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Why was Veigar's ultimate changed into a ranged Garen ult?

BearExperiment·Jul 1, 2016·2 votes·1,852 views

I took about a year long break from this game. Overall most of the changes are understandable to me. The Malzahar "remake.." was a tough pill to swallow for me, but at least he was still a unique champion after the fact. I might not like him as much, but I can understand WHY they did what they did.

Veigar's ultimate change?.. That is depressing it's so unoriginal. There are enough execute moves in this game. Yes 80% of opponents AP was really strong, but it was UNIQUE. "Oh, but BearExperiment, they could just pick something that didn't use AP." OK so if you absolutely have to make him useful against every type of champion (like a niche is a bad thing) you can still do it and keep the AP scaling. It could just take the higher value between say 60% of a targets ability power OR dmg based off % missing health.

Even going back to the original ultimate instead of doing damage based on your targets ability power is a lot more interesting. Deal dmg based on the targets total mana OR % missing health if they have 0 current mana.

What an uninspired change.

32 Comments

The Yetii RiderJul 1, 20164 votes

The point of the change was to force Veigar to actually deal damage to a target before bursting them down in one shot.

With the original Veigar Primordial Burst, he could literally right click on someone and they would explode. 2000 magic damage, instantly, with one click. Would murder any support.

Now, Veigar's ultimate works as a finisher. He actually has to land a few Qs and Ws before he can burst someone. Because he's not an assassin.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20162 votes

O great, another finisher. The point was that veigar was supposed to have low range, have no reliable escape, and be really squishy to compensate for having the best nuke in the game. Just remove the ability instead of parading its corpse around like a dirty old puppet.

The Yetii RiderJul 1, 20161 votes

It IS the best nuke in the game

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nc1c4tR8,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-01T03:31:30.843+0000)

It IS the best nuke in the game

nope.. syndra's ult still does more dmg overall.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

And you aren't forced into using it exclusively on targets who are almost dead.

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And you aren't forced into using it exclusively on targets who are almost dead.

.. lol , you obviously don't play syndra.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

.. lol , you obviously don't play syndra.

Obviously you try to finish your kill with it. You don't have to play Syndra to know that.

There is nothing about the way it deals dmg that you are forced to use it only to finish a kill since there is no dmg scaling off missing health like Veigar's ultimate. There is no catch.

The Yetii RiderJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

nope.. syndra's ult still does more dmg overall.

If she had enough spheres. Veigar will have more AP than her at any given point in the game, and Syndra takes longer to set up her damage. Veigar can just fire and forget across a wall if someone has taken damage from Baron or a Jinx rocket.

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nc1c4tR8,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-07-01T03:38:45.357+0000)

If she had enough spheres. Veigar will have more AP than her at any given point in the game, and Syndra takes longer to set up her damage. Veigar can just fire and forget across a wall if someone has taken damage from Baron or a Jinx rocket.

Were not arguing about how much skill a champ takes, were talking about overall dmg which syndra would have.

The Yetii RiderJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Were not arguing about how much skill a champ takes, were talking about overall dmg which syndra would have.

I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking about time. Syndra is a pick mage. She needs to land a stun and probably a Q in order to get her ultimate off at enough power to kill someone. Veigar is a burst mage. He literally needs to press R in order to nuke someone for 75+% of their health.

Okay so if Syndra has 7 spheres she deals 1260+140% AP to a target. If Veigar hits someone with his ult when they are at low health, he deals 650+150% AP to his target. So in the best case scenario, if Syndra has 600 AP she deals 2100 magic damage to her target. Veigar breaks even with that at 1000 AP, and he only needs to click one button.

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nc1c4tR8,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-01T04:05:17.219+0000)

I'm not talking about skill, I'm talking about time. Syndra is a pick mage. She needs to land a stun and probably a Q in order to get her ultimate off at enough power to kill someone. Veigar is a burst mage. He literally needs to press R in order to nuke someone for 75+% of their health.

Okay so if Syndra has 7 spheres she deals 1260+140% AP to a target. If Veigar hits someone with his ult when they are at low health, he deals 650+150% AP to his target. So in the best case scenario, if Syndra has 600 AP she deals 2100 magic damage to her target. Veigar breaks even with that at 1000 AP, and he only needs to click one button.

If your skilled enough.. you shouldn't have to waste time putting your balls to the floor, they should already be there if a fight breaks out.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

IT IS A RANGED GAREN ULTIMATE.

The Yetii RiderJul 1, 20162 votes

You DO realize Demacian Justice is a ranged ability, right? Like, Garen's ult is a "ranged Garen ult"

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

If you want to call that range, sure. It is a more ranged Garen ult, if that tickles your fancy.

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If you want to call that range, sure. It is a more ranged Garen ult, if that tickles your fancy.

It is actually a ranged ability.. you don't have to be in melee range to cast it. So yes we will call it a ranged ability.

And if your going with the argument "its higher ranged" then your also saying all adc's should have the same range.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It is actually a ranged ability.. you don't have to be in melee range to cast it. So yes we will call it a ranged ability.

And if your going with the argument "its higher ranged" then your also saying all adc's should have the same range.

You like to nitpick sentence structure a lot. I literally just acknowledged that it is a ranged ability. You KNOW what I am talking about. Obviously one ability has more range than the other. Point out obvious facts like I'm not aware and then start jamming off with your little corrections that only a horses ass wouldn't be aware of.

WTF is your logic about the ADC's that's totally irrelevant to anything. CrazyFight is a good username for you.

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You like to nitpick sentence structure a lot. You KNOW what I am talking about. Obviously one ability has more range than the other. Point out obvious facts like I'm not aware and then start jamming off with your cute little corrections.

WTF is your logic about the ADC's that's totally irrelevant to anything. CrazyFight is a good username for you.

1: Its CrazFight 2: Maybe right better sentence structures so I cant nitpick and make corrections (Cause god do you make a lot mistakes. 3: Hi

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

1: Its CrazFight 2: Maybe right better sentence structures so I cant nitpick and make corrections (Cause god do you make a lot mistakes. 3: Hi

1: You are a waste of time 2: You add nothing intelligent to any conversation

CrazFight Jul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

1: You are a waste of time

Don't start "1." bullet marks unless you are going to create more bullet marks. Common sense man.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Don't start "1." bullet marks unless you are going to create more bullet marks. Common sense man.

I added a 2nd point that you just demonstrated here. Added nothing intelligent or witty. Goodbye strange internet warrior.

BeatzBoyFTWJul 1, 20161 votes

Talk about irony...

YOU LOST LMAOJul 1, 20161 votes

did you post this because of me? we q'd in ranked and I beat you 13-2. you have the same exact name.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20162 votes

I have played 3 times since I have come back and they were custom or normal games with friends, so you definitely did not. You can just check your match history lol

My post is about how Veigar's ultimate is boring, not about how he's not as good anymore, or what ever you were thinking.

A little PeepoJul 1, 20161 votes

I'm going to assume because veigar ult was just too counter productive if anything, in the sense that it punished ap champs for building massive ap even if they won lane. In a way it wasn't much of a problem but i guess it also was a problem for veigar in terms of bursting a non ap user. With the changes I guess his ult was turned into a garen like execute and there are some pros and cons to that as well. That's just my five cents on why riot did what they did to him.

But in the long run I still feel veigar is still a unique pick since no champ in game gains ap from harassing you. Even his stun is pretty unique but I guess veigar mains would see it differently since I've hardly played the champ at all.

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm going to assume because veigar ult was just too counter productive if anything, in the sense that it punished ap champs for building massive ap even if they won lane. In a way it wasn't much of a problem but i guess it also was a problem for veigar in terms of bursting a non ap user. With the changes I guess his ult was turned into a garen like execute and there are some pros and cons to that as well. That's just my five cents on why riot did what they did to him.

But in the long run I still feel veigar is still a unique pick since no champ in game gains ap from harassing you. Even his stun is pretty unique but I guess veigar mains would see it differently since I've hardly played the champ at all.

They just needed it to not use so much of the targets AP and more form Veigars own AP. It used to be based oif the targets mana and use 1.8 of Veigars AP. Even when the target didn't use mana, that was almost double your AP in dmg still coming their way.

Just go with like 40-60% of their AP instead of 80% and increase Veigars personal AP scaling.

I personally see nothing wrong with Veigars niche as an anti mage. He has enough draw backs to justify having the biggest nuke in the game. They could have been a lot more creative with this change is my problem.

A little PeepoJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

They just needed it to not use so much of the targets AP and more form Veigars own AP. It used to be based oif the targets mana and use 1.8 of Veigars AP. Even when the target didn't use mana, that was almost double your AP in dmg still coming their way.

Just go with like 40-60% of their AP instead of 80% and increase Veigars personal AP scaling.

I personally see nothing wrong with Veigars niche as an anti mage. He has enough draw backs to justify having the biggest nuke in the game. They could have been a lot more creative with this change is my problem.

Well "unique" in this game would be deemed OP because every champion has been dulled out to some point. Karma was a really unique champion but now not so much and same goes to pretty much every other champion changed. I'm just afraid of what they may end up doing to yorick, ww and the assassins in the upcoming changes (looking at fizz more than anything)

Slack KingJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I took about a year long break from this game. Overall most of the changes are understandable to me. The Malzahar "remake.." was a tough pill to swallow for me, but at least he was still a unique champion after the fact. I might not like him as much, but I can understand WHY they did what they did.

Veigar's ultimate change?.. That is depressing it's so unoriginal. There are enough execute moves in this game. Yes 80% of opponents AP was really strong, but it was UNIQUE. "Oh, but BearExperiment, they could just pick something that didn't use AP." OK so if you absolutely have to make him useful against every type of champion (like a niche is a bad thing) you can still do it and keep the AP scaling. It could just take the higher value between say 60% of a targets ability power OR dmg based off % missing health.

Even going back to the original ultimate instead of doing damage based on your targets ability power is a lot more interesting. Deal dmg based on the targets total mana OR % missing health if they have 0 current mana.

What an uninspired change.

Because it made it so being AP wasnt punishment when a Veigar was in the game. Oh youre a mage, to bad veigar pushed r and you auto died.

Garen also can tank through veigars damage, silence him. Spin. Win. Ult. Walk away with 15 hp and be back at 100% in about 20 seconds

BearExperimentJul 1, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slack Attack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nc1c4tR8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-01T03:39:26.432+0000)

Because it made it so being AP wasnt punishment when a was in the game. Oh youre a mage, to bad veigar pushed r and you auto died.

Garen also can tank through veigars damage, silence him. Spin. Win. Ult. Walk away with 15 hp and be back at 100% in about 20 seconds

I don't understand why League of Legends players think there is something wrong with being a counter to AP picks.

Slack KingJul 1, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand why League of Legends players think there is something wrong with being a counter to AP picks.

You misunderstand, there is counter. And there is someone who makes you a hazard to yourself Galio is a mage counter Veigar Punished you completely for being a mage, with almost no counterplay other than item 3157 item 3102 You building items to do your job as a mage would just get thrown right back in your face

AlwaysByMySideJul 1, 20161 votes

Veigar's R was changed to be healthier. The one he had before was incredibly toxic and severely punished you simply for doing well.

Fuck his old ult.

The Last BalladJul 1, 20161 votes

It was changed because they thought that punishing your enemy for building ap was unfun to play against. "Oh, you are ahead by 13/0/- and have massive amounts of ap, while I just reached lvl 6 with 0/7/-? DEATH!" How was that fair? The ult punished mid laners for doing well and keeping you down(and for building their main damage stat) and you could just kill them for that. Not to mention it soft limited it to ap mid laners and ap supports, as most of the time you wouldn't have enough damage to kill adc's in one shot. Now it is more universal, but squishies are more appealing as targets.

And Veigar's ult is not like Garen's, because Garen's scales off of 40% of the target's missing health, while Veigar's just gets it's damage multiplied at bench marks of the opponent's health. Not to mention Garen's ult can do true damage under specific circumstances...

And Veigar's nich is not "anti-mage" that is Kassadin 's nich(or at least it would be, if he functioned correctly). Veigar's is "infinitely-scaling-mid-lane-hyper-carry". So there's that.

QuephaJul 1, 20161 votes

Strategically unique, but very boring in terms of gameplay.

"Me press R, me get kill" is not good for the game, even if it requires that you counterpicked a champion who prefers the arbitrary damage stat with a P in it instead of the arbitrary damage stat with a D in it.

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