Riot Scruffy - "Lee Sin will be nerfed if he continues to dominate."

InSingedWeTrust·Feb 19, 2015·24 votes·1,707 views

You think they'll honor this?

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/RZYdphd8-why-do-reds-ignore-every-lee-sin-thread?comment=001b00000000

36 Comments

Kowe The EwokFeb 19, 201512 votes

Lee Sin has been dominating ever since his release....

The "If he continues..." is pretty pointless....

MrPerson10Feb 19, 201511 votes

Probably not. Lee's the "cash cow" of League, gotta have them LC$ plays.

LoLKiruFeb 19, 20152 votes

Gonna be honest, as good as he is at making them. Theres many other champions who can make LC$BIGPLAY$ (on a side note, whenever I DO see Lee in the LCS; he doesn't usually get anything especially of note done, I rarely see anything crazy like insec)

That said, Lee could probably stand to lose some of his damage, or at the very least an increase on some cooldowns (60 second CD on dragonstrike late game? Really?)

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20151 votes

His ult CD is, admittedly, absolutely ridiculous. His potential for those big plays is huge, and as we see mentioned here by a Riot employee:

{quoted}

Feels to me like it is near consensus on the fact that Lee's defining element is his mobility, and the unique plays (kicks, dragon steals etc) that he can make with it.

This is the thing to play up on Lee where things like straight up fighting power for right clicking enemies isn't what makes him cool.

And I couldn't put it better than this;

He's fun as hell with a high skill cap and lots of depth to his play (love this)

Though my problems are exactly here with him;

Free Lifesteal and Spell vamp

TOO much utility (shield, slow, reveal, knockup) one of these has got to go.
Manaless. Pays 0 cost for missed skillshots. Has many "get out of jail" free cards due to his mobility.
Extremely high base damage abilities. This allows for him to build full tank and still be extremely useful due to the utility he brings.

LoLKiruFeb 19, 20154 votes

{quoted}

His ult CD is, admittedly, absolutely ridiculous. His potential for those big plays is huge, and as we see mentioned here by a Riot employee:

And I couldn't put it better than this;

Though my problems are exactly here with him; 2) TOO much utility (shield, slow, reveal, knockup) one of these has got to go. 3) Manaless. Pays 0 cost for missed skillshots. Has many "get out of jail" free cards due to his mobility. 4) Extremely high base damage abilities. This allows for him to build full tank and still be extremely useful due to the utility he brings.

I've played Lee a few times, his mobility is admittedly rather fun, so I'd rather he kept it (it seems to be his defining trait anyway)

Tone down his bases a bit, and maybe remove some of his utility (why does he need true sight on his E?), the spell vamp he has seems pretty out of place too.

MrPerson10Feb 19, 20151 votes

I feel like having all of the utility he does, insane base damage, low CDs, zero mana cost, and his extreme mobility combined with even just a item 3143 and a single jungle item gives him way too much in his kit to his advantage.

His mobility is definitely what makes him fun, but you literally cannot catch a Lee out of position one on one

straight4freeFeb 19, 20155 votes

Of course not. Why would they? They make more money when Lee is OP.

RaptameiFeb 19, 20154 votes

The community wants him nerfed, so Riot should nerf him. Customer is king.

BakedLotionFeb 19, 20154 votes

They'll nerf him alright.

Shield size lowered by 1 hp Slow lowered by .01 seconds Ult Cd raised by 5 seconds.

That's probably all they'd do to him.

FistOfSharkieshaFeb 20, 20151 votes

Probably something even less relevant. Think Zed's tiny AS reduction when he was OP for his waveclear, manaless, 100-0 capabilities and safety. Maybe Lee Sin will have .01% less HP regen.

InSingedWeTrustFeb 19, 20153 votes

Tick tock.

xLegendary TrollFeb 19, 20152 votes

Lee Sin never was "dominating". Yeah he's viable, but not dominant.

InSingedWeTrustFeb 19, 201511 votes

[{quoted}](name=xLegendary Troll,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nuV66kU9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-02-19T03:30:02.125+0000)

Lee Sin never was "dominating". Yeah he's viable, but not dominant.

They're nerfed a pletora of champions for reasons that apply to the Freelo Monk, it's his turn.

JefftiffyFeb 19, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Just In Heim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nuV66kU9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-02-19T03:32:52.131+0000)

They're nerfed a pletora of champions for reasons that apply to the Freelo Monk, it's his turn.

Except all of them don't fall off nearly as hard as he does. His late game is reliant on a good ult in a tighly clustered poor coordinated enemy team.

Also Lee has maintained a 44-7% WR for a long time and his ban rate has never surpassed most of the champions deemed too strong. When J4 and Nidalee have a surplus of 50% ban rates I think there is a reason he is ignored. Lee has a 3% ban rate. To give you a hint of just what this means. Riven has a 16% ban rate, Vi has a 22% ban rate. Which means even though he is deemed strong by the community. He is not top tier. He just is very versatile.

Sure his pick rate is 25%, but a lot of champs have hovered at 25% and higher. Caitlyn has always had a high pick rate, same with Vi, as well as Thresh. "But both of them were nerfed". Doesn't explain why they still have high pick rates now. Sometimes the more versatile picks will be picked more often because versatility is valued. League doesn't have many specialists. League is a game of generalists and that is the innate problem.

And for the people saying he has low costs. Thats only if you let him AA you. When he AAs is your opportunity to retaliate because that is his weak point, he is just trying to get more energy to cast more because he is an AD caster. If he Ws and doesn't AA most of his energy is gone. If he doesn't AA at all he can only use 2 abilities in a rotation without his ult.

WhereTheNamesAtFeb 19, 20152 votes

He won't get nerfed because he isn't dominating...

Ulquiorra995Feb 19, 20152 votes

-2 months ago

Considering they let him dominate for 4 seasons straight, why stop now?

SaevumFeb 19, 20151 votes

The comment is real? and is being down voted? - lol @ the community.

Troy242621Feb 19, 20151 votes

Sure they will, then they'll give him a compensation buff to go with it that is a net buff.

Envy SinFeb 20, 20151 votes

And no like the Veigar "compensation buff" He will end up getting a real one.

Colgate GatorFeb 19, 20151 votes

I'll be honest, I haven't seen him in my rankeds lately, also J4 is the new ban-to-go.

bradFeb 19, 20151 votes

hes been dominating since before that thread was created

meanwhile jarvan

R I fucking P

junglerboy16Feb 19, 20151 votes

In what world is he dominating right now? I almost always beat a Lee when I'm playing against one, and I hardly even see him anymore in the first place.

GummyBearWookieeFeb 19, 20151 votes

Considering he's not dominating anything and has less than a 50% win rate...this isn't happening.

FarRockBFFeb 19, 20151 votes

As anyone who understand balance knows; he is not OP just unfun to play against. So he will not "continue to dominate" because dominate = win and he has a poor win rate. He will not be nerfed. People want a CHANGE not a NERF. He's just telling people what they want to hear.

CanastusFeb 19, 20151 votes

When will we finally see some nerfs to this everlasting menace?

Solidair3Feb 19, 20151 votes

I just wish the warrior enchant didn't exist..

InSingedWeTrustFeb 19, 20151 votes

;]

KING OF MASKSFeb 19, 20151 votes

A post from two months ago, huh? Doubtful.

Tin TarantinoFeb 19, 20151 votes

They absolutely will, one place they could potentially hit him is in his energy costs, making ward hopping or dueling only with spells a lot less effective. If Lee ran out of energy in 2-3 casts for example he would still be able to make those insec plays but making him much more reliant on using his passive to restore energy in sustained fights.

Yandere CarryFeb 19, 20151 votes

lee sin isnt dominating at the moment, so I assume this means agreement honored

Syn ZykanFeb 20, 20151 votes

Here is how you fix him in my opinion.

Lower base damages and higher scaling on his Q, E, and R.

I like being able to damage when playing Lee, and there are people who build him to function similar to an assassin rather than just a utility tank. Let the people who want to play him in the assassin style continue to do so while lowering his tanky builds damage so he is forced into 1 of the roles rather than being able to functionally execute both at mid game

Remove his free spell vamp but keep the lifesteal on his W

He should not get to shield, and then Spell vamp from smite. His sustain is a little ridiculous in the jungle and removing the extra heal from SV + Smite would help tone that down a little and perhaps force him to back before he can attempt to gank.

The % missing hp execute on his Q should be the exact opposite. Have it do damage based on the targets current HP so he is more inclined to use it as his opener instead of just ward hopping to gap close, comboing and then using Q at point blank range for its damage.
Energy cost on Q needs to be raised, and he should get refunded a small amount only if he follows up with the second part of Q

Remember this is my opinion on how you could tone him down without really hitting his mobility (which as has been stated is his defining factor...as if that is unique anymore)

I Am FlorgFeb 20, 20152 votes

His Q already has a 180% bonus AD ratio and his ult is 200% those are already among the highest in the game.

Syn ZykanFeb 20, 20151 votes

I am talking like extremely lowering the base damages and barely giving any scaling to him. Yes he has some of the highest scalings already, but he also can't 100-0 you like a Riven or Zed. I am talking about giving him about the same damage he has right now if you were to build him full damage but almost completely gutting the bases, so if he builds tanky he loses out on a lot of it.

BetaDude40Feb 20, 20151 votes

The problem many people have is Lee can build like one damage item and then build tanky and his ratios will be powerful enough to still let him do insane damage. I kinda think it should be the other way around, low ratios with higher base damage, that way there is more of a choice required between tank or damage.

InSingedWeTrustFeb 20, 20151 votes

bump

InSingedWeTrustFeb 22, 20151 votes

We summon thee, Scruffy.