In Borke VeritasAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

And in what part did the OP say that he doesn't want to win?

Not the OP, but you do see people die once or twice in normals and go "I don't care, it's normal" and proceed to just not try anymore. Even with no LP at stake, that kind of attitude is frustrating.

IgnisshadowAug 28, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darth Rodan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IeY80OVE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-27T18:45:00.728+0000)

If you don't play to win then play coop vs ai or don't play at all.

That attitude is one of the reasons why league is considered to be one of the most toxic competitive games out there.

Tomoe GozenAug 28, 20181 votes

No, that's actually the correct attitude to have and to also work with your teammates as much as you can. And since this isn't the default attitude, that's the reason why everyone thinks there's too much toxicity. In reality, people just love to antagonize each other for no other reason than just because they can and want to "stick it to the man", even if it meant them losing but would then turn 180 and complain on the boards that matchmaking sucks and that reports don't work.

Go figure.

GuzergusAug 28, 20183 votes

No, that's actually the correct attitude to have

Except for normals are not competitive. When I go ranked, I play to win and I expect others to do the same. In normals winning should not be a primary objective. People may test out new champs, new strategies, runes, etc. It's perfectly fine. Does it mean they should just run it down? No. Does it mean it's fine to give up or just run around doing sub-optimal things? Yes.

Tomoe GozenAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Except for normals are not competitive.

It's irrelevant if it's ranked or not. I'm still spending my time of the day to play a single game one way or another and being paired with a person who's throwing it intentionally isn't fun at all. I don't care how you like to have your fun but if you're clearly not trying to win a match, that's disrupting gameplay and you're breaking the Summoner's Code. That's a reportable offense, mind you.

Playing AP Darius/Draven is clearly trolling. I don't care if you reach 900 AP levels with him, the very fact that these specific champs don't scale from AP on a single ability is just asking to be killed over and over.

Likewise, playing full AD Darius is also problematic, even if you have a lead. You can't teamfight, you can't perform your champion's role. You're just a bag of gold if the game drags on and you don't know if your team will end the game before you become useless.

Sub-optimal builds are fine, unless you're going into the extremes.

Does it mean it's fine to give up or just run around doing sub-optimal things? Yes.

It's not fine to give up. That's a reportable offense. Unless your entire team agrees on this decision, you don't get to decide to throw in the towel early and go on suicide missions under enemy turrets, hoping to forcefully end the game early.

Unfortunately for you, it is my decision if i deem your performance in any given game unfun for me or not. That's a subjective matter, which means that what you find fun is definitely not in the same tolerance levels for every one of your teammates. You can fool around like this in bot games, not in regular games that you play against real players.

And if you give me that half-assed "bot games aren't fun", it really puts your actions into proper perspective because then you'll be admitting your way of playing the game is intentionally annoying your teammates, and you clearly knowing it. That's a reportable and bannable offense.

Remember "Support Nunu" and "Jungle Singed" cases. These players were punished because they played a certain way that didn't fit their roles and annoyed every one of their teammates in doing so.

GuzergusAug 28, 20182 votes

if you're clearly not trying to win a match

Define 'clearly' and then we can talk. Hint: you won't be able to do that.

Likewise, playing full AD Darius is also problematic

The moment someone tells me I cannot play a normal game building full AD one-shot Darius is the moment I tell them to fuck off. It's absolutely fine to build whatever non-standard stuff you want in normal.

As for AP Darius, I'd be interested to hear a reason for this build from the person doing it. If they genuinely think it might work (for whatever crazy reason), I'm cool with it.

is definitely not in the same tolerance levels for every one of your teammates.

That's exactly why this post was mode - to make this level higher and prevent people like you from bitching about 'oh no full ad darius in normal game'.

Remember "Support Nunu" and "Jungle Singed" cases.

I suspect singed was played in ranked. If that was normal, then my response is the same as for AD darius and other things.

And if you give me that half-assed "bot games aren't fun", it really puts your actions into proper perspective because then you'll be admitting your way of playing the game is intentionally annoying your teammates, and you clearly knowing it.

Bot games are not fun because I don't enjoy beating AI. It doesn't necessarily mean my way of playing is 'annoying'. How the hell would you come up to such a conclusion?

Tomoe GozenAug 29, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Define 'clearly' and then we can talk. Hint: you won't be able to do that.

I can define "clearly" pretty clearly. There are easily identifiable situations where you're CLEARLY trolling and wanting to make your team lose for some reason (like suiciding into towers, obviously feeding 0/16), and there are subtle situations where you're intentionally undermining your team's success in winning a match but that is mostly for individuals to figure out in what way you're destroying a match and submitting a proper report ticket.

TL:DR

If i think you're feeding, you're in all likelihood feeding. I'll explain what i mean in a point below.

The moment someone tells me I cannot play a normal game building full AD one-shot Darius is the moment I tell them to fuck off. It's absolutely fine to build whatever non-standard stuff you want in normal.

The moment i hear someone say "fuck off", that's the moment they get muted and reported for not playing with the team.

Here's the thing: i don't consider people to be stupid by default. If you're playing an intentionally suboptimal build that focuses on something impossible from a champion of your choice (playing a completely squishy Darius that has ZERO ways to engage a target first Or AP), then i'll report you for intentionally feeding.

If you are (god forbid) actually stupid, then i'll report you so that your MMR can drop down on a level more suitable to your skills. There's no real reason to pollute my games with your attitude, you can play with your peers and have fun that way. In any case, i'm satisfied with both options.

As for AP Darius, I'd be interested to hear a reason for this build from the person doing it. If they genuinely think it might work (for whatever crazy reason), I'm cool with it.

There's no reason AP Darius would work since he doesn't scale from a single ability... if i had to write you the most obvious explanation, you're clearly not the person who knows what they're doing in this game in terms of their builds.

That's exactly why this post was mode - to make this level higher and prevent people like you from bitching about 'oh no full ad darius in normal game'.

No idea what you wanted to point out here. League is by default a competitive game. As long as the objective of any game mode is to win, even normal games are competitive in nature. If you're whole schtick is "i can fool around in normals because they aren't "competitive"", you don't understand what the word means.

Non-ranked games (and also depending on the mode) should be less stressful sure but if you're always going to throw me an absolute shit covered curveball like "MS Shen boiii, don't care if i win or lose", you deserve each report that's sent against you. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to put up with your "gameplay".

I suspect singed was played in ranked. If that was normal, then my response is the same as for AD darius and other things.

It was Ranked but that was partially the reason. The real reason is that their teammates were reporting them in majority of their games, consecutively. This wasn't a punishment from an automated system, Riot had to manually review the reports people were sending enmasse.

GuzergusAug 29, 20181 votes

The moment i hear someone say "fuck off", that's the moment they get muted and reported for not playing with the team.

You cannot extrapolate your own attitude towards particular build on the whole team and blatantly say it's not playing with 'the team'.

Here's the thing: i don't consider people to be stupid by default. If you're playing an intentionally suboptimal build that focuses on something impossible from a champion of your choice (playing a completely squishy Darius that has ZERO ways to engage a target first Or AP), then i'll report you for intentionally feeding.

There is nothing in your description which is even remotely close to intentional feeding. Elaborate on how a fun build is intentional feeding. It's obviously not optimal, but the game guidelines never stated you should play as optimal as possible.
People are stupid by default and play in sub-optimal ways 99% of the time. Statistically I play better than 99% of league community and I still make the stupidest mistakes from time to time. Do you want to report the entire 99% of the playerbase for making mistakes? I doubt it.

If you are (god forbid) actually stupid, then i'll report you so that your MMR can drop down

Is there any proof that reporting works like that? Also, is there a valid reason for such a report? Int. feeding isn't one and unskilled player is no longer valid.

Non-ranked games (and also depending on the mode) should be less stressful sure but if you're always going to throw me an absolute shit covered curveball like "MS Shen boiii, don't care if i win or lose", you deserve each report that's sent against you.

Nobody said MS Shen player doesn't care about winning and isn't trying their best. You're imagining things.

The real reason is that their teammates were reporting them in majority of their games, consecutively.

And, once again, that's exactly the point of OP. To spread awareness so that people do not do such things in normal games.

If you're whole schtick is "i can fool around in normals because they aren't "competitive"", you don't understand what the word means.

There is a reason we have ranked and normal queues. You seem to continue living in the black-and-white world where all modes are equally competitive; they are not.

Let's play a little modelling game. I'll start with basic theses.

There is a percentage of playerbase who wants to have fun, e.g. try sub-optimal builds, fighting enemies instead of taking objectives, etc. They're clearly doing the things which are not the best for the win. Furthermore, this percentage isn't fixed, i.e. one day I want to try hard and the other I want to fool around.
Let's assume normals are extremely competitive and so called 'MS Shen' things are clearly not an option.

Now, the question is, is there another 5x5 summoner's rift game mode which would allow players to play MS Shen and have fun? There is not. You could argue that 5x5 SR is by itself not a place for 'MS Shen', but that's hardly an argument and there is no evidence from Riot that the whole SR was intended to be like that.

Therefore, my next question is, why is our model so messed up that a portion of the playerbase has no option to play the SR game while the competitive portion actually has three of modes to choose from? Why don't we allow the fun portion of the playerbase play normals and competitive play rankeds instead?

Also, since you're a competitive guy, I'd love to know how much ranked you play in comparison to normals. If you don't play ranked, please explain why you don't. That would be very interesting to read.

Tomoe GozenAug 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You cannot extrapolate your own attitude towards particular build on the whole team and blatantly say it's not playing with 'the team'.

I can. If you're playing suboptimally and playing like crap, then you being told what to do to avoid any more unnecessary deaths and you refuse, lash out or ignore everything and continue doing it, you're feeding. I'm sorry if this offends you but i'm not obligated to take your stupidity (intentional or not) at face value and disregard it as an honest mistake.

There are always ways for me to test in very few words, whether that particular player is really trying to win or not. And depending on their answers (which are most of the time usually negative, without me actually blaming them for anything), it always ends up with a mute and report at the end.

There is nothing in your description which is even remotely close to intentional feeding. Elaborate on how a fun build is intentional feeding.

There are many subtle ways of inting. No one is actually stupid enough to go full tyler1 and make it that obvious. One subtle way is where you go with a "fun" build, contribute nothing to your team, you refuse to take actions to stop bleeding gold and making the enemy team stronger.

That is just one way i consider "not playing with the team" and easily categorized under "feeding", with a proper explanation in the comment section of the report card.

People are stupid by default and play in sub-optimal ways 99% of the time. Statistically I play better than 99% of league community and I still make the stupidest mistakes from time to time.

When i say "optimally", that means "according to the meta". The vast majority of people play according to the meta because they want to win. It's a simple as that. I'm in no way equating them to pros and their near perfect (optimal) gameplay.

I can understand some deviation in the meta builds because no game is the exact same as your previous one but going (for example) a full lethality Olaf against clearly ranged carry threats on the enemy team, you're bound to end up useless in the mid game. When an enemy ranged carry even looks at you funny but has the ability to initiate and burst you before you get a chance to get to them, at that point you become useless and your team is fighting a 4v5 game.

If was your choice to play like this and now you'll bear the consequences of such a loss. It was your poor judgement that got you into that situation so the only thing left for you is to own up to it and not blame someone else.

Is there any proof that reporting works like that? Also, is there a valid reason for such a report? Int. feeding isn't one and unskilled player is no longer valid.

When's the last time you reported a person? There's an "intentionally feeding" checkbox and you'd be surprised how much of " non-reportable" offences can be categorized as inting - even unskilled players.

I never send empty comments on report cards so even if i'm reporting inting, i'm going to elaborate shortly why i think that is. And there's no reason for me to lie about the situation, i'm only in charge of reporting a player i think was doing something wrong, it's on Riot whether they take action against them or not.

Nobody said MS Shen player doesn't care about winning and isn't trying their best. You're imagining things.

Let me get something very clear, since you don't understand one very basic premise of League: if you're playing something "fun" for you but completely unviable and disfunctional for your team (a build that doesn't appeal to any of your champion's strengths), you are not trying to win that game of League.

Your actions have consequences and if you do this, i am not interested in your input regarding your obviously stupid build. That's an auto report (and mute), if you decide to be overly eager to "debate" the issue in the middle of the game. I'm not interested in that one bit.

That is, if i actually allow myself to go into a game with a player like that so that i can lose it but only get the satisfaction of reporting the troll afterwards. I'd rather dodge and wait 5/15 minutes instead of committing to the same 15+ minutes loss anyway.

And, once again, that's exactly the point of OP. To spread awareness so that people do not do such things in normal games.

Spread awareness of what exactly? Not using the report system to report clearly out of line behavior that isn't automatically detected because these are special cases?

The majority of their teammates have reported these two. So what you're telling me that the majority of people were just wrong and these two were right because they were special? They played differently and even at the expense of their entire teams so they're excused?

As i've said before, some experimentation is fine but trying to redefine a role with a champion that's not even being played in that role and expecting everyone else to just follow along, is beyond stupid.

I don't care if it was Faker doing this. I don't care if it was Marc Merrill. If he doesn't bother to explain his train of thought to me, if he doesn't even clue me in on what he's trying to do and he just abandons my ass in order to do it, that's on him.

There is a reason we have ranked and normal queues. You seem to continue living in the black-and-white world where all modes are equally competitive; they are not.

I've already explained both queues, you just didn't quote that.

Now, the question is, is there another 5x5 summoner's rift game mode which would allow players to play MS Shen and have fun? There is not. You could argue that 5x5 SR is by itself not a place for 'MS Shen', but that's hardly an argument and there is no evidence from Riot that the whole SR was intended to be like that.

You can't expect that every item be viable in any combination on any champion. League wasn't designed like that. If you want to try a MS build, Hecarim is more viable in that regard. You can't play Ultimate Bravery in every game, be it ranked or normal.

IgnisshadowAug 29, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IeY80OVE,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2018-08-28T17:51:41.876+0000)

No, that's actually the correct attitude to have and to also work with your teammates as much as you can. And since this isn't the default attitude, that's the reason why everyone thinks there's too much toxicity. In reality, people just love to antagonize each other for no other reason than just because they can and want to "stick it to the man", even if it meant them losing but would then turn 180 and complain on the boards that matchmaking sucks and that reports don't work.

Go figure.

Normal games are not meant to be competitive.- that is why we have three ranked queues. Playing against AI when it comes to learning a new champ is recommended, yes, but there is only so much you can do against beginner/intermediate bots. Plus the AI is outdated and buggy as hell. Toxicity in the game is an entirely different matter we can discuss. I've been playing on and off since season 2, and have only really been playing the game since season 5, but I can tell you that the attitudes, passive aggressiveness, and toxic behaviors in this game have gotten worse over time. You see it on stream in higher elo games (where even challenger elo streamers like QT, Shiphtur, Dom, etc. have noticed that it has gotten worse).

4 Step CadenceAug 27, 20187 votes

You should always try a champion in bots or practice before taking them into PvP to get a basic concept how how they work, ect. No one like a teammate that has no idea what they are doing, because good people will sit there and try to help you instead of playing and assholes will sit there and flame you. While its not fair that your teammates ban your pick because its your first time playing that champ, its also not fair to them for you to go in completely bind and risk throwing the game out the window. Some people, like myself, can learn a new champion quickly and have no issue playing them with only one or two games of practice before hand. Some aren't though, and your teammates don't know what kind of person you are. If you want to go in blind, that's fine, but don't say anything about it in champ select so they don't ban your pick.

GuzergusAug 27, 201813 votes

You should always try a champion in bots or practice before taking them into PvP to get a basic concept how how they work, ect

If I were to try a new champion, I'd go straight to normals. Skills are usually (I'd even say always) pretty straightforward and reading them is enough. Laning, builds and other things can't be learned from games vs bots at all. For a new champion to main, I usually go 2-3 normals, then around 10-15 flex games and then solo queue, which I focus on.

NonicAug 27, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If I were to try a new champion, I'd go straight to normals. Skills are usually (I'd even say always) pretty straightforward and reading them is enough. Laning, builds and other things can't be learned from games vs bots at all. For a new champion to main, I usually go 2-3 normals, then around 10-15 flex games and then solo queue, which I focus on.

I want to develop into a better player, not pro, but good enough to be helpful. At the moment I only play Co-op vs AI because I just don't learn or gain meaningful experience from Normals. Co-op vs AI is great to learn to use your champions skills, coordinate them, ect. but beyond that doesn't teach you how to play against a live player. A player may even begin to form bad habits by playing against AI too much.

SociopathFriendAug 27, 20189 votes

I'm just going to point out I had multiple friends who played against Bots until they were level 15 because they were so afraid of "Not knowing how to play" that their teams would jump them.

Both of them were, as you might expect, completely useless in Normals because Bots teach you practically nothing.

RumkattenAug 27, 20186 votes

Heres a theory: To many players, ranked has become to much of a struggle and way way way way to toxic. I think a lot of people are sick of getting told over and over that you are garbage if you belong to the 90% players that are bronze/silver, and ranked just stopped to matter. Therefore many people are as serious about normals as about ranked. Hence they want to win and they dont want to struggle with teammates that are clueless.

3TWarriorAug 28, 20181 votes

well, that and normals don't have placements or use the same matchmaking, so you don't get held back in "rank" which is only mmr, so effectively, players you play against only continue to get better compared to your own skill instead of being averaged

RumkattenAug 28, 20182 votes

{quoted}

well, that and normals don't have placements or use the same matchmaking, so you don't get held back in "rank" which is only mmr, so effectively, players you play against only continue to get better compared to your own skill instead of being averaged

This can be totally individual, but for me, I generally get much better teams in normal. 9/10 normals are people working togheter to play League, you can talk people out of tilt, I very rarely have people going 0/25/0 etc etc. In ranked matches people are angry and bad in the sense that they refuse to play as a team. I really want to rank up, but its so hard to motivate myself to play ranked when normals are fun and ranked are garbage.

Tahminatrix Aug 27, 20186 votes

Because people think they can only get their first win of the day from playing normals.

VztahAug 27, 20186 votes

I'm hella competitive but I'm not flame/report happy unless you're deliberately hindering unit cohesion throughout the course of the game and talking shit to others then I'm down to report.

Why are they competitive? They want to learn, improve, and win on a game they spend time on (otherwise why would they play.)

What could be done?

I don't know man but it's not like we're the reason these people are unhappy and there ain't much ado about it besides confronting them, muting them, or reporting if not all of the above for the respective conflict or harm they cause. I'm not a therapist and I don't play so I can listen/see whoever whine/cry/whatever. If anything I wish there was an option to mute team chat because people deliberately try to break your heart and shit on it over nothing (more often than not) which is not fun at all besides it doesn't really matter because all that seems to be typed is shit talking (if it's not on you it's about someone else or the enemy team) and you still got pings that are effective enough for communication.

Edit: I'm talking show team chat in options right next to show all chat...if R6S and other games can have this kind of QoL option why can't League?

LuxxumAug 28, 20186 votes

Tell me about it. I decided to pick up league again after a multi-month hiatus, after watching a stream and having lethality jinx mid whisper me some sweet nothings, and of the seven times I hit the play button, I had a teammate intentionally ban my pick twice, a teammate dodge over my pick once, and got flamed for trolling (I wasn't) twice.

Y'all muthafuckas need to chill. If you wanna tryhard, the ranked button is right there. Leave my silver elo norms out of it.

Elkington VIAug 27, 20185 votes

It's too bad we don't have a game mode where we can just hop on and play anymore, with any champ we want.

BobaFlautistAug 27, 20184 votes

For what it's worth, it does get easier as you learn more champions. I remember when I was basically in the same place you were, feeling stuck on my mains, but as your champion pool deepens it gets way easier to learn each new one - you have more experience with the variety and playstyles.

And you can always start with a couple of bot games to get a feel for the kit.

ZtokaAug 27, 20183 votes

Not only that, matchmaking is total garbage. It's hard for a bronze to "learn" when matched up against a diamond. They just get destroyed over and over again. Riot needs to figure something out to make normals more evenly matched, otherwise folks will keep doing what they are doing now, using ranked to learn because that's the only consistent way to get a somewhat balanced competition. While ranked isn't perfect, matchmaking far better than normals..

DiamondSeedAug 27, 20183 votes

Do you play rock-paper-scissors to have fun and test a strategy out, or do you play it to win? If it is the former, there are plenty of individual games where the objective is to have fun. However, the moment you incorporate another player, it becomes a competition. This is innate in our behavior.

In my case, when I play normals I play to practice my champion without it affecting my ranked LP. I play to win, nothing else. If I want to have "fun", as you say, then I log off League and play a game that doesn't affect another individual. You want to play Maokai versus a different champion. What is the point of playing versus an actual person as opposed to just beating up the test dummy. You want a challenge, you want to struggle, and ultimately you want to persevere and come out on top. This is the truth, everything that breathes is competitive in every way possible. If you aren't then there is something wrong with your psyche.

Edit: When I say breathes, I mean anything that reproduces. I used breathes as a general term.

WimbledofyAug 28, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Do you play rock-paper-scissors to have fun and test a strategy out, or do you play it to win? If it is the former, there are plenty of individual games where the objective is to have fun. However, the moment you incorporate another player, it becomes a competition. This is innate in our behavior.

In my case, when I play normals I play to practice my champion without it affecting my ranked LP. I play to win, nothing else. If I want to have "fun", as you say, then I log off League and play a game that doesn't affect another individual. You want to play Maokai versus a different champion. What is the point of playing versus an actual person as opposed to just beating up the test dummy. You want a challenge, you want to struggle, and ultimately you want to persevere and come out on top. This is the truth, everything that breathes is competitive in every way possible. If you aren't then there is something wrong with your psyche.

Edit: When I say breathes, I mean anything that reproduces. I used breathes as a general term.

rock paper scissors? You play rock paper scissors either for fun or to make a decision like who goes first. Do people not play sports for fun? If you are playing to win, you join a league, which is the equivalent of ranked.

Sp33d Zer0Aug 29, 20182 votes

No. My backyard foozeball team is super hyper competitive. Nothing is allowed to be fun with 2 people.

JellyFairAug 28, 20183 votes

Probably because the most part of who plays lol is very competitive, but not everyone wants to play ranked, so they approach normals like ranked

RequiemsfireAug 28, 20183 votes

What's new? It doesn't matter if its ranked or not ranked, people hate losing, people hate setting up a match for victory only to have it all thrown away, its simply frustrating and this isn't something that's going to change anytime soon for any game mode.

Rant AwayAug 27, 20182 votes

Bots let you learn how to utilize a kit, but they also teach you how to only play against bots. i.e. abusin knowledge of how bots work/react and just farming kills in tribrush behind their turret as they face check over and over.

Dope SoloAug 28, 20182 votes

Because no one wants to spend 15-30 mins losing in champ select. I think playing a new char in normals is fine, you just might want to warn your teammates ahead of time.

Jerry SeinfeIdAug 28, 20182 votes

I genuinly don't care if you're feeding until the 5/0 yi suddenly comes to my lane and my fun is over. And don't start spamming my items at that point.

Here's a tip tho. Don't say it's your first time until the game starts. Don't write a paragraph about how you just wanna have fun and try this champ, just play it.

rtbf76109271Aug 28, 20182 votes

I have thought this since I started playing. They need a "low mastery" / "new to the champion" matchmaker. Your matchmaking pool is limited to champions with less than some mastery score or number of game on, but ALSO matches you based on your MMR in ranked.

Everyone's on something new to them, everyone's (in theory) at a similar level of skill

RyusaetherAug 28, 20182 votes

Last time me and my friend played a normal where he went "burst poppy" with stormrazor duskblade and I went with Ghost Youmuu Darius. I stomped lane he won jgl and was something like 7/2.

Our 0/4 Syndra lost lane to Veigar and started ping spamming our items and was annoying all game.

It's a normal, why do people care that much? I mean, I can understand you want to use normals to train and win, but you gotta accept others want to just have fun and test things there, I do so when I'm the one who wants to win.

Tomoe GozenAug 28, 20182 votes

No one likes to lose a game, especially if it feels like someone has thrown the towel early on purpose. Darius and Poppy are just terrible when played with pure damage in mind because they have 0 abilities in their kits to support squishy builds.

It doesn't matter if it's a normal game or not. If it's a pointless loss because you're trying something wild that won't work in the long run, it feels like you wasted 20+ minutes of everyone's time and they have to queue up for more games in order to get FWotD - the time they might not want to spend that day. So your "fun" ends up dictating how much time they have to sink in League because to you, screwing around was just another way to have fun.

RyusaetherAug 29, 20181 votes

He wasted my time feeding veigar and going beyond 0/4 in lane. I built youmuu as 5th item, the rest was core build. And we were both destroying everyone besides veigar. We literally spawnkilled them in base till veigar started wrecking havoc.

This is just blatantly toxic. So if I lose a normal because someone did something wrong, I should flame them because I didn't get my first win of the day. That's just pathetic beyond reason. It's normals, if someone wants to test things you can't come and tell them what's right and wrong. You shouldn't do that in ranked either, but at least there is kinda understandable.

Behaving like this in a GAME, that's supposed to be FUN, to relax you, is just boring and toxic for everyone.

Besides, by your logic: if someone's idea of fun is to win a game, and mine is to actually have fun testing things etc., why should I sacrifice my fun for others'? This just doesn't make sense. You do what you can to achieve your fun. Maybe if he played better we could've both had fun out ways.

People needs to stop crying over a game in every single way they play it. Then you see threads "I quit" "league is dying". It that's your attitude, I can see why.

(I'm referring to generic audience by saying "you", not you in particular).

Tomoe GozenAug 29, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Besides, by your logic: if someone's idea of fun is to win a game, and mine is to actually have fun testing things etc., why should I sacrifice my fun for others'?

It makes perfect sense. You don't get to decide on a brand new direction of playing the game and going against the grain of every player you encounter because that's how you like to have your fun. There's the default attitude, there's the middle ground where you still make a compromise and there's that "i will somehow win by feeding every match".

If you like being the contrarian for the sake of proving a point, there's no more right or wrong. There's only wrong and you're doing the wrong thing by forcing people to play by your rules. They are stuck with your ass for at least 15 minutes and even if that match ends up in your favor, that victory is going to be a hollow one if 4 people from your team just end up being pissed off because you didn't do anything they expected of you.

Let me remind you that Support Nunu and Singed were those whacky "out of bounds" styles that were punished PARTIALLY because these players did this in Ranked games BUT the majority of their teammates reported overall 0 satisfaction when being teamed up with them. They knew they were pissing people off and they continued doing so in dozens or hundreds of their games.

You can't force people to play by your rules because you want to play the game how you want to play it. The whole point of a community is to follow the rules set by it. If you're intentionally breaking every rule, expect to be cast out really fast. Not by Riot but by us. Riot is merely executing the sentence.

RyusaetherAug 29, 20182 votes

Except there are no rules that say "you have to build X Y and Z if you want to olay this champion in normal or you are ruining everyone's experience.

Your argument makes nunu's ult sense (Absolute Zero ecsdee).

I was not "winning by feeding". I won my lane, snowballed and tried to help others, and then I built 1 fucking different item from core build, being Youmuu. I can't see where I'm worse than a syndra losing to fucking Veigar and typing "I lost because it's Veigar", yeah, the super Lane Bully Veigar, and complaining ALL GAME because Poppy jgl went for an unusual and probably suboptimal build (while still winning jgl and performing good ganks).

We were by no means inting, just trying to win our way. And our ADC was perfectly fine with that and our support was always there supporting our actions and engages.

It was ME being stuck with that sore loser who rants in normals while I tried to carry his ass MY WAY. Not the opposite.

And if I can't force people to play by my rules (which I don't, my build affects me way more than them), why should they be allowed to force me to play by theirs? Again, your point just doesn't work.

"Cast out" for building a Youmuu on Darius in normal. Ok buddy. I think some of you guys need to take a break from this game or change their perspective and values. Or even better, play just ranked and don't annoy people in normals.

Tomoe GozenAug 30, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Except there are no rules that say "you have to build X Y and Z if you want to play this champion in normal or you are ruining everyone's experience.

Yea, there are rules. They're called default builds, champion roles and the overall meta. And the meta exists because many, many players have tried and tested those champions long before you, until the variations and experimentations homogenized to form their default build paths, consistent with their role.

This doesn't meant that blindly following the meta every time is the right call, there certainly are deviations and some experimentation is a given, knowing full well that no game is exactly the same. But there will never be a game where you'll be expected to, let's say, build AP on Darius (something completely opposite to what he is supposed to represent).

And if I can't force people to play by my rules (which I don't, my build affects me way more than them), why should they be allowed to force me to play by theirs? Again, your point just doesn't work.

My point still works (and will always work) because of something called societal expectations. You, as a part of the League community, are expected to know your champion or role of choice, to know builds and lane interactions, to know ins and outs of how a game of League is being played, how to teamfight, how to lane, how to contest objectives, gank, close out the game, etc.

Everyone, even the people who don't specifically play the lane or champion you've chosen, already know at least the bare minimum of how to "play" your champion and what to expect of them. And you have to meet these expectations. Likewise, you have your own expectations of others who've gotten other lanes/chosen different champions and you know what to expect of them - not from their players specifically.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Even if you're right, forcing people to play by your rules is still unacceptable, when you look at the bigger picture. If you're trying to "break the meta", then the expectation from you is to perform better than expected or at least marginally neutral or else your way of playing will be looked down upon and categorized as "trolling".

Keep in mind that i've only criticized way out of line sub-optimal builds that are far likely to lose more than they will win. I'm not defending Syndra's actions nor am i condemning yours. She's in the wrong if she lost the lane and then flamed everyone for the loss, you buying a Youumu's (i am assuming the rest of the build was proper Juggernaut itemization) isn't the issue here.

Poppy was also in the wrong since her expected role is to tank and if she went full AD, that option was immediately thrown out of the door once Veigar was even moderately fed. Poppy is expected to initiate fights and if she can't even take some damage before dying, she can have instant kill damage but if she dies before she can deal it, it was a waste of gold.

Quiet DudeAug 28, 20182 votes

Bro I just made that topic in GD and I'm getting downvotes for it. Some folks just get super mad in normals games. They tie their self esteem to how well they do in a video game.