items are the reason juggernauts are "stat check" champions*

Mens Hair Club··4 votes·543 views

because instead of having items that offer us options and ways to itemize to overcome weaknesses, we get stats. lots and lots of raw stats. juggs remain the only group of champs who has no itemization to help them overcome key faults in their kits; when you give them nothing but lots and lots of stats, do you expect them to do anything but try to hit you with those stats?

the nature of a juggernaut kit is and will probably always be very limited; they are immobile, so long reaching dashes and hopping over walls are out of the question; they are melee, which means they'll usually have low sphere of influence (Illaoi breaks this rule); and they are low utility**, which means they get damage. despite this, they manage to be the most unique and varied group, but they will always struggle with the way league handles their items, which is to give them... lots and lots of raw stats. the solution to pulling them away from "i'm just going to run at you, hope i can get to you past all your myriad CCs, and hit you with my stats" should therefore be towards new items that let them trade stat efficiency for overcoming weaknesses (and their two biggest weaknesses are lack of initiation and crowd control, so the items I suggest will try to solve that.)

Some suggestions for items for either purpose;

item A item 3140 + item 3052 %X base AD +Y Magic Resist +Z Health Active: Cleanse CC and become Unstoppable for 3 seconds, reducing you to your base movement speed (MS boosts will not apply to you, excluding boots) and putting non ultimate dash and blink spells on twice the cooldown (Flash excluded)

This item would be good for juggernauts almost exclusively; in exchange for letting you ignore CC for a few seconds, you remove the ability to speed up for those 3 seconds (a death sentence for ranged ADCs and squishy melee champions) and punishes you quite heavily if you buy it as a mobile champion by leaving you without your mobility for a potentially very long time. Most tanks would not see very good use of it due to stats being allocated to attack damage, which few of them scale with. Even juggernauts would face trade-offs, as they would not benefit from the MS gained from Stormraider's, Black Cleaver, etc. So reducing yourself to your base speed plus whatever boots you have gives the enemy team time to disengage from you to wait out your mini-Olaf ult.

item B item 3052 + ??? any stats you deem appropriate

Active: Causes you to leap a large distance in any direction over 2 seconds and deal damage equal to a value of your base AD when landing. Disabled for 5 seconds while taking or receiving damage from champions.

Another item that lets them do what they want to do; get into the fray. It's inspired by Blink Dagger, but I think a slower, telegraphed 'leaping' animation would be much more fitting for a class that's all about being big and being noticed rather than teleporting into you. It would not be appealing on champions who already have lots of mobility and would rather have an item with superior stats, and it is not a good item for escaping a conflict unless you manage to avoid damage for 5 seconds.

I understand that both of these items are fairly powerful in their own right. Some juggernauts (and divers) may become too strong, but I am a firm believer that these items would do a lot to change the class for the better, and offer much-needed item variance.

thanks for reading, let me know what you think.

* only three juggernauts are entirely stat-check champions and 2 of them are two of the worst champions in the game right now. the rest of them besides shyvana all have varying degrees of nuance to their gameplay and are very healthy designs

** 'low utility' is a bit dishonest; in my opinion juggernauts have some of the most reasonable utility especially for a carry class, and they have very unique non-damage contributions to their team that their peers don't intrude on. the same can no longer be said for many tanks and has never been true for classical supports.

21 Comments

Requiemsfire2 votes

Item A is utterly busted

Mens Hair Club1 votes

how's that?

i realize i worded it poorly, if the dash thing is what bothers you, too. i meant to say it puts any non-ult mobility you've got on full cooldown , and then doubles that cooldown.

Eedat1 votes

refreshing and doubling the cooldown of all non-ultimate dash and blink spells (Flash excluded.)

How is this a Juggernaut item again? Didn't you just get done telling us that they have no mobility?

That just screams to be abused by other class. You know, ones that actually have dashes

Mens Hair Club1 votes

putting your dash back on full cooldown and then doubling it is screaming for abuse?

Eedat1 votes

How is this a Juggernaut item again? Didn't you just get done telling us that they have no mobility?

????

Mens Hair Club1 votes

? it's a disincentive for mobile champions. juggernauts, who have no mobility as you've aptly stated, don't need to worry about that effect, bar illaoi since her W is considered one.

again, given the punishment for using it if you have mobility, how would this be an item that screams for abuse?

Eedat1 votes

Oh, I think I get it. The wording on it makes it sound like you can use a dash then pop that thing to 'refresh' it and use it a second time at a cost of double CD

PopcornBunni1 votes

Or they build item 3071 and steal 1000 - 3000 gold from the enemy tank with no item to counter it

Mens Hair Club2 votes

i have no problem with cleaver being changed

i've always felt riot went about adding armor pen/shred the wrong way and that it should be restricted to windows of power rather than permanently ignoring a flat amount or a % of armor

Hayaishi21 votes

No it isn't.

It's because most of them are horrible by design. Darius gets crippled by slows, that is not an itemization problem. They are only useful if they have time to combo their enemy in melee range yet they have no gapclosers or hard CC.

Mens Hair Club2 votes

no hard CC is debatable, volibear, darius, udyr and urgot have one.

comboing you in melee range isn't a problem for them, juggernauts that aren't Garen have no real issue sticking to people. their problem is having a ridiculously hard time getting to the area where they can be a threat. their biggest design flaw is that they're very heavily weighted towards shitting on other melee champions (particularly tanks) when played well but they don't get many opportunities to go in on backlines unless they're being mopped up or they misstep.

yet they have no gapclosers

which is what half of my thread suggests in an item, lol

Hayaishi21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mens Hair Club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=neMK9hUo,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-06T05:31:00.950+0000)

no hard CC is debatable, volibear, darius, udyr and urgot have one.

comboing you in melee range isn't a problem for them, juggernauts that aren't Garen have no real issue sticking to people. their problem is having a ridiculously hard time getting to the area where they can be a threat. their biggest design flaw is that they're very heavily weighted towards shitting on other melee champions (particularly tanks) when played well but they don't get many opportunities to go in on backlines unless they're being mopped up or they misstep.

which is what half of my thread suggests in an item, lol

Their "gapclosers" which are glorified movement speed buffs and a melee range pull in case of Darius all get invalidated by a single CC.

I have never been afraid of a juggernaut, probably because i main ADC, but juggernauts feel like cannon fodder to me.

PopcornBunni1 votes

Typing this while playing against Illaoi

Waiting under my turret for 15 minutes so I can play league of legends for 8 seconds.

Mens Hair Club2 votes

sorry you can't play better

Penns1 votes

i like item a, i can reset my e hehe

Mens Hair Club2 votes

>:( it's not that reeee

Penns1 votes

:( useless then gimme shadow and ethereal blade lel

Ðelofasht1 votes

Your suggestion for the CC immunity active is basically what I posted in another thread not too long back, but I think the duration is too long, 3 seconds is a LONG time in a teamfight. I think 1 second is more than enough, and because it should be used somewhat frequently, both in teamfights and in skirmishes, it should have a really low cooldown. The reduction to base movespeed was something I suggested in my thread as well, either way the item would need a very visible indicator representing that they are unstoppable for the duration (so enemies could respond to the visual information and know they need to back off until the effect wears off).

The engage tool is nice, and either of the items would be welcome, but mobility on a juggernaut, even channeled charge up time could end up being considered too strong. Maybe if it could be blocked like Urgot or Galio's dash attack. . . or knocked aside during it. Either way it could end up opening the door for a lot of unnecessary nerfs to the class as a whole.

I liked the idea of unstoppable on a short CD that Ornn has and thought it would be better served on a Juggernaut, hence the suggestion I had made for the item originally.

Mens Hair Club2 votes

i went for 3 because CC is ridiculous these days. 2 might be a good middle ground.

the other item imo is a necessity to make juggs an actual threat and not made worthless by a front line, juggs have too little influence to threaten squishies with so they can use this item for flanks or initiating as long as they aren't hit first

Poske1 votes

Nope their kit is

Garen has dull kit Morde has dull kit Darius has dull kit skarner has dull kit Nasus has dull kit

Why cant they be more mechanical like riven we ll never know..

Mens Hair Club2 votes

because they can't be mechanical. being immobile and melee means you should be relatively simple. to that end Darius has a great kit, probably one of the best jugg designs, and Garen is better than he used to be. Nasus and Skarner could use more depth for sure

and to me they're way more interesting than riven. i don't really care for riven buttonmashing

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