"Riot, we need an AD grevious wounds item back."

warpenguin555·Nov 18, 2015·100 votes·5,369 views

Riot:"OK, executioners calling is back now" Players: "thanks riot" the next day ADC Players: "WTF why cant I kill mundo ?"

76 Comments

HabitzNov 18, 201526 votes

They never built Executioners when it was out the first time swear to god

BiffoloNov 18, 201530 votes

To be fair, the item was kind of crap before.

Auz the RipperNov 18, 20153 votes

it wasn't bad it was cost effective with a good combination of stats the problem was that it wasn't slot efficient

BiffoloNov 19, 201524 votes

Meaning it was bad.

Kuroi86Nov 19, 20151 votes

Even now when it can be made slot efficient, they don't buy it.

BiffoloNov 19, 20152 votes

And I was not referring to the item now, so this has no bearing on my previous statements.

HawkefireNov 19, 20153 votes

Somewhat true, but I disagree with you to a degree.

Personally I always felt the old executioners calling was undervalued or merely forgotten during times where it would have been effective. It was always an incredibly powerful item against fed drain tanks or other sustain heavy comps, and back when it was a thing I would often build it when dealing with these situations. However those situations were fairly uncommon, if not outright rare during that time period, and thus the item was never really built, and when a drain tank showed up that managed to get fed or a strong sustain comp showed up, no one really built the item simply because they forgot that it existed or they were simply too stupid to realize how effective the item actually was at shutting those comps down.

LeeDarkNov 19, 20151 votes

The problem remained that the opponent's ADC was so much stronger than you if you had to build Executioner's. Yes, you could kill that one healing problem... the opposing ADC could kill EVERYONE.

Oftentimes, I even built Executioner's as an ranged AP Support so my ADC wouldn't have to, and I just made sure to AA the Mundo/Swain.

Yosuke ApperuNov 19, 20151 votes

Imo something with a passive like applying grievous wounds on any physical damage.. should take up an item slot and not give much in raw stats, that in itself would shut down anyone with heavy healing, back then grievous wounds was better I believe as well. The current executioner's shouldnt be an 800 item either, or make it's passive weaker until you build it into mortal reminder.

LeeDarkNov 19, 20151 votes

Except ADC's are so dependent on being their teams sustained damage source that if you aren't fed in lane and you build a slot-inefficient item, you will be so far behind the enemy ADC that your whole team will lose teamfights. While you are able to actually kill the Mundo because you shut down his healing, the other ADC can kill your whole team, and faster, because they simply do more DPS.

AnidanNov 19, 20154 votes

Except this is League, not DotA so they can't really pull that off here. You need stats on items for it be worth your time, and you damn sure need stats on an item that once had no upgrade. Paying 800 gold for just Grievous Wounds, especially as an ADC, would feel extremely shitty because now you can't even dare to challenge the enemy ADC because you're down 800 gold just to counter the lifesteal that he's gaining from hitting you with far superior damage.

As a DotA player primarily, that sounds less fitting as a suggestion for a League item, and more along the lines of a DotA item (where the most valuable item in the game, for many heroes, is an item with absolutely no stats or effects except a Blink).

HAIL WHYDRANov 19, 20151 votes

Ew blink dagger. Dansgame Dansgame Dansgame

KONO RUBICK DANov 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Giratina,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nepabLq5,comment-id=00070000000200010000,timestamp=2015-11-19T11:54:54.569+0000)

Ew blink dagger. Dansgame Dansgame Dansgame

not just blink dagger, every items (except items that are made to bring stats like crit or dodge or magic resistance) has shit stats, because dota 2 items are made to give you a good active/passive i.e: shadow blade, blink dagger, battle fury, mijonir, satanic, desolator.

HAIL WHYDRANov 19, 20151 votes

I know. Im well aware actually since I play DotA2 as well. Just not as religiously as League. Im the scumbag that plays the Crit Lords, CK and PA. Im scum on earth xD

HeadHonchkrowNov 20, 20151 votes

Keep calm and pray to RNGesus

LordGeovanniNov 19, 20151 votes

you cant want to have the utility of cutting peoples healing that much and want godlike stats or passives that 40% armor pen is bs for tanks who have both physical and magic damage to deal with and now it activates on all physical damage instead of just crit even though crit chance back then was actually chance not just max out your crit and get all other stats on the side

Hyrum GraffNov 18, 201516 votes

{quoted}

ADC Players: "WTF why cant I kill mundo ?"

To be fair, it's probably more like,

WTF why cant I kill mundo item 3006 item 3031 item 3086

Still, if that were item 3031 item 3006 item 3123 item 1051 they'd have a better time.

KONO RUBICK DANov 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nepabLq5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-11-18T16:12:34.480+0000)

To be fair, it's probably more like,

WTF why cant I kill mundo

Still, if that were they'd have a better time.

crit is at this point, useless against mundo, they should like APC take IE in late game and go for item 3153 or item 3033 or item 3156 or item 3036 or item 3139 to counter him with sustain/magic resistance/anti heal/armor pene but yea, instead they rush like before BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT CHANGES IE and PD

The LovelessNov 18, 201514 votes

Missing 20% crit chance. You sure you didn't imagine this adc player?

warpenguin555Nov 18, 201515 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nepabLq5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-18T15:51:32.159+0000)

Missing 20% crit chance. You sure you didn't imagine this adc player?

No. its a bronze ADC.

BergkNov 18, 201511 votes

Enemy team has jungle Volibear and top DrMundo ... but my adc is like " item 3153 is trash now, I'm not buying that. item 3123 ? Never heard of that"

Ashe BoxNov 18, 20155 votes

DrMundo and Volibear are my favorite champs, I hope your adc is in all future games. IMO as someone who really only plays these fat champs item 3153 is the devil it was before and still is now

BIFFNov 18, 20154 votes

Can confirm. Volibear main.

With the new ADC items there are only 2 reasons to play these HP hungry champs. Either you love the champ or you're a Masochist.

koagerNov 18, 20157 votes

Was playing my first game of the pre-season up in top lane against a Nasus . I remembered that there was an AD item with GW but couldn't remember what it was so I asked and no one knew what I was talking about :(

FusarixNov 18, 20154 votes

Tbh, item 3034 is probably a better item for killing mundo than item 3123 . Since mundo just stacks health. It's still really sad to see that people aren't buying it though..

The LovelessNov 18, 20152 votes

They should make an item that combines them both for like 6k gold. Buying both of the last whisper upgrades can feel like a good sink since it's low ad and no big crit spike.

Axis the DragonNov 18, 20154 votes

Not a good idea. The last time Riot did something like that, they had to revert it because it was too cost effective ( item 3089 and item 3157 were originally a single item, kind of like item 3090 but it was a Ring and the stats were better iirc)

The LovelessNov 18, 20151 votes

But did it costs a metric ton of gold?

EndlessSorcererNov 18, 20153 votes

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zhonya's_Ring

Nope.

The LovelessNov 18, 20153 votes

Well then that's different from what I'm proposing. I'm saying make the last whisper items have a huge combine cost if the player wants to free up a slot, but it also won't grant them a big spike in damage. It's just a way to get the best of both worlds without wasting gold due to unique passives.

Axis the DragonNov 18, 20152 votes

Well, I suppose it could work, but it is a substantial super lategame ADC buff - while they're meant to be strong late, they're not meant to be completely unstoppable x)

Besides, why stop there? Riot could implement a bunch of fusion items (the aforementioned Deathcap + Zhonya's + a huge combine cost, or something like Athene's + Morello for a full 40% CDR item) - though I do admit that there aren't a lot of items (if at all) that pretty much forces you to choose one item over the other

Irelia BotNov 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Loveless,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nepabLq5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-18T16:13:23.115+0000)

They should make an item that combines them both for like 6k gold. Buying both of the last whisper upgrades can feel like a good sink since it's low ad and no big crit spike.

Only if they make mega Trinity force

BC + PD + IBG 100 Armor 100 AD auto attack spred 10% of the targets bonus armor up to 50% 50% Crit chance 50% attack speed 500 health...

Yeah I am basically sayign that your suggestion is too much power from one single item.

Need Gold 4 TentNov 19, 20151 votes

Back in the old days, i saw a Sion (the one that chops people up, not the mega cc tank) go top lane to stack trinity forces. We laughed at his stupidity at getting unstackable items, until he got his 3rd one and started to blow us up with his stun bomb while critting our dicks off. Didn't even need boots. I'd be tempted to try that again now that you reminded me of it, if it weren't for the fact they removed the ap on it sobs

LeeDarkNov 19, 20151 votes

Not just Mundo, though. Executioner's also does a lot to counter that heal on crit mastery everyone is whining about.

HawkefireNov 19, 20152 votes

On the contrary, that item ( item 3034 )is actually really really good at the exact opposite of what it is intended to do.

The item is incredibly powerful, if the enemy team is not stacking health but still have a health item built (such as item 3116 or item 3071 ).

In fact, the moment they have 500 more max hp than you, is the moment the item is at its most optimal state, anything above that and it is not doing anything extra, and thus isn't giving you anything more.

Then we take item 3123 , this item gets better the more sustain they have built (which is different from giants slayer, which really only needs the enemy to build a single health item or perhaps 2 health items to perform at its strongest). Mundo's sustain greatly increases as time goes on, generally because he is building lots of health, and quite a few of his items are also upping his standard health regen even more thus granting him even more sustain. It is shocking just how powerful Mundo's sustain is even without his ult taken into the picture, but when you consider the fact that his ult heals himself for 5% of his max HP in a second that is pretty damn huge (and not even taking into account the new mastery which increases that by a pretty damn massive amount, or the fact that mundo usually builds a spirit visage, which increases this even further) . Generally even with a item 3034 you probably aren't going to be doing more than 5% of mundo's health in a second.

So then, lets see if we can get a mathematical example in action here

We shall assume that Mundo is facing a relatively balanced team comp, and both are at level 18. Also no consumables were used. Case 1 (with Lord Dominicks Regards, a.k.a. giant slayer):

Lucian item 3036 item 3031 item 3006 item 3508 item 3812 item 3046

Runes that matter: 9x AD Marks, x3 attack speed quints Masteries that Matter: Battering blows, Fury, Warlords Bloodlust, and bounty hunter with all 5 stacks (for this case lucian took feast instead of double edged sword) **We shall assume lucian is only autoattacking

Couple assumptions that we shall make here, first bing that warlords bloodlust attack speed bonus is constant (it is not normally), and the second being that Lucian is critting 100% of the time.

DrMundo item 3065 item 3143 item 3742 item 3047 item 3075 item 3512

Runes that Matter: x9 seals of armor, x3 quints of HP regen Masteries that Matter: Unyielding, Tough Skin, Veterans Scars, Perseverance (we shall assume that mundo is not below 20% max health)

Lucian Total AD at 18: 100 + 65 + 40 + 65 + 65 + 8.5 = 343.5 Lucian Total attack speed: [(0.56 + 0.20 + 0.14 + 0.30 + 0.40 + 0.04) x 0.638] + 0.638 = 1.68432

Total damage over 10 seconds:

1.68432 x 10 x 343.5 x 2.5 + 1.68432 x 10 x 343.5 x 2.5 x (0.05 + .15) = 17356.9176

Mundo:

Total health: 2096 + 600 + 450 + 500 + [(2096 + 600 + 450 + 500) x .04] = 3791.84

Total health regeneration (with ult) over 10 seconds: (0.05 x 3791.84 x 10) + (20.5 + 8.1) x (1.5 + 0.5 + 1.25) x 2 + (20.5 + 8.1) x 2 + (0.003 x 3791.84) x 10 + [(0.05 x 3791.84 x 10) + (20.5 + 8.1) x (1.5 + 0.5 + 1.25) x 2 + (20.5 + 8.1) x 2 + (0.003 x 3791.84) x 10] x 0.20 = 3791.5128

Base Armor: 86.4

Bonus Armor: 9 + 60 + 100 + 50 + 60 + 30 + (9 + 60 + 100 + 50 + 60 + 30) x 0.06 = 263.94

Total Effective Armor: 86.4 + 263.94 - (263.94 x .40) - (86.4 + 263.94) x 0.07 = 220.2402

Damage multiplier to lucian: 100 / (100 + 220.2402) = 0.312265606

Total Damage received by mundo: [(17356.9176 - 2) - (17356.9176 - 2) x .10] x 0.312265606 = 4877.409475

Total Damage done to Mundo accounting for regeneration: 4877.409475 - 3791.5128 = 1085.896675 (this is the damage that "sticks")

Now then, let us take that same exact setup, and with Mortal reminder (A.K.A. executioners calling) instead of Lord Dominicks Regards:

Lucian's Damage: 1.68432 x 10 x 343.5 x 2.5 + 1.68432 x 10 x 343.5 x 0.05 x 2.5 = 15187.3029 BEFORE RESISTANCES

Mundo's Total health regeneration over 10 seconds: 3791.5128 - 3791.5128 x .40 = 2274.90768

Total Damage recieved by mundo: [(15187.3029 - 2) - (15187.3029 - 2) x .10] x 0.312265606 = 4267.663031

Total damage done to mundo accounting for regeneration: 4267.663031 - 2274.90768 = 1992.755351

You can see that you are technically dealing more damage with item 3036 but after accounting for Mundo's rather insane sustain you can clearly see that item 3033 wins the day.

**Small edit: Please, if you spot any math errors, let me know (extra kudos if you fix them for me lol), math while sleep deprived generally doesn't mix xD

TLDR: Executioners Calling ( item 3123 ) is significantly more effective at countering DrMundo than Giant Slayer item 3034 ).

CoolKnightSTNov 19, 20153 votes

With full build you should easy been able to kill Mundo. The problem is this:

Midgame: , you aint going to kill tanks with that build. ER is just a must so adc's want to build it to kill squishies
Midgame later: it start to become easyer. IE is decent against Mundo.
Lategame: mundo can be killed pretty easy

Here's the problem: Games never reach the lategame. In the phase the game is going now. You really have to build item 3123 sooner. It only cost 800 gold. You should get it before IE. You won't be able to kill him fast but you still can kill him.

But what's the issue, it's just a lot easyer to just ignite the Mundo. That's why you don't see a lot of people actualy build it. This makes item 3036 just better on them despite the GW on item 3033 .

Now with the Crit mastery hotfix we will finaly see item 3153 again & that will have a big effect on mundo players. The reason why we didn't saw it before is that adc's litterly used crit as replacement for lifesteal. Now they can't do that anymore.

The patch is out, just test it again.

balbraakselNov 18, 20152 votes

What would be best against a Mundo?

I'd think: item 3031 item 3046 item 3812 item 3033 item 3072

The LovelessNov 18, 20155 votes

I wouldn't know, but I'd think you need something to attack him faster and also outheal him. Maybe substitute DD for bork(?)

balbraakselNov 18, 20154 votes

With a BotRK I'd probably go for item 3153 item 3046 item 3072 item 3033 item 3085 . So substituting DD for BotRK and IE with RH. Is that a good idea then?

The LovelessNov 18, 20153 votes

RH or IE works, yeah. RH definitely seems better if it's more than Mundo you have to tank-bust. Then again, not every adc can make the best of RH.

That said, depending on whether your team peels good or not, and how many gap closing nukers the enemy has, you may want Merc's instead of Greaves. The tenacity will help cut down on Mundo's slow, if he ever hits you with his cleavers.

balbraakselNov 18, 20154 votes

Or include Mercurial Scimitar? item 3006 item 3153 item 3046 item 3033 item 3139 item 3085 The item does fit in well I think. Also usually you can simply dodge the Infected Cleaver from long range and in close range the passive from kicks in, then you still have the active from as backup.

What do you think? :) I personally really wouldn't want to lose the synergy of attack speed from the item 3006 with item 3153 .

The LovelessNov 18, 20152 votes

I forgot Scimitar gives lifesteal now lol. That works as a sustain/big AD item too.

About dodging cleavers: PD's passive kicks in when within 500 range of an enemy champion, so you'd have to be dangerously close to Mundo to get it to kick in. That's well below every adc's attack range, outside of Graves.

HAIL WHYDRANov 19, 20151 votes

IIRC, Lucian has a 500. I cant remember other champions ether. I think Sivir has a 500 too.

BIFFNov 18, 20151 votes

item 3031 item 3036 item 3033 item 3153 item 3812 item 3006

GGEZ M9. -Vayne (Edit: 5.22 every ADC)

FUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuu..... -Every tank (Edit: 5.22 Mundo)

You have been slain -Summoners Rift Announcer

runedaraNov 18, 20152 votes

Think you would get the GW one due to the fact the other doesn't increase true damage. But I don't know for sure.

SlashStrikerNov 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What would be best against a Mundo?

I'd think:

item 3153 item 3033 just a theory a lol theory

Lux MagusNov 18, 20151 votes

item 3033 ? I don't understand the dilemma....

Axis the DragonNov 18, 20157 votes

He's implying Bronze ADCs don't even know the item exists

Need Gold 4 TentNov 19, 20151 votes

That's because Mundo (in their opinion) doesn't really "kill" people. I mean he does get fed but it's more of because he's there burning people for a good 10 seconds sticking to them like glue.

These ADC are scared of the tanky champs that dive in, CC them and kill them. Those are usually weaker to LDR than Mortal. Enter WW, and every single ADC I play against builds a QSS + Mortal Reminder.