Toxicity - maybe this time you'll LISTEN just a little and YOU can improve

woodvsmurph··1 votes·1,156 views

I'm in a tough 50/50 snowball matchup. I'm winning but barely and it's a bit dangerous because I'm in easy kill threat range if I push to the other guy's tower which my champ naturally does at some point. But because it's a 20% chance that I get a competent jg who will actually visit toplane before 20+ min into game when the lane is already decided, I go out of my way to NOT last-hit solo kill my opponent. No, to THANK my jg for actually coming, I literally gift him a kill that requires him to land a single aa as graves.

I later outplay just the type of gank I feared most... being shoved to the other guy's tower w/o ult up and having a fed rammus come to kill me. I start running but get 2v1 chain cc'd by him and darius about 2/3 of way to my tower. I manage to make it out and due to good collapse from graves and my mid, they net 2 easy kills - yes, 2 EASY kills - because I'd 1v2 gotten both opponents to around 30% hp and blown their flashes so that they could lock me down before I escaped to tower.

Despite this and eeking out small gains to put myself ahead 1v1 vs a talented opponent with minimal help from my team (2 "ganks" is more than usual for me, but not unusual for toplaners in general), I have a near-inting bot lane, jg isn't being proactive or making a cs advantage farming while rammus ganks (pretty bad for graves to not out-farm a rammus or out-gank him early; he should be winning in one category at least), and mid is losing. When bot is a combined 1/7/0, I don't flame them for their 7th death in a pure 2v2. When jg stupidly tries to contest drag 2v4 while I'm clearing wave at my tower, bot is dead with the other one walking back to inner tower to farm and mid has no kill threat but backs up the graves only for them both to die and therefore cost our team one side of jg, herald, and an outer tower... I say nothing rude.

When my team with TWO ranged waveclear champs, a talon who has some waveclear from range via w, and a support leona can't sit at a tower 4v4 and just clear minion waves for even ONE FULL WAVE without dying by stupidly FORCING a fight AWAY from tower and it somehow becomes MY FAULT, I take issue.

They drafted their champs knowing the enemy comp... if you can't deal with them 4v4... that's not my fault as toplaner. YOu have all the tools to waveclear and stall 4v4 without running in and inting them kills for free just cuz you see them coming for your tower and they're ahead. They don't have 1-shot champs and only rammus can tank more than 2-3 tower hits plus the damage from 2 adc's and a talon while being peeled by a leona w/o dying for nothing. I'm trying to splitpush because I've gotten what I need to reliably solo out the darius and splitpush while my team just stalls or... force them to send 2 people to deal with me while my team 4v3 makes plays. But no... that's not good enough. I'm causing the team to lose by winning my lane 1v1 unlike everyone else on the team??? I'm costing my team the game by first gifting our jg a kill and helping him steal away some enemy jg camps and then avoiding dying to a 2v1 by a fed rammus who flashes on me when I'm at the most vulnerable position possible in laning phase? I'm being selfish and a shitty teammate for even expecting team can clear a single minion wave under tower instead of diving headlong 4v4 into the enemy team away from the safety of tower when the enemy is fed?

But I didn't just splitpush. I tried 5v5 too. Example... fight at dragon. I asked team to stay as 4 and secure vision control while the enemy team was walking to drag from base... they didn't even though they were in area. I walked down to dragon but my team conceded ground too easily and I was cut off and forced to engage from a flank position... funny how NOW my team is scared to engage 4v4 when I'm coming and arrive at same time as our toplaner but in all other cases they glibly run in 4v4 just to die. So I make a risky engage (for myself; good for team because I force their carries to run away from me and open them to my team to 4 man dive and focus the enemy carries first) to once again... put my TEAM over my own kda and safety. Does my team work with me? No... full hp mid, adc, and leona support who's been largely inting and trolling the entire game decides it's too risky to engage 5v5 when the enemy team has blown all their cc on me and their carries are ripe for the picking and positioned perfectly for those 3 to dive onto them w/o having to get past the enemy frontline of darius and rammus. So all 3 hang graves and me out to dry. Not only that... but the whole lost fight is MY fault according to our support. The only one who argues otherwise and backs me up is graves... who also happened to die. And who also was nagging me nearly as much as leona and blaming me for them forcing engages 4v4 away from tower and dying for no reason the rest of early/mid game and telling me it's my fault for not grouping.

And it gets better. You'd think after 10+ times of telling my team to just hold a tower 4v4 and keep jg warded they'd understand that simple message and let me split push either to get towers or force darius back so I can collapse and give team a 5v4 which we stand a chance of winning. Seems reasonable considering there's literally nothing to stop my team from 4v4 waveclearing at their towers to defend them for days - any attempt to dive them would result in about equal losses by both sides if they play things halfways competently. But no... despite the last 25 min spent meeting their inting, mindless engages and throws with positivity encouragement and useful feedback; despite NOT retaliating for the numerous times everyone on our team but talon flames me for WINNING 1v1 while they throw for no reason and blame me, I keep getting blamed for EVERYTHING. Nobody stays as 4, they keep dying for it. I can't babysit 4 teammates who all run different places and die to chain cc and 4-5 enemies swarming them while they're alone or as 2. You'd think - especially after she proved at dragon that she's capable of identifying enemies as a threat and choosing to BACK OFF - that leona MIGHT just not run in solo to ward baron and our red jg. But no, obviously despite being capable, despite my polite ignoring of her troll and int and flaming of me she will run in 1v5. And when she sees 4 enemies at baron, she will obviously run close so they can catch her, kite top to where I just got done chasing off a darius by myself, expect me to 2v5 (with her) dive in to save her butt, and blame me when I don't.

I'm sorry... but it's been over 25 min now of entire team (except talon who says nothing) feeding for no reason... forcing engages away from tower when behind vs a fed rammus (as 2 adc's in adc and jg) for no reason, and blaming me for everything. I've won my lane. I've refused to flame them for their REPEATED "mistakes" they make time and again despite spelling out exactly THE ONE AND ONLY THING THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO... sit at a damn tower, clear minion waves as 4 and stall w/o dying from forcing engages you can't win. I am polite enough I STILL excuse grave's behavior and flame at me because he has SOME logic - as evidenced by that drag fight - and might just be really tilted from some bad games. I've done 10x more to help my team or TRY to help them than anything they've done for me all game. I've gifted them a ton to help put them ahead only for them to feed and ignore basic logic all game and flame me for their mistakes. So when a leona runs in 1v4, then tries to escape by running through where she should KNOW there is a nearly full hp darius because I just forced him to run away to that spot... I'm going to tell here what's what when she blames me for her dying 1v5. There's nothing toxic about it. You want to intentionally feed and troll all game, then flame and blame everything on the person on your team doing the best... who's gone out of his way to help his team multiple times... who's been hung out to dry by his team multiple times... who's been non-stop blamed by his feeding team... who's been ignored by his team... then you get a taste of your own medicine. After 25 min of inting, trolling and flaming me with no retaliation by me and continued encouragement, non-toxic advice, and gestures showing I'm more than willing to die to help the team when it's LOGICAL to fight I think you surrendered the right to me being nice. You STILL wanna flame me for leaving you to die 1v5 because you don't listen or adjust your play to do anything logically? Guess what... I'll tell you the truth - you're being an idiot. You're being a toxic idiot intentionally feeding troll. Is that nice to say or hear? No. But it is the absolute truth and with the way you've treated me the ENTIRE GAME you surrendered the PRIVILEGE to hear me overlook that and be nice to you when you continue to do int, flame and abuse me. It is actually remarkably similar to your whole PAX situation actually. Except I didn't go insulting an entire people group and lump in friendly non-racist non-sexist people with a few jerks. Yet somehow none of my teammates from that game are punished for their continual mindless feeding for no reason, nor for their toxicity and flame towards me while I am punished for ONCE retaliating after severe repeated provocation by such a toxic troll and inting teammate. Guess with the way you handles PAX I shouldn't be surprised by your "logic" in dealing with the behavior and chat in my match. Thanks... for giving me yet one more reason to not recommend you as a company, as a game, or want to continue playing your game.

I actually thought you guys had done a better job of balancing league to be fair to roles other than ranged aa-based carries unlike HOTS, but when this is how you REPEATEDLY treat me for behaving in the above manner while put with toxic inting troll teammate(s) then at some point maybe I will wisen up and stop putting up with the abuse. Like women in an abusive relationship or men in one (cuz that happens too you know... men being abused) I'll leave. I'd still like to think you are capable of better... but that faith is being repeatedly killed by the way you handle this type of scenario, by power abuse by people on boards, and by stuff like PAX where you project the toxicity of a few onto every single person of a category of people (in this case males or more specifically white males) and pretend that is not racism or sexism. Too bad unlike women or men in an abusive relationship I can't go to the authorities and seek justice... because the abusive people on the other end of the relationship IS the authorities (in-game)... rito itself.

Think about that and have a... nice day.

8 Comments

woodvsmurph1 votes

Nobody's holding a nuclear device to your head. Based on your reply, that might be too complex an answer for you to understand, but I don't care.

Koutetsujô2 votes

Yeah I definitely agree with ya. We should rework ryze again

Dracocrash1 votes

I don't flame them for their 7th death in a pure 2v2.

do you normally flame your team?

Can you show us chat logs?

Really hard to have an opinion without facts.

woodvsmurph1 votes

If I normally flame my team would I be nice to them for 25 min while they blame me for everything? Would I gift my jg a kill that I could have easily gotten for myself because he was nice enough to gank - I held off the last aa because he showed up late and I wanted to reward him for coming even if he was late.

Would I ping a 2/12/3 kog'maw to NOT take MY cs not out of selfishness but because I had game sense that there were 3 enemies waiting to bush whack him (and proved to be right) and then because he listened he avoided dying AGAIN and got to farm wave by tower because I sat there and protected him from 3 fed enemies even though I really could have used the cs to complete an item? I gave it to him because he needed it more if he were going to be relevant.

Would I 4x in a row flank a fed enemy team to cc and nuke multiple enemy carries knowing I will die for it to set up my feeding teammates for a winning 4v4 while my jg afk farms and refuses to work with team? Would I then go and tell my team good job and that it's 100% worth it to have me die 4x in a row to give my team 4 for 2 teamfights after they've spent the first 20 min throwing the game but are now working on improving their play and cooperating with each other and me?

I don't know about you.... but that doesn't sound like someone who flames people for no reason. Here in the Midwest, we have some of the nicest people on the planet. Hard working, honest folk who would give you the shirt off their back if you really needed it. But if people take advantage of that and abuse it, you'd be we'll also punch your teeth right out for you doing something real bad. And it's not easy to re-earn someone's trust once you repeatedly throw it away. That's how we are... that's how I am. I can be the nicest guy you've ever played with - never afraid to die for my team if it's gonna help the TEAM more than it costs me. Or I can be a giant bleepety bleep. I won't do it cuz I love being one... but if you show throughout a whole match that's all you're willing to do to someone else and/or me then I can give you what you are asking for.

I don't just stick up for myself either. I've told midlaners or junglers to shove off when they flame our bot lane for being combined 2/10/2 in some games. Why? Because bot was stuck in an essentially 2v4 the entire laning phase while mid fed, stood afk at tower not punishing their opponent for roaming, and not counter-ganking. Jg was afk farming or making suicidal invades vs 3 enemies and feeding and would see 4 people collapsing on bot who was trapped under tower with no retreat path available and go start a jg camp instead of walk 5 feet over to help them. I tp'd when I could... but I was trying more to snowball lane and force them to send their jg or mid top to 2v1 try to keep me in check... cuz tp has too long a cd to help bot enough during laning phase. So bot had a bad kda, but they were definitely not inting. They warded, they hugged tower... but you can't go clear control wards that deny your vision if there's always 3+ enemies bot and you get 0 help from team.

So... does that answer your question?

Takahashi931 votes

tl;dr :)

woodvsmurph1 votes

Renekton vs gnar - I shouldn't be able to do shit, but I'm 3/3/1 despite enemy jg camping my lane early and shutting me down after I kill enemy toplaner. Enemy mid is coming top on regular basis as xerath while my ekko sits afk in lane - should never happen; if either one is roaming it should be ekko with xerath maybe following. Bot lane is 2/8/2 combined kda.

I'm up 40+ cs. I tell jg and mid to pls focus mid/top because bot is just flaming each other and feeding as their kda would indicate too. I also ask bot to pls stfu if they have nothing nice or helpful to say because flaming each other isn't helping anyone and they've been doing it the entire game.

I get rotated on by lucian which is fine if he's alone. I go to ward, get caught by veigar cage when I don't have flash and lucian 100-0's me with basic combo plus ult and bork so I can't dodge enough of his damage. So I'm not 3/4/1, still destroying gnar in a matchup I should lose and... this is what my team has to say:

ekko mid - tells team we should ff because support is troll and top is inting trash

trist adc - top is toxic feeding trash

Excuse me? Did I flame 2/4/0 adc who oh wait... has died two more times since earlier and gotten no more kills despite having multiple ganks by ekko and rammus? No. I said we shouldn't be ganking for them because they're too behind. But trist can call me toxic feeding trash when I have far better kda than her and say nothing toxic to her and she faces no punishment? There's logic lol.

And ekko... great you have good kda. You also aren't in a losing matchup, roamed on constantly by the enemy jg or another team's laner, and still managing to win lane - THAT would be ME. But I'm so happy you flame zilean support, praise our feeding toxic tristana, and call me a toxic intentional feeder when I have better kda than your precious trist while facing far more pressure from enemy team. You are so not biased and toxic. I have no clue why I might want to call you an idiot for saying that a teammate 40+cs up and with equal kda to their opponent in a losing matchup while being camped by enemy jg and your laner (with you failing to punish your lane opponent for roaming top so much) is toxic trash. I didn't call you one, but I would be entirely justified in doing so for both: 1. your completely idiotic claim and 2. your unwarranted toxicity towards me.

But of course since I respond to stuff like that with eventually telling such people they're being an idiot or they're a dumbass I'm the bad guy. I'm the toxic player who needs to reform and they're sweet poor little angels who had to suffer through playing with someone like me. Yeah... that is where rito has no logic. That is where they fail to properly look into a match and punish the real toxic people and fix the ACTUAL problem. When those are the teammates you have to work with on a regular basis... they clearly aren't getting banned or punished properly; meanwhile I definitely have been. And who is really at fault? Who is worse? The person who is mindlessly toxic to teammates that are not only trying their best but actually WINNING while being non-toxic to teammates who are not doing well? Or the teammate who gets fed up with being flamed, blamed and abused by their team for no damn reason when they are out-performing over half their teammates and trying to get their team to play smarter and stop flaming each other and replies in kind to their toxicity and abuse after having dealt with far too much of it? Think about THAT.

Colton1471 votes

When you're a Corki player, you can't do much until the mid/late game since he's forced to build at least three items to be viable. item 3070 item 3078 item 3095 item 3087

However, it is due to Corki being an auto-loss troll pick right now; I still play him since he is very fun to play.

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