So looking forward to ADC nerfs...

SkyblazeHydraX3·Aug 3, 2016·32 votes·3,253 views

I'm sick of seeing this "Korean Build" ( + + + w/e) bullshittery and the same 5 or so ADCs every goddamn game. I know Riot named names with regards to ADC nerfs ( & ), but I hope they do something about the latest fad build in general.

Partly because I have a very much biased hatred against lately, and am sick of her ultimate literally 100-0ing anyone who can't immediately leap/dash/flash/blink out of the ability- and sometimes even that isn't enough.

And also partly because at range in general is one of the more frustrating things in the game at the moment.

115 Comments

Critmaster GarenAug 3, 201632 votes

"if duskblade becomes a problem on ranged carries were going to make it a melee item" - rito

RalanrAug 3, 20162 votes

There an actual link to that?

Critmaster GarenAug 3, 20168 votes

{quoted}

There an actual link to that?

its an old comment, and will be really difficult to find.

im not sure who it was, but if i remember correctly it came from meddler when duskblade first hit the pbe.

what i do know is, some people voiced concerns, that it wasnt a melee item and might be abused by marksmen. they answered they will definitely add a "melee only" tag if ranged adc start picking it up.

which they didnt.

warpenguin555Aug 3, 201613 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/GhWdm3R6-new-ad-assassin-item-in-internal-testing?comment=00040002

found it :)

ElikainAug 3, 20164 votes

These items are not a problem. The items found a use for range champions as well but it's hardly overtaking the ADC itemization by storm. The champions who use it are the champions who can deal burst damage and Jhin and MF so happen to be in the right department, with the right itemization.

Yomuu's clearly circumvents the problem of low mobility so those ADCs you mention (Jhin and MF) are prime examples and Cait, Sivir and Ashe (the other popular ones) definitely go with Runaan's, IE and Essence Reaver path.

Black Cleaver is best utilized on champions that can apply it's stacks easy or on multiple targets at once so Lucian and MF are prime examples of that. Other ADCs don't use it effectively.

I am not saying that Jhin doesn't deserve nerfs but Ashe is questionable in my book. The only reason she's strong is because there's absence of lane bullies and as a utility ADC, she can contribute meaningfully. I used to be an Ashe main and before her rise to popularity, i was sure i was going to make a post about butting Ashe in utility department, not damage.

As it stands, i still believe that in nerfing Ashe, once the meta shifts to traditional damage dealers again, she's going to be left in the gutter and would need pick-me-up buffs to bring her back in line. That means these buffs are only aimed at reducing her popularity at the moment - from my perspective.

manbearswineAug 3, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EYT2Ai12,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-08-03T10:36:11.722+0000)

"if duskblade becomes a problem on ranged carries were going to make it a melee item" - rito

It's not actually a problem specifically on adcs, it's not like it's rushed on anything, the problem is armor pen, the ranged adcs are just pointing out the problem, don't kill the messenger.

ShadòwAug 3, 201622 votes

item 3142 needs to be made meele only

MizayaAug 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

needs to be made meele only

you can make it melee only after nerfing the 154% efficiency on active and buffing crit items

ShadòwAug 3, 20165 votes

efficiency % means nothing.

item 3050 is 277.56% Gold Effective during it's effect duration. Does it need a nerf?

MizayaAug 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

efficiency % means nothing.

is 277.56% Gold Effective during it's effect duration. Does it need a nerf?

Oh, I didn't know you could activate it whenever you wanted?

If that's true, then yeah that needs serious nerfs.

Oh wait, you need to build up stacks first, LMAO.

154% efficiency on ghostblade and you just pop it whenever you want to fight. And people are still wondering why it's built over IE or ER on so many carries. smh.

ShadòwAug 3, 20166 votes

What if i told you that you can't permanently move around with 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed?

It's six second which you have to make count. During the other time, the item is not even 100% gold efficient.

It gives you the Bonuses when engaging in a fight, but not when waveclearing/roaming around the map.

gold efficiency isn't even official and absolute BS.

item 3042 is 148% gold effective according to lolwiki WITHOUT it's passive. wow, much op, very nerf.

And did you know that item 3069 is 142% Gold effective during it's active when affecting one Champ, and 395% when affecting the whole team?

With your logic, the item would have been nerfed into oblivion yet.

Can you accept every Item has it's strengths and weaknesses, and there is no such thing as Gold efficiency as it only compares stats from items and their Gold values. smh.

MizayaAug 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

What if i told you that you can't permanently move around with 40% attack speed and 20% movement speed?

It's six second which you have to make count. During the other time, the item is not even 100% gold efficient.

It gives you the Bonuses when engaging in a fight, but not when waveclearing/roaming around the map.

gold efficiency isn't even official and absolute BS.

is 148% gold effective according to lolwiki WITHOUT it's passive. wow, much op, very nerf.

And did you know that is 142% Gold effective during it's active when affecting one Champ, and 395% when affecting the whole team?

With your logic, the item would have been nerfed into oblivion yet.

Can you accept every Item has it's strengths and weaknesses, and there is no such thing as Gold efficiency as it only compares stats from items and their Gold values. smh.

And it was designed as an assassin item, because that 6 second window is what you make count, where you jump in and kill your target. If you're not getting the full value of it on Talon or Zed then something's wrong.

And you're trying to compare Muramana, the antethesis of an early game item, to an item that is nearly always rushed? Who woulda knew that a item taking 15-25 minutes to stack is gold efficient once it's fully stacked?

And yeah Talisman is good for the active as well, but even less gold efficient than Yomuus without passive. 79% i believe. Yomuus had to be nerfed before it wasn't 100% gold efficient without the active. But it's still pretty damn close to 100%.

But you clearly never understood my first reply to you. YOU originally proposed for Yomuus to be made melee only. But since you've been defending it so much, why is it a problem for ranged champions to use it? Because if given the option, I would easily prefer buffs to actual adc itemization than any nerf to Yomuus, that does not help me at all when I play adc.

ShadòwAug 3, 20163 votes

why is it a problem for ranged champions to use it?

it was designed as an assassin item

You answered the question yourself. item 3142 itself is fine, but it is getting abused by ADCs.

They should make it meele only and balance (buff) the ADCs around the normal ADC items again.

Pika FoxAug 3, 20165 votes

Why? Quite honestly i feel like this is one of the best metas ADCs ever had and healthiest for the game. You can run a crit build on an ADC for late game damage, or you can run a penetration build for mid game damage, instead of just 1 build where you just rush AS + IE and right click to win.

Besides, ghostblade is already nerfed on radcs.

ShadòwAug 3, 20165 votes

It was nerfed global, not only for ADCs.

It's supposed to be an Assassin/Diver Item.

It is just wrong on Champs like Jhin Lucian or MissFortune . ADCs should deal their damage over time and get rewarded for good positioning and attacking through the whole fight, instead of just bursting down squishies.

Bladerunner7777Aug 3, 20164 votes

How else is Lucian gonna achieve his anime run?????

KING 5HARKAug 3, 20161 votes

So Jayce and Varus dont exist?

ShadòwAug 3, 20163 votes

Jayce is considered meele.

Never seen a Varus build it.

KING 5HARKAug 6, 20161 votes

Jayce is considered meele.

Only in hammer form. You have never seen a Varus build ghostblade? Do you have eyes?

ShadòwAug 6, 20161 votes

Both have other valid build paths.

That woudn't mean the end of them. They could also make it so item 3142 only gives half-effects for Ranged Champs.

ZT XperimentorAug 3, 20169 votes

I'm not surprised riot's assassin item has been abused ever since it came out; nor am I surprised riot's been stalling on this glaring issue.

SkyblazeHydraX3Aug 3, 20162 votes

With Worlds on the horizon and League being a game where the butterfly effect is constant, Riot does have to pace themselves when it comes to balance.

Still looking forward to the nerfs though.

Violet RavenAug 3, 20168 votes

ADC Nerf = Assassin Rework

ThymetimeAug 3, 20163 votes

I just hope that they nerf the items themselves, rather than the champions. (cough Irelia a few patches ago) I'm personally having a great time as Varus against these kinds of champs, because I simply outrange them.¯_(ツ)_/¯

dominusxAug 3, 20161 votes

that's not the adc problem its the itemazation problems that plague league this season ( MasterYi Shyvana Graves Rammus Vladimir Lucian just few examples of champs that items broke them and they keep getting nerfed for it) i could add more but im bored lul

MarshbouyAug 3, 20163 votes

If a champion is abusing an itemset that everyone else is balanced with then they deserve to be nerfed, not the items.

RalanrAug 3, 201613 votes

But if the item turns out to be an actual problem and gets nerfed, the champions who were nerfed because of it don't get them reverted.

This is known as being Sejuani'd.

dominusxAug 3, 20161 votes

exactly at least she is playable now as ap

RalanrAug 3, 20162 votes

Eh, I still play her full tank with AP reds and Quints. She still hurts when she can stay on top of people.

dominusxAug 3, 20161 votes

nah fuck that shit then you gotta use your team to win. i prefer ap bruiser with some resistances and oneshot entire teams with R hextech and E

RalanrAug 3, 20161 votes

I'm a tank. Of course I need my team to win.

Doesn't mean I don't like having some threatening damage.

dominusxAug 3, 20161 votes

i meant i never rely on my team to carry a game hence i never play a tank unless 1: im support 2:enemy has a full ad teamcomp other than that fk no aint losing lp for nothing;p

RalanrAug 3, 20161 votes

Fair enough. I just don't like joining the race to carry my team.

Seriously, everybody is so busy fighting each other on who the carry is that they can't focus enough to group and end half the time. I'd rather be the reliable lock down than the reliable killer.

Because if I can lock people down to get killed, my team has a better chance to win the game. I'm a psuedo carry and proud.

dominusxAug 3, 20161 votes

I'm more of a lone wolf. i like to preassure a priority lane and then focus objectives and assasinations. i couldnt care much about teamfights unless im premade and ik how my premade is gonna play the fight why do a 50-50 teamfight when i can get a few tier 2 towers and maybe an Inh for 1-2 deaths on my team

RalanrAug 3, 20162 votes

Fair enough. Different players, different playstyles.

Vellich0rAug 4, 20161 votes

Actually, she is meta right now

dominusxAug 3, 20162 votes

Graves abused MAW everybody was getting it on everyone/ Korean build is on 3adcs so far Sated was abused by everyone guinso too thormnain and cinderhulk and rot aswell

bill84Aug 3, 20161 votes

Wait what item broke rammus? I thought he was just really strong earlier because there were at least two adcs on every team.

dominusxAug 4, 20161 votes

item 3068 item 3025 item 3512 combo rammus toplane pure aids you never killed him and the time you took to gun him down rot was already at your Inhibitor

redfeenixAug 3, 20161 votes

Is duskblade even that good? Can someone explain when you would buy it?

The effect seems pretty lackluster/ weak. Are the item stats that good?

NotSpecialDudeAug 3, 20163 votes

Its good for assassins and anyone who does burst AD damage because its ability gives a mini zed ult that does damage scaling with missing health %. Adcs that like to use it have decent burst in their kits like Lucian MissFortune etc.

Its fairly solid, gives decent ad/armor pen.

SnugglePuggle94Aug 3, 20164 votes

But ADC's shouldn't be building it at all. It's not meant for them. It's meant for underperforming assassins like Kha and Talon.

NotSpecialDudeAug 3, 20162 votes

Intentions and reality end up being different things in this case. You were right about the intentions, but the reality is that its a good item on any champ that has ad burst that can also throw in an auto or two.

Its a simple fix really, just lock it to melee or reduce its damage from ranged autos.

MiraweaveAug 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Intentions and reality end up being different things in this case. You were right about the intentions, but the reality is that its a good item on any champ that has ad burst that can also throw in an auto or two.

Its a simple fix really, just lock it to melee or reduce its damage from ranged autos.

Making it melee only wouldn't stop ADCs from building it. The proc often gets wasted by ranged autoattacks anyway, what makes the item powerful is the amount of damage and penetration it gives you.

KING 5HARKAug 3, 20163 votes

Everyone seems to forget about Jayce and Varus

TurquoiseYoshiAug 3, 20165 votes

Honestly, the two main users of it, Jhin and MF, only really get it to go with their flat arpen builds. The passive is super meh, but it gives the highest AD of any item (tied with Bloodthirster) along with a chunk of flat arpen (which is most useful against squishies and in the early game). It gives an incredible one/two-item spike, but gets outscaled by the standard ADC build at about 4 full items.

Crowe StalkerAug 3, 20162 votes

The Passive is an underestimated power spike on Jhin when they know to let someone get a poke spell off, hit W, and then Q before their first auto attack. Considering Jhin just gets pure AD goodness, people are pretty liable to overestimate their health values when the passive actually pops.

I prefer the Standard Build rather than Armor Penetration though, Armor Pen just feels like bullshit unless they have a Rammus, Malphite, or their entire team is building armor.

EDIT: Just found this thread, GB+DB is 23% worse damage per second for Jhin even with minimal mitigation, and it only gets worse as the game goes on.

blackfootedfoxAug 3, 20161 votes

That feel when your main ( Twitch ) isn't being the problematic powerful adc

Tobias BracknerAug 4, 20161 votes

Drakthar at range is pointless unless they all in.

It is a terrible item on Marksmen unless they make sure to follow up the engage with an all in.

And even then with dmg math I'm pretty sure it loses to more traditional builds.

GIt gud

SkyblazeHydraX3Aug 4, 20163 votes

.......Sure. Sure. That's why multiple ADCs in high ELO, including on everyone's precious Korean server and in pro play, are building Drakthar on the likes of Jhin, Miss Fortune, and Lucian.