A Minor Gripe about Fiora's Passive...

SkyblazeHydraX3··36 votes·12,861 views

I'm not gonna comment on Fiora's viability, and whether or not she's underpowered or overpowered. She's far better than her old kit, that's for sure. But one gripe I have about her kit without regards to balance is her passive. More specifically, that the side on which the Vitals appear is completely random. This can make it unreliable and difficult to play around, for both Fiora and her opponent, especially in the thick of battle. Popped an enemy's Vital? Now try and keep track and see where the next one shows up while also trying to survive a teamfight and keep track of eight other bodies. Even in laning the unpredictability of her passive can be costly. It requires Fiora waste valuable seconds in a game where split-second reactions are key trying to track where the next Vital shows up, and her threat level rises and drops unpredictably based on where the Vital is. Even for the opponent this is troublesome, because they have to wait and hope the next Vital shows up in a spot they can easily protect.

Riot has repeatedly said they don't like luck or RNG in their game (barring crit), and Fiora's passive currently has it aplenty. So my suggestion is pretty simple; give the Vitals a predetermined pattern, or maybe even patterns, that Fiora players and her opponents can learn and play around. This would give Fiora much more clear highs and lows that can be reacted to much more quickly for both sides.

Yes? No? Maybe? Feedback appreciated.

52 Comments

A Superb Villain13 votes

I do not think the manifestation of vitals are completely random; if a vital appears on one side, it is guaranteed it will show up on a side opposite that.

I am not saying Fiora's passive should be left as it is, believe me I am all for more reliability, but I do not think the placement is random.

RiotRiot Scruffy16 votes

This is correct, it alternates red side (2 options) -> blue side (2 options) so it's pseudo random you might say.

OverpoweredSoap2 votes

{quoted}

This is correct, it alternates red side (2 options) -> blue side (2 options) so it's pseudo random you might say.

How would you guys at Riot feel if it always went (as an example)clockwise when hit/disappearing?

Durzaka2 votes

You can be sure they already tested that, since it is the most obvious thing.

Im sure they made it opposites so it wouldnt be such a perfect pattern like that.

Retillin10 votes

Why does it seem (and I could be wrong on this) that I can "miss" procing her passive by being TOO close to the enemy? There are times it is up there and I Q dash into hit that side but I end on the correct side of the champion, but I don't proc the passive until I take a step back.

RiotRiot Scruffy17 votes

Not sure, this isn't intended behavior. Will look into it to see if there are any rare case bugs etc.

WarWork1 votes

This has happened to me too multiple times.

Steelflame5 votes

can we get a smidge of overlaps on the zones as well? Currently, you can be 1% off, and lose it entirely. I've had times where I've seen the line go THROUGH the marker and it not trigger. I've also had a strange case of where I triggered my entire ult instantly almost. Don't know how I did it, but I ulted someone, started the fight, and almost instantly the ult ended. I had in no way moved enough to trigger everything though. I had only covered what should have been half the ult, but all the marks vanished, and I got the heal. And considering the target was still alive, I sure didn't kill them for the ult proc...

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

stray thought. . . Hydra proc?

Steelflame5 votes

If that was all it took to instaproc her ult, it would happen every game the moment timiat was built. Considering that doesn't happen, we can safely say that's not it.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

I've only seen her once, And I was running Lissandra top. I don't think she ever managed to strike a vital.

Orangesilk2 votes

That's the hardest of counters XD

Lockenster1 votes

hydra active doesn't count as a basic attack thank god for that

Archeanthus2 votes

{quoted}

can we get a smidge of overlaps on the zones as well? Currently, you can be 1% off, and lose it entirely. I've had times where I've seen the line go THROUGH the marker and it not trigger. I've also had a strange case of where I triggered my entire ult instantly almost. Don't know how I did it, but I ulted someone, started the fight, and almost instantly the ult ended. I had in no way moved enough to trigger everything though. I had only covered what should have been half the ult, but all the marks vanished, and I got the heal. And considering the target was still alive, I sure didn't kill them for the ult proc...

YES, please and thank you!!

Ultîma1 votes

As someone who has played numerous game on the new Fiora, I can confirm this happens all the time. Basically if you attack someone when you're up in their face, as opposed to attacking them at the full range of your auto-attack, the passive will likely not proc even if you're in the correct quadrant.

Squidblimp1 votes

This happens to me sometimes.

Hupsis1 votes

There's a bug which allows the vitals to appear on the same spot multiple times after proc'ing it.

I have been able to proc a vital on the south side of the target three times in a row!

Lazypeon1001 votes

{quoted}

There's a bug which allows the vitals to appear on the same spot multiple times after proc'ing it.

I have been able to proc a vital on the south side of the target three times in a row!

I've had this happen as well, though I have no idea how to recreate it, as it seems to happen entirely at random.

Poske1 votes

{quoted}

This is correct, it alternates red side (2 options) -> blue side (2 options) so it's pseudo random you might say.

Consider Making it turn as the marked target turns

It would remove randomnes

It would allow for more counterplay

It would make sense. If marked weak spot at the moment is face Then its face however target turns

Champion Skin1 votes

The problem with this... is that you can turn around almost instantly making it incredibly hard for Fiora to actually be able to proc any of the marks

yay nibbers3 votes

I've actually melted people as Fiora because Vitals kept showing up on the same side and I didn't have to move. It's pretty random.

Biff Manly4 votes

Quinn would like to have a word with you about random, unreliable passives.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

And AA's. (Bugs OP)

yay nibbers2 votes

I've been playing a lot of Fiora lately. It's actually not too hard to keep on vitals with the right items and/or Ghost/Flash. At max CDR you can dash every 1.9ish seconds and her E helps too. As well Phage and its Rage passive speeds you up a fair bit. Combine all this with Ghost and you're set.

In lane you can actually back up until your opponent is out of range to reset the passive and potentially put the vital in a better position, something my opponent is also capable of (though most don't realise it). I do this a lot to harass my opponents to the point of staying away from their own minions.

What I personally don't like about the vitals is the hitbox on them is so fickle. Often I think I'm going to hit the vital but it doesn't pop. Tends to happen a lot if I'm right on top of them.

Jamener4 votes

The ult is also delayed and clunky. You can ult a person, Q right after, and still manage to miss a vital. One time, I was standing right on top of a person I ult'd and managed to never hit a vital even after 3 or 4 AA's. Also, apparently if you're hitting a person diagonally you can also miss vitals.

yay nibbers1 votes

I've noticed that a lot too, both hitting nothing when on top of them and missing vitals diagonally. It's really annoying

Loken Stoneheart2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=riNeyaWT,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-08-23T03:42:25.263+0000)

I've noticed that a lot too, both hitting nothing when on top of them and missing vitals diagonally. It's really annoying

{quoted}

Why does it seem (and I could be wrong on this) that I can "miss" procing her passive by being TOO close to the enemy? There are times it is up there and I Q dash into hit that side but I end on the correct side of the champion, but I don't proc the passive until I take a step back.

Very much this. If you aren't square in the middle of the vital when you AA, its always a miss. I've managed to kill champs and not get my ult to proc as well, presumably because I killed them without hitting them from ANY OF THE FOUR POSSIBLE DIRECTIONS? I'm sorry, but it should be impossible to AA and not hit one of the four when all four are available.

And on my own note: Fiora vs Fiora matches are awful. It genuinely feels like RNG the game. Playing any of the new "counterplay" champs (Sion, Darius, Veigar, the ones with massive delays) also feels awful vs Fiora. She just... just absolutely ruins them with her W.

yay nibbers1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=riNeyaWT,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-23T16:14:03.982+0000)

And on my own note: Fiora vs Fiora matches are awful. It genuinely feels like RNG the game. Playing any of the new "counterplay" champs (Sion, Darius, Veigar, the ones with massive delays) also feels awful vs Fiora. She just... just absolutely ruins them with her W.

I personally like Fiora v. Fiora. So many people I play against don't seem to know that you can reset her passive for better vitals. That's the key to beating out a another Fiora in lane, and the mechanic in general is what I think really sets good and okay Fioras apart.

I feel like new Fiora in general can be pretty frustrating to play against just judging from how other people act in lane when I'm playing her (she's all I've been playing lately so I can't really speak from a victim standpoint). Last night I had a Hecarim staying so far away he was out of vision range because they didn't want their vitals poked. They lost a lot of gold and xp because I wasn't pushing lane. Others I've went against ended up feeding me kills because they wanted to farm which let me poke them down enough with my passive to finish them off with an ult, and when Fiora has you ulted and is Ghosting you aren't getting away. The Riposte is also quite handy for the "counterplay" champions. I can't imagine what it was like for the Dariuses and such I've played against.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

I just don't like when I ult someone and can repeatedly auto attack someone and not proc a single passive because the hitboxes are so unforgiving. I feel like I can hit the gaps between the 4 Vitals instead of the actual Vitals themselves on a consistent basis. Can we at least make all the Vitals touch so you can at least guarantee 1 hit during your ult?

Toastey1 votes

10/10 good kush i think the new fiora is really fun and has a lot of potential, but the completely random vitals placement did throw me off a little.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Glad to see someone agrees. What does "kush" mean though?

FluxBound1 votes

Yeah, it's pretty hard to track in teamfights, but if you want a little help during laning move back a bit and you can reset the vital points. This is useful if you are playing as or against Fiora. I think they will her as is so she can have a defined weakness (teamfights) and a defined strength (duels).

SkyblazeHydraX32 votes

Another issue actually, is that there's no indication of the range of her passive. Some range indicator as to how far or how close you have to be to make Vitals appeal.

FluxBound1 votes

I don't see this as too much of a problem, but it would be nice to see it when you hover over the passive icon.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Something as simple as that is exactly what I'd like to see. Just an idea to know where you gotta be to make vitals appear.

Durzaka1 votes

If the Vitals arent made random, then it becomes too reliable to actually use them.

Like, it would be ridiculous if they just when in a specific order every time.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Hence why I raised the possibility of multiple patterns. Gotta try and figure out which pattern the current rotation is taking in order to make the most of it.

Shingo1 votes

You can "reset" the vital by moving out of range of your target for a chance at an easier vital when you return into range though I don't think it's that big of a deal honestly. I'd rather the passive be semi random and keep its damage than become a flat rotation and be made weaker.

Also I totally agree on her passive and ult procs seeming to miss at times when you are directly on top of targets

Adalore1 votes

I have noticed some Q's not procing the passive, yet I get the q soft reset. So I don't even know.

OJ1911 votes

{quoted}

I have noticed some Q's not procing the passive, yet I get the q soft reset. So I don't even know.

Because Q just has to hit to soft reset doesn't have to proc passive.

Now why it isn't proccing passive if it looked like it should have who knows, but just saying it can soft reset without proccing.

Avious1 votes

Meanwhile Quinn 's reliability.

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Quinn is already known to need some help. Hell, I've seen like 5 comments about her passive in this thread.

AkabaneKun1 votes

Yea getting 3 vitals on the back in a row is just... And trading with her after she just Q a vital and right after a vital appears in the front and she just procs the vital and wins the trade she shouldn't win is also pretty bs, right now like OP said its pretty much like crit pure rng that shouldn't exist in a pvp game, and let's not forget when fiora gets fb/ahead most of top laners are done vs her, since there is almost no way to itemize vs her after 6 and she has enough stickiness and true dmg to win anyone.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

Patterns sounds like a good idea, but we don't want the Fiora or the enemy game play to become to predictable or repetitive.

If there's gonna be a pattern then it should a multitude of patterns that can be chosen. Which pattern the game picks of course would be random, but if Fiora or the enemy can recognize the pattern - the sequence of the vital spot location then thats cool; it opens a lot of doors.

Also the sequence should be relatively long and after completing the pattern a few times it should switch to another pattern.

Hows that?

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

On another comment I actually gave the suggestion of multiple patterns. Perhaps it could change after X amounts of successful hits?

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

On another comment I actually gave the suggestion of multiple patterns. Perhaps it could change after X amounts of successful hits?

yes agreed.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

As long as its not made to always face Fiora, I'm fine with a rework of that...

Sulghunter1 votes

Fiora has it easy with the passive. At least you're garunteed to have a passive mark on a champion, and multiple champions at once I might add. item 3070 Quinn item 3070

SkyblazeHydraX31 votes

Quinn is known to need some more reliability.

AntiSkillshot1 votes

All I can say is...

Can we seriously nerf it's early game damage just a bit...? Or make the Q not proc the passive? I mean, seriously. It's partly unfair I lose a fifth (or more) of my health on a target that just got a speed boost to run away.

On the note of Quinn. Her passive is far from RNG. It's only RNG if it shows up if you haven't attacked. And, even then, it picks the lowest percentage health target at the time.

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