Why doesn't Elise's ult reset if she lands a cocoon?

InSingedWeTrust·May 27, 2015·184 votes·5,306 views

After playing Nidalee and her smooth transition between forms midfight, Elise feels so... clunky I guess would be the word.

65 Comments

darkdillMay 27, 201537 votes

This would be an excellent way to give Elise an extra trick, without being a hugely powerful buff. It just improves her combo capability.

ShonjlMay 27, 201522 votes

Who is Elise? lol

idokiMay 27, 201541 votes

I think it's that champion who throws axes and is a berserker.

Vistha KaiMay 27, 201526 votes

Did you mean Draaaaaven?

MorsigilMay 27, 201552 votes

No, he meant Soraka, the celestial banana berserker. Here, her lore will refresh your memory:

The mysteries that surround Soraka are numerous. How did a simple creature destined for the celestial spheres suddenly become able to berserk? How did she craft her vaunted banana axe? What is she searching for as she crosses the Summoner's Rift? One thing is for certain: trying to stop the inexorable Soraka is a fool's mission.

idokiMay 27, 201511 votes

So that how ADC Soraka was born.

Ariel the CruelMay 27, 20155 votes

The Etwhal did all the work.

Kuroi86May 27, 20153 votes

Wait, when did Darius become a she? o.0

Ariel the CruelMay 28, 20153 votes

"he" "she", it's relative. I'm pretty sure living stone doesn't really have an actual gender.

SìelMay 28, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6wlxA9Ms,comment-id=00040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-28T00:08:45.736+0000)

"he" "she", it's relative. I'm pretty sure living stone doesn't really have an actual gender.

Living GEMS, regardless of gender it is truly truly truly outrageous

Kuroi86May 28, 20155 votes

Ezreal : Run Kalista! Get Janna away from here as fast as you can!

A sudden sparkle strikes our hero in the back and he is frozen in place watching his friends flee as the sounds of a deep yet smooth laugh echo from the bush behind him.

Samflash3May 28, 20152 votes

I thought that was Steve from accounting?

idokiMay 28, 20152 votes

Pretty sure it's Steven with an N from human resources.

ZydronMay 28, 20153 votes

No, it's Jake from state farm!

NinjaToad99May 29, 20151 votes

Jake from state farm playing LoL at 3 in the morning? WHO IS THIS?

pE4CbxDPQOMay 27, 201516 votes

OMFG this is a great idea. It's not a power nerf in terms of numbers, mobility or utility. You just don't need to go "okay im in spider, i'll switch to human now since i'll need to be spider again in like... idk 8 seconds."

Everyone have your friends upvote this to oblivion.

CatSithMay 27, 20152 votes

you should edit your 2nd sentence :P

ZedexMay 27, 20151 votes

How is this not a buff to mobility?

As soon as she cocoons you she jumps on you with her spiders E because of her ridiculous sounding form reset.

RIP Tahm KenchMay 28, 20151 votes

If she's ganking she's going to be starting from human form anyways and switching after using all spells. Really there's not much reason to be in human form except for the stun and spiderling damage.

pE4CbxDPQOMay 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How is this not a buff to mobility?

As soon as she cocoons you she jumps on you with her spiders E because of her ridiculous sounding form reset.

Becuase she can already do that, she just has to do an annoying preplanning.

Stackless PythonMay 27, 20159 votes

Because that might make her viable again, can't have that from Riot.

MasterVidallisMay 27, 20159 votes

The problem with elise is her lack of identity. She is a mediocre duelist, a mediocre tank and a mediocre assassin, but trying to be all three at once. They need to either giver her more burst so building her as an assassin is actually viable, or make her tankier and scale better off tank stats so you actually stay alive enough to benefit from her sustain damage.

As is if you build her tank you hit like a wet noodle and still have pretty limited cc in comparison to other, better tanks, build her as an assassin and you die before you can assassinate anything.

Resetting her ult on cocoon landing is a great idea all around and would smoothen her combo. Beyond that I would make two changes, make her W's healing on autos scale off of AP and change the scaling on her Q to a pretty high (65%) AP scaling to the flat damage and make the percentage health damage the extra that scales with level. This would make her actually viable as a tank where she'd have to stack health or as an assassin, where she'd have to stack AP, without allowing her to do both at once.

AbyssphereMay 27, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem with elise is her lack of identity. She is a mediocre duelist, a mediocre tank and a mediocre assassin, but trying to be all three at once. They need to either giver her more burst so building her as an assassin is actually viable, or make her tankier and scale better off tank stats so you actually stay alive enough to benefit from her sustain damage.

As is if you build her tank you hit like a wet noodle and still have pretty limited cc in comparison to other, better tanks, build her as an assassin and you die before you can assassinate anything.

Resetting her ult on cocoon landing is a great idea all around and would smoothen her combo. Beyond that I would make two changes, make her W's healing on autos scale off of AP and change the scaling on her Q to a pretty high (65%) AP scaling to the flat damage and make the percentage health damage the extra that scales with level. This would make her actually viable as a tank where she'd have to stack health or as an assassin, where she'd have to stack AP, without allowing her to do both at once.

Is she trying to be a tank though? There's nothing about Elise that says frontliner and there's nothing about her that has any synergy with defensive stats either.

dr lichdeathMay 28, 20151 votes

meh she is a "tanky" "assassin" basicly ever since the elise nerfs where she was a strong assassin while being full tank and they nerfed her assassin power which results in elise being either a full tank without the skills of a tank or an assassin without any health and being killed before she can assassin her target

TourianMay 27, 20159 votes

HazelViciousMay 28, 20151 votes

Honestly, how do you build her? and where do you play her? I like her mechanics, but have no clue how to play her in that way

BakugoBestBoyMay 28, 20151 votes

Elise is a Jungler, she literally has no other purpose but farm camps, take objectives and gank like a mad spider lady. The problem is that her kit is so fine tuned for jungling that she was too good at it (even being able to execute extremely safe tower dives as early as level 3) so she got all her numbers fucked. She needs a rework so she can have abilities that actually do damage again.

As far as how to build her she can be played with cinderhulk and a lot of tanky cdr items or with magus focusing items like abysall and liandries etc so she doesn't instadie before she can combo.

TourianMay 28, 20151 votes

AP bruiser. Its hard to say the exact build since she can build very versitally. I either go cinder or Magus, if cinder I stop at tier 2 jg item till later game since t3 doesn't increase gold income and because you want to capitalize on her damage early. Then I rush Ludens because it synergies with her kit so well (flat damage to a piss poor ratio, think ludens on AP kog) and actually gives her poke in teamgights via ludens human w. Morellos if I don't build frozen heart and or vice versa. Randuins if no frozen heart then an Mr item, abyssal when its reworked but for now banshees locket or banner of command. If I can get away with it I split push with this build since it has good waveclear and melts turrets. Only split with Elise if you're confident you can duel whoever they send and if you have good map awareness.

FistOfSharkieshaMay 28, 20151 votes

This. Either she needs a rework or she needs to be overpowered on paper in terms of raw stats, but balanced because of how long it takes to get her kit off.

TerchioMay 27, 20153 votes

She has very high (though conditional) mobility and a frustrating dodge. This makes it necessary to make her kit somewhat clunky (though Fizz somehow escapes it because they insist he can be a healthy mage). This clunky kit, however, doesn't land easily through her own CC. She is very underwhelming as a champion because she needs carrying to be proficient, but then is a very poor lategame carry choice because she's centered around that utility. If she had huge AoE potential, she'd be a mess. If she could insta-delete, she'd be in-and-out of tweaks (which somehow evade Fizz, Leblanc, and Zed, despite similarly high mobility).

The other problem with her is that her spiderlings' identity is to be jungle fodder, or maybe to snag a lucky Blitz grab here and there. She has too many conflicting identities going on, and she needs to just shave off the stragglers. Q scaling on HP % makes her a bit of a tank shredder, taking her further off the assassin she needs to be somewhat capable of. If she keeps all her tricks, she will always be fair on those who can manage the whole kit, and sub-par on those who try to focus on a particular strength, making her fall at worse than niche status.

ZeranaMay 27, 20153 votes

Possible Elise buffs that would make her viable again (not all at the same time don't be rediculous I'm trying to buff her not overload the kit)

Revert her spider form nerfs and give her percentage bonus health in spider form (this would cement her role as a poker who transitions into a tank but she should have a longer ult cd as a result maybe 10 seconds)
Up her q ratios a bit and allow her E to reset on kill (in both forms) and her spider form e to ward jump (this would cement her role as a assassin)
Up her W ratios in spider form and revert her spider form nerfs (this would cement her into a bruiser mage role much like Diana)
Up her w damage and increase her spiderling damage and percentage ap damage (this is also somewhat bruiser elise related but it would be more of a transition from a poker to a bruiser)

CatSithMay 27, 20152 votes

Omg I love you O3o, this would help her so much! So many kills has gotten away because of her long cd to change forms. Even without nidalee's ult reset she has a 3 second cd while elise has 4.

pE4CbxDPQOMay 27, 20152 votes

I'm spamming this thread in my champ select lobbies. :) hope to get the upvote counter in the thousands lol.

JimmyNtheKudosMay 27, 20152 votes

Elise was such a fun champ, yeah at one point she was OP as f*ck and was picked every other game in LCS, but come on it's time to see her back.

EvilRabbittMay 27, 20153 votes

I feel like this ties back to what happens in card games (Yugioh, MTG, etc)- at one point certain decks were powerful, but due to powercreep they are now significantly weaker and pumping them to former glory may not be as bad as we think. Blackwings to Mermails, Elise to Kalista.

JasiwelMay 27, 20152 votes

I was thinking something similar last night trying Nidalee for the first time. It makes me really wonder why Riot has allowed her to have so much power, where as Kha'Zix and Elise are inferior now in every way. On top of that, Nidalee still has the best targeted heal in the game...that also boosts Atk Speed by a good amount. It just doesn't make sense to me why she has only ever gotten love taps, despite being arguably the most cancerous champion in the game after prework Kassadin, while Kha and Elise are just really flipping bad in comparison.

CatSithMay 28, 20152 votes

RIOT NEEDS TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN! Elise Elise Elise Elise Elise

Meep ManMay 28, 20152 votes

More importantly, why does Elise's ultimate have a cool down? Why not have it be like 1 second.

TourianMay 27, 20151 votes

As a hardcore Elise main that's not going to do jack shit for her, it would be a buff along the lines of the 25 more bonusdamage to monsters like they did a couple patches back: an attempt at placating us. Her problem is that if you build her tank she isn't tanky and does 0 damage, and if you build her damage she dies before she can do it in a teamfight. IMO, have human W CD scale down with rank so that if you build straight AP you can have a role in teamfights. Or maybe make rapprochement do something for her after using it for a couple seconds like some extra damage on her next AA or q or some mpen.

EliseOPMay 27, 20152 votes

would allow her to walk in spiderform onto the lane switch to humanform stun w q insta switch again to spiderfom -> kill very big early game buff

JustChanceMay 28, 20151 votes

kek

InSingedWeTrustMay 28, 20151 votes

Please

Kristari ZuboroMay 28, 20151 votes

The messed up thing was that Elise was never a great duelist herself, she was great at SETTING UP kills in lane, and killing low health targets.

That's not being an assassin or a tank... They just nerfed her in every way because she was too good of a TEAM player.

TransgressorMay 28, 20151 votes

Why should it? I see no point in it, Nidalee's R for example doesn't reset every time she lands a spear, instead she gets increased range on her pounce. Nidalee's smooth transition is caused by her short R cooldown, not by resets. Elise's could use being as low. Perhaps she gets increased range with her Q on spiderform when she targets cocooned targets, but I see no point in actual resets.

AbyssphereJun 5, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why should it? I see no point in it, Nidalee's R for example doesn't reset every time she lands a spear, instead she gets increased range on her pounce. Nidalee's smooth transition is caused by her short R cooldown, not by resets. Elise's could use being as low. Perhaps she gets increased range with her Q on spiderform when she targets cocooned targets, but I see no point in actual resets.

Huh? Nidalee gets a reset on her transform every time she procs hunted, which happens every time she lands a spear or someone steps on a trap.