I've always supported riot's decisions to some degree until they decided to kill Veigar outright.

El Seibzehn··4 votes·709 views

As a Veigar main I was excited to read the changes that they put on this morning until I saw what they are doing to him, and now I want to cry because he is going to disappear for good now. I don't have a problem with the Baleful Strike change. I think it adds some interesting new play to Veigar and I'm not against it. I also was not against the AP ratio on Primordial Burst being lowered because you might actually have more AP due having the possibility of having higher Baleful Strike farm. And then I saw the stun change... WTF are riot? I could see you lowering the stun duration (as well as slightly lowering the delay on Dark Matter so that you can still hit just barely) but this change means that you might as well remove the ability to hit champions with Dark Matter at all, because it's never going to happen now. The stun doesn't work as a cage because if you don't land Event Horizon directly on top of an opponent, the width of Dark Matter is small enough that anyone Gold rank or higher who has played against Veigar before can easily move out of the way of it (Even if you get stuck inside Event Horizon, all you have to do to dodge a Dark Matter cast into the center is willingly walk into the edge of Event Horizon and you won't get hit.) Early game, in order to kill an opponent you have to land the full combo perfectly with an ignite to kill an opponent and even then some champs can just barely get out of the way of Dark Matter if they have any sort of evasion ability. Guess how many times I've landed a Dark Matter without my stun on someone Gold rank or higher in the last 6 months? If you 0, then you would be correct.

Please Riot. Please don't kill Veigar. Please.

8 Comments

Nucleophilic atk2 votes

Dude. Veigar doesn't make #LC$BIGPLAY$. He is not allowed to be viable.

redniwediS1 votes

Don't overreact, Veigar is going to be perfectly fine after these changes go live.

El Seibzehn1 votes

Do you play Veigar? I have a few friends that main Veigar and this was the exact same thing they said when they saw the changes. It's not an overreaction.

redniwediS2 votes

No changes are final, if they missed the mark they will correct it. Balance is a long term thing that isn't all about the changes from a single patch.

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

Can one of these people be so kind as to post the PBE notes, seeing that Riot doesn't have PBE patch notes? I don't get why people will complain about something without enough context to actually compare.

Yes, I'm going to go look it up and see if I can find it myself, but it's still irritating to not understand the conversation because there is no context.

El Seibzehn1 votes

Veigar changes hitting the PBE Soon

Hey guys, SmashGizmo here to talk to you about some changes to the Tiny Master of Evil coming to PBE soon.

A vital part of Veigar's identity has always been about catching people out and 100-0ing them in the blink of an eye, so when we were looking to remove DFG, Veigar was sitting at the top of the list of characters affected by the removal. When looking at a lot of these characters, we found that the full 100-0 combo wasn't something we wanted to support and decided to re-focus them around other aspects of their kits (i.e. making Ahri more about her movement than the 1-shot combo). But for Veigar, this approach seemed off. He is the quintessential burst mage and we wanted to find a way to let him continue to function as such in a world without DFG. Enter the Q double-hit.

Q - Baleful Strike

Changed to a skill shot that stops on the second unit hit
Grants 1 AP for each unit killed
Range increased to 850 from 650
Cooldown changed to 7/6.5/6/5.5/5 from 8/7/6/5/4

By amping up the AP farming mini-game on his Q, we're creating a new path for Veigar players to achieve their dream of pressing a single button and watching an enemy disappear. As it turns out though, this worked a bit too well, and pretty early in playtesting, we found that Veigar was reliably deleting people a bit too early in the game, so we had to make some small adjustments to his ult.

R - Primordial Burst

AP Ratio reduced to 1.0 from 1.2 (Ratio on enemy's AP unchanged)
Mana Cost flattened to 125 at all ranks from 125/175/225
Cooldown reduced to 120/100/80 from 130/110/90

While 0.2 is a sizeable hit to his Ult's ratio, I want to stress that Veigar is getting quite a bit more AP from his Q in this version than on live and reassure any worried Veigar players out there that we're still seeing those beefy 2K+ Primordial Bursts in the late game with this version.

From here, we should move on to talking about Event Horizon and how it fits into the picture. With the current version of Event Horizon, the optimal use is for the Veigar player to place his Event Horizon such that it immediately stuns his opponent. This leads to the ability feeling like a particularly awkward skill shot with almost no dodgability provided to the opponent once the Veigar player masters aiming it. When we took a step back and thought about what the ability was really trying to get at, we saw the ideal Event Horizon being more about trapping your opponent in a cage for Veigar to torment than simply about stunning a dude at 1025 range. In the interest of pushing towards this ideal, we've added a delay and warning particle to Event Horizon to encourage Veigar to use it more to trap opponents than to immediately stun them.

E - Event Horizon

Has a 0.75 second delay with a warning particle before the walls appear
Mana Cost decreased to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120
Cooldown reduced to 18/17/16/15/14 from 20/19/18/17/16
Range increased to 700 from 650

This definitely represents a shift in how Veigar uses this ability, but our belief is that this version of the spell is much healthier and leads to more fun interactions between Veigar and his hapless victims. Instead of blowing up a prone target, Veigar traps his prey in a chamber of horrors and shoots Baleful Strikes at them and drops Dark Matters where they have limited space to dodge. Speaking of Dark Matter, meteors are pretty cool and frankly, Veigar doesn't get to drop quite enough of them on people's heads.

W - Dark Matter

Mana Cost reduced to 70/75/80/85/90 from 70/80/90/100/110
Cooldown reduced to 10/9.5/9/8.5/8 from 10 at all ranks

And with that, we've hit the full set of Veigar changes that are about to hit a PBE near you.

Abyssphere1 votes

If he does do terribly then they won't leave him be. It's common for them to leave champs unplayable after nerfs but when they put out reworks of sorts, they always keep a close eye on them. There's a reason Cassiopeia got her time in the stupidly broken spotlight, after all.

I can't agree or disagree on these changes being bad for Veigar but if they are bad for him then they'll compensate. He won't be left unusable for long.

CaptainTurfu1 votes

You are absolutly right this is a disgrace to all veigar main's. That wasn't a nerf they just killed him forever...

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