Wrigglestone Needs to Stop

SkyblazeHydraX3··2 votes·903 views

Wrigglestone, Madstone, whatever you want to call it, it needs to go. The combination of Spirit Stone and Madred's Razors promotes the toxic playstyle of AFK farming, where the jungler goes into the jungle for the first 10-20 minutes of the game without ganking or participating in the game at all. Then they suddenly come out of the jungle 2 levels higher than everyone else and several items ahead in their build. This isn't fun to play with or against; if you're playing with someone using Wrigglestone, you're essentially in a 4v5 for the first half of the average game and have to hope the enemy jungler doesn't make your life hell on top of dealing with your lane opponents. If you're fighting against it you're essentially on a timer until the enemy jungler comes out with a massive stat and item advantage and completely destroys whatever lead or advantage you may have cultivated.

Riot has previously made it abundantly clear that they DO NOT approve of AFK farming because it removes participation and interaction; it's for this very reason that they nerfed Wriggle's Lantern and Feral Flare, so that even "carry junglers" who benefit more from farming to the appropriate level are encouraged to make ganks and show themselves on occasion.

Riot has already proven that they can make items mutually exclusive, as they've done with all gold generation items. They've also proven this with their PS5 jungle items, which are not only exclusive but also require a specific summoner spell to purchase. Now while I know there is the option to wait it out until Preseason hits and watch as both the Spirit and Wriggle lines go adios, but Riot has previously proven they aren't opposed to making short-term fixes for the health of the game. I believe this is one of those occasions where a short-term fix is necessary. Wrigglestone needs to be removed for the fact that it promotes a lack of interaction in the game and can lead to a very toxic game for everyone except the Wrigglestone jungler; and even THEY aren't immune, if their strategy bites them in the ass.

Wrigglestone just is not a good thing. It needs to go.

18 Comments

Samuel Lee2 votes

it's only good on champions that aren't popular right now so riot doesn't care

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

It's gaining increased popularity though, and that's a problem. Udyr has become a consistent ban for me and my friends, simply because Wrigglestone is such a problem that we can't seem to beat Udyr after he's farmed up.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

so beat him before he is faremd up you get gold annd you are stornger he is dead and does not farm

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Yeah, funny thing about that. I played a game where I was Wukong, and even went so far as to counterjungle Udyr. His end KDA was 1/4/4, while mine was 6/6/3 (In a 4v5 where our Trundle toplane disappeared for 10+ minutes and our Ryze support went top). He still ended up 2 levels higher, 2k more money, 3x more farm.

Yeah, that worked.

Samuel Lee2 votes

just kite him udyr is useless anyways he never gets to your team before dying

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Alas, doesn't work so great when you're melee, or Udyr builds Trinity Force + Boots of Swiftness on top of his own passive and Bear Stance.

Besides, I don't really consider it fair counterplay when your ability to deal with someone is decided in champion select. I have a similar problem with Darius.

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

warwick beats udyr so you can have a slightly less as you put it toxic play style with warwick who only ganks when ult is up still beat udyr

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Don't get me started on Warwick, seriously. He's a champ with a broken (mechanically) and archaic kit, who is in desperate need of a complete overhaul.

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

teemo is a hard counter to udyr you can use him

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

That's too situational and relies on too many variables (like being able to go top or jungle).

ULTRAF0RCE1 votes

here are some counter picks http://www.championselect.net/champions/udyr ashe is an adc who counters teemo is a top/jungler who counters kayle is a jungler who counters janna is a support who counters most mages can counter him as well annie is a pretty good counter

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

The combination of Spirit Stone and Madred's Razors promotes the toxic playstyle of AFK farming

ahahahahhahahahaha yeah right you dont even know what madstone is for and you want to remove it heheh

let me explain madstone udyr is a specific jungler whop represents a specific type of junglers aka controll jungler his main pros are

  • fast jungler clear
  • capability to take ovbjecxtives fast his cons are -weak trading
  • weak ganks

if enemy team has 3 dragons in 25 min it means that enemy udyr does good job if your jungler wards his jungle and kills him every time he enters it it means that udyr got countered by his own items

Samuel Lee1 votes

lol udyr weak trading

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

yeah i though the same until i started walking in his junghe with vi 1 attempt he runs away 2 attemt he ran away 3 rd attempt he didnt make it

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Weak trading... sure.

The first problem is Udyr doesn't even need to counter jungle. He can farm in his own jungle to get pretty much the same result.

The second is that 9/10 when I run into Udyr I see Wrigglestone, and I never catch sight of him until he's overfarmed already- even as the jungler.

Contrary to your claims, what I see most often is an Udyr who sticks to his own jungle and does absolutely nothing else. Even counter jungling has interaction and risk; this is just abusing the features of two items to give yourself an advantage with no risk.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

who said that udyr will walk in your jungle .. you have to go to his jugnle and whack him
the second problem is also explained by your unability to understand what are you supposed to do contrarty to my claims you back your arguments with lack of logic

by your logic udyr should find a moment where he is the weakes and just come to you so you can kill him... he wont do it... just get to work

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Y'know, this would go a lot easier if you could make your english more comprehensible.

Language barrier aside, Wrigglestone means there IS NO SUCH WEAKNESS. It lets someone farm in the jungle without going back for health and mana until he has ludicrous amounts of gold to buy the desired items. That's why it's a problem; it permits no openings, little to no risk, and encourages little to no interaction with the enemy team until you have a severe level and gold advantage.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

but wrigle stone cant survive a trade with other jungler.. so just ward his jungle and kill him while he is doing wraiths his buff or whatever he might be doing

or make your jungler gank more and snowball your lanes so their stacked udyr will be the only thing you have to worry about, killing him in a 5v1 fight wont be hard

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