warwick is basically a juggernaut with 2 hard CCs

Mens Hair Club·Sep 4, 2017·11 votes·1,182 views

why?

he needs nothing except for damage and yet he's got damage reduction (on top of an already tank heavy build and an assload of sustain) and an AOE fear that he can chain with a suppression (that's tied to a dash). guarantee when this dumb hypercarry/ardent support meta passes he's going to be a massive pain in the ass; as it is he's one of few bruisers who manages to be viable/strong despite the current meta

this guy's being slept on hard right now

42 Comments

DeathBurstSep 4, 201713 votes

Warwick durability/sustain is amazing, but his damage is far inferior to the damage from any real Juggernaut. Darius, Illaoi, Yorick, Olaf, etc. all deal much more damage than Warwick. He has more CC, but less damage.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

you got damage charts for this?

DeathBurstSep 4, 20174 votes

Hum, we can try to have a look at OP.GG stats, it's not perfect but that's the best we have, as far as I know.

Warwick: 12666 damage dealt.
Darius: 16579.
Illaoi: 21851.
Nasus: 18392.
Garen: 18395.
Yorick: 20350.
Olaf: 18700 or 14968 depending on lane.
Mundo: 19402 or 16492.

So yeah, Warwick is clearly dealing less damage.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

would upvote but i'm not allowed to

ty, wick still op though

nice tableSep 5, 20171 votes

this is mostly due to the fact that rest of the juggernauts lane while warwick jungles.

Mens Hair ClubSep 5, 20171 votes

olaf is meta jungle

DeathBurstSep 5, 20171 votes

Olaf and Mundo have two numbers because they are played both Top and Jungle. They still deal more damage than Warwick, even when Jungling.

EschetonSep 5, 20171 votes

And this is all based on the same number of minutes?

DeathBurstSep 5, 20171 votes

Probably not. I did say it wasn't perfect, but I don't have more time to look into it more deeply. And since the overwhelming domination of ALL Juggernauts I checked compared to Warwick, I'm pretty confident my initial statement is true.

EschetonSep 5, 20171 votes

Given how he is this strange dualist tank diver jungler, you expect him to gank early (1v1 dmg at low lvl, so low overal dmg), get lanes ahead and then use his tanky nature to force early wins by pushing strong grouping. He probably deals more damage in games he loses than in games he wins.

DeathBurstSep 5, 20171 votes

Mundo or Olaf still deal much more damage than him, even when Jungling. "Warwick does not deal as much damage than Juggernauts" is a pretty safe statement.

AmazoXSep 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mens Hair Club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UKtbvego,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-04T17:25:42.096+0000)

you got damage charts for this?

Its fucking obvious as hell, No need for damage charts.

MuzétSep 4, 20176 votes

Warwick isn't a juggernaut but a diver. He has a dash, huge move speed boost. Those aren't in the kit of any juggernaut (specially number one). Pretty sure that (except Shyvana) none of the juggernaut as a dash even tho they still have a way to disable their opponent (usually slows)

deoje299Sep 4, 20171 votes

Illaoi has a targeted dash on her w, and Darius has one on his ult.

MuzétSep 4, 20171 votes

Illaoi even tho it's technically a dash, it isn't large enough to be a real one. (350 it just above Rakan's AA range). Same goes for Darius. You can't compare a targeted short range "dash" to something like Shyvana's ult (which is the real dash) or Malphite, Leblanc etc...

deoje299Sep 5, 20171 votes

Get a rapidfire cannon to make it bigger xD

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20172 votes

MS boosts are actually pretty common on juggernauts, and his dash is a straight lunge that can be body blocked, unlike other divers who can usually bypass a front line (Camille, Vi, Hecarim, J4) Warwick has to flank or pick you off if you step out of position in order to jump on the ADC

Outside of his dash Warwick plays like a juggernaut, IMO, and it's a little silly how many things he's got going for him

MuzétSep 4, 20178 votes

He's not a juggernaut. He's a diver. That's like Irelia, Wukong or Nocturne. Of course you want to go on squishy. Whereas Juggernaut just want to be in the middle of everything and hit around. Diver are more focused (Just like the ones you quoted) They want to get rid of the back line first then take care of what's left.

Juggernauts tank a lot more than divers. But divers still have tool but to a lesser extent compared to juggernauts.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

that's why i said "basically" and not "he is a juggernaut"

and no, juggernauts don't usually tank more than warwick, because they don't have ~~30% damage reduction (and the one who does doesn't have combat healing) ~~ 55% damage reduction

Chembaron YamadaSep 4, 20171 votes

The point is: Juggernauts exceed at both, durability and damage, at the same time. You can build damage on Warwick and deal the same damage like a juggernaut, or build tank (like most people do) and be as durable as a juggernaut.

But Warwick has to decide, juggernauts have both at the same time.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

55% DR for a couple seconds + sustain means he's gonna be as durable as a juggernaut unless you're going full glass, which only happens with AP wick.

and any other damage items WW would want have either half or resists on them item 3078 or item 3091 so I don't see what exactly he's giving up; not like either of those are necessary when playing as and against WW he's able to top damage charts with nothing but titanic (which, to be fair, is inflated somewhat by Q being high % damage when fighting tanky targets)

given that he's got very good stats right now i don't see what exactly he's really giving up, he's inarguably a much better champion than most juggs (mord, cho, and maybe singed are stronger), but is that a problem of him doing too much or juggernauts having too little?

nice tableSep 5, 20171 votes

warwick topping damage charts? in what world though, i have been playing a lot of warwick and this only happens when both teams are horrible.

GelsominoKillerSep 4, 20171 votes

He is a diver, there is absolutely no contest on this.

He just plays like one, always trying to get onto the backline, applying his damage and CCs.

He is durable but quite far from a tank, or even a Juggernaut.

He deals a good amount of damage early on, but falls off later.

Hayaishi2Sep 4, 20173 votes

An actually good juggernaut heaven forbid.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20173 votes

it just annoys me as a juggernaut main. actual juggernauts have far less going for them; they lack the CC and gapclosing power that warwick does, they're usually forced to play a minigame to optimize their damage while Warwick just has to click on you, and they certainly don't have global pressure like he sometimes does

I guess you could say it's compensation for Warwick being all-melee but then what about Garen Volibear Udyr who don't have NEARLY the same level of durability or utility Warwick offers

nice tableSep 4, 20171 votes

as someone that has played a shitload of all of these i can tell you that garen is the most tankish out of the 4 late game, voli is the most tankish early, warwick in a 1v1 and udyr in small skirmishes. not really fair to call any of them "more durable" than the others but if i had to it would most likely be garen.

also warwick actually likes the current meta as it is very easy for him to gank the bottom lane and can flash fear ult late game for the supports n adcs, so i don't think he will be getting more out of control than he already is any time soon.

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

voli and udyr both need enormous buffs atm. garen could be better but i fear he'd lose his most defining traits if riot wants to rework him again

ww is just ridiculous though

nice tableSep 4, 20171 votes

i mean yeah ww is a shitload better than the other 3 but not really more tankish.

Jackom1Sep 4, 20172 votes

He's a diver sure, but you need to buy cinderhulk on him, or your clears will be awful at all stages of the game. Still, while he consistent with a simple tank build + titanic, try building cinder + titanic + triforce + wit's end + deadman or righteous glory: you lose tankyiness but it's way scarier and more fun to play. Ofc it's more risky than going full tank, but it pays.

waiting for WoWSep 4, 20171 votes

The only issue I have with Warwick is how he is almost immune to being counter jungled because of how quickly he can clear camps, and how healthy he is after clearing camps. If you know what you're doing with WW you can remain at full HP at all times while other junglers are tuned to take a ton of damage during their early clears.

Chembaron YamadaSep 4, 20171 votes

It's true that his clear is healthy. That is totally intended. He is supposed to be the beginner jungler, a champion you can learn that role with. His clear is supposed to be healthy so new players don't have to be so scared of getting executed in the jungle because they are unexperienced.

But I never really considered his clear as fast. ô.o

nice tableSep 5, 20171 votes

more often than not you get tiamat on your first back which makes your clears quite fast indeed

GelsominoKillerSep 4, 20171 votes

Extremely healthy clears are for sure one of Warwick's strengths, albeit an explicitly intended one. I don't think it is something to be removed.

KyunseiSep 4, 20171 votes

Agree. WW feel too strong currently, at least compared to most jungler. But once compared to Sejuani or Maokai, you feel like he's balanced.

FlyingRoboticCowSep 4, 20171 votes

call me when hes as bad as Chogath

JackMcSnipeyzSep 4, 20171 votes

he's a diver, all his abilities are single target damage and his only gapcloser is his ult which also snares him so in a teamfight it's a risk reward ability. his movespeed is telegraphed and you always know when he's haunting you or when he gets movespeed towards you. he's not a juggernaut, he's a diver. Juggernauts excel at teamfights they can reach with loads of AoE damage and high ability damage, ww isnt like that and is a better duelist than a teamfighter

Mens Hair ClubSep 4, 20171 votes

Juggernauts excel at teamfights

not really, most juggernauts want to split push. the only ones who enjoy teamfighting are Darius and Mord (and mord likes it because he replaces the ADC and gets lots of peel from his support), and Olaf only because he's really good at diving ADCs and shitting on them

Illaoi, Urgot, and Yorick -- the newest juggernauts -- would rather occupy the side lanes and 1v1 or 1vX people in Illaoi's case, because they do not have the tools required to teamfight given their limitations as immobile melee champions. Same for Garen, and Singed if you want to put him in this subgroup but he's kind of his own champion

The DeckownerSep 4, 20171 votes

warwick is ~~basically~~ a juggernaut with 2 hard CCs and two gapclosers

FTFY

Hexs FortuneSep 4, 20171 votes

Grievous wounds strips away Warwick's durability. If anything is being slept on its item 3123

Meep ManSep 4, 20171 votes

I still fear a Darius, Garen, and Mordekaiser up close a lot more than Warwick, so I will have to disagree. Warwick is a threat, of course, but true Juggernauts deal a ton more AoE damage and pack a ton more base damage outside of the niche ones (see Yorick and Urgot). Warwick is more about locking down a single target, while Juggernauts can handle a crowd as long as they can reach the crowd of course.

Warwick is a Diver, which are more related to single target focused subclasses like Assassins and Burst Mages. Juggernauts are more AoE-focused and are more related to subclasses like Battle Mages and Vanguards.

DragonSheaSep 4, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mens Hair Club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UKtbvego,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-04T14:55:37.405+0000)

why?

he needs nothing except for damage and yet he's got damage reduction (on top of an already tank heavy build and an assload of sustain) and an AOE fear that he can chain with a suppression (that's tied to a dash). guarantee when this dumb hypercarry/ardent support meta passes he's going to be a massive pain in the ass; as it is he's one of few bruisers who manages to be viable/strong despite the current meta

this guy's being slept on hard right now

Funny enough WW is a bit of a jugg. He falls into the same category of juggernaut type divers, like Renekton Irelia Hecarim and maybe Camille feeling like a jugg but with more mobility.

0 HogapuSep 4, 20171 votes

The thing I hate the most is that you cannot play your lane when you face a Warwick. If you take trades and make your opponent 30%hp while you are 40%, this will trigger his W passive and you now are a free kill.

His only presence has too much impact, not even talking of the CC he brings and his sustainability in teamfights.