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Lemme guess... he was just trying his best to win in the way HE thought was best... lol

woodvsmurph··17 votes·8,357 views

*disclaimer: I believe this belongs in player behavior rather than gameplay; however, whenever I attempt to put such a post there, some boards member tells me it belongs here in gameplay. Thus, I will save myself the headache, collect all the usual downvotes, reply to the toxic false accusatioins leveled against me in the comment section, and probably somehow be told... it belongs in player behavior - where I've tried to put such posts before only to be forced to move them here.

So we start a RANKED gold game of solo queue. We have jax top, ahri mid, morg support, smite ezreal adc, and cho'gath jg. I'm not thrilled about ez smite, but I don't say anything. Ez spamming in chat pre-game and in-game "league is dying, quit game" or something close to that. Mute him and move on... whatever. I invade with morg and ahri, we nab kill on zil and go back to do my blue. I get a sense ez wants to steal because he's sticking around "helping" too long. So I smite just to ensure I get it - he missed smite steal by 6hp. I go to do wolves - he manages to steal small one. I go to raptors, he's looking to steal my red, realizes I'm smarter than that and steals some raptors. He spends the entire early game either: 1. following or beating me around jg to steal or try to steal every camp from me without ever looking to take enemy camps - the whole reason for going smite adc or smite mid or... 2. running into lanes and either inting or trying to steal all cs, bait teammate into fight, and leave them to die before spam pinging their death timer. He doesn't ping it to alert team to be careful, but to make fun of people.

Let's look at the rest of the map: Top - jax is losing 1v1 early and I haven't had chance to make it up there in time to help him. Grag ganked a few times and there's no hope of 2v1 turning lane around with how much he fell behind even when 1v1, so he's gotta just suck it up which he's attempting to do. Mid - I have helped here and so has morg. Together we've gotten ahri a nice advantage which she COULD capitalize on easily if our adc wasn't a troll trying to sabotage the game. She's making some great roam attempts and trying to help morg or jax when possible. They aren't always successful, but if I wasn't being screwed over so hard the whole game by our adc, we could definitely have taken over the game off ahri and me coordinating plays. Support - morg is dying a bit too much, but she's 1v2 vs a jhin and soraka. She's trying her best given the crappy situation and even made some good team plays with ahri and me. I've saved her a few times and done my best to be bot to support her, but it's not enough. She's trying her best and I respect that even if her kda sucks. (bad kda does not equal feeding; good kda does not equal "not inting")

Well after 20+ min, we finally get 4 on board with surrendering the hopeless game. Ezreal claims he was "trolled" by his duo... pretty sure he didn't even have a duo. And regardless, nobody trolled him at all. No banning his champs in champ select, no stealing them away, no attempts to steal any cs from him or leach xp other than me TRYING to defend my jg as the jungler. This ezreal should be insta-banned for the shit he pulled. He made no attempt to win, no attempt to help his teammates at all, and was blatantly disrespectful to both his teammates and Riot. But if the same usual trolls visit this post I'll hear something like "you should have given your adc first blue buff". Or "you should have backed him up when he went to mid or toplane". Or "why didn't you just go bot as adc?" I'm not at all set up to go bot with the runes and item(s) and champ I had. I shouldn't HAVE to. And it ultimately would have made no difference.

The final point: I do believe Riot is smart enough to spot this ezreal and punish him. Yet if I had said ANYTHING toxic to hiim in game, I am willing to bet they write off all his blatantly horrible actions and only punish me. I'm not saying that toxic behavior is ok... it's not. However, in a game like this, most players would understand minor levels of toxicity directed at this ezreal after all the things he did to screw over my team and especially me - completely unprovoked. What I am saying is that toxic behavior like SHOULD NOT excuse ezreal for HIS crimes... yet that is exactly how games tend to play out. Chat is punished if explicit, but no matter how blatantly obvious it is... feeding or intentionally screwing over your teammates is overlooked way too often - especially if said person had anything toxic said to them; no matter how much they deserved it based on their repeated actions and less-obvious toxic chat of their own. This has to stop. I held my tongue when jax died way too much. I tanked jhin ult multiple times to save morg. I encouraged ahri when she made some good attempts. I didn't go beyond the level of "toxicity" of telling ezreal "go away you troll" or things like that. Start punishing trolls and intentional feeders... not just toxic behavior because refusing to address the latter is just snowballing the former (toxic chat) out of control in this game and I understand WHY people get that way. It doesn't have to be this blatantly obvious - like the ezreal in this game - for it to be troll behavior that should be punished. Get rid of the poor play and much of the toxicity will follow suit - without ever even having to be addressed directly. *Again... bad kda does not equal poor play or inting - just read back and recall how I don't blame morg or report her for 1/6/6kda.

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2841771509/41049663?tab=overview

29 Comments

Death by Glamour11 votes

Riot tends to be far to heavy handed with people who "flame" while trolls and intentional feeders get away with it.

Do I mind if someone calls me a %%%%%% or w/e, not really as I can mute and move on. The exception to this is when someone tells you to go hang yourself or wishing death upon someone in your family.

woodvsmurph2 votes

Absolutely.

Also too many in the game fail to recognize the difference between constructive criticism and flame. Like "please just play safe for now bot - you are behind and can't win trades" vs "stop feeding trash bot". One contains useful information which isn't insulting although it may be painful to hear. The other while being true in that you should stop dying contains no other helpful information nor is it said in a positive light. But people don't realize the difference, so the freak out at either, cry "toxic, reported" and then too often go on to be toxic themselves.

I nearly had that in a game recently. After we lost a fight, I told our support she needed to nami ult sooner when the enemy commits to an engage on me. Was it entirely her fault we lost the fight? No. Was I flaming her? No. She and others kinda freaked out on me for saying that. So I stressed that I wasn't blaming her, but merely saying so we'd do better in the future and admitted I had stuff to improve on too. We both apologized for any misperceptions of toxicity, fixed what we needed to for the next fights and turned around a losing game. I made extra sure to praise her good plays too. But if either of us had just completely sold out on "toxic reported" mentality, we'd have lost the game for sure and spent the rest of it bickering instead of looking at improving our own play and helping each other realize how to improve our coordination too. I hate how few people these days will actually take constructive criticism. Instead it's all cast as toxic. Leading to lack of improvement and learning by players and more actual toxicity.

Alex h87215 votes

Smh what a scumbag ezreal. I agree completely riot's disciplinary system is absolute trash, it has such a hard time "detecting" trolling/griefing (intentionally trying not to win the game) that griefing damn near shouldnt even be an option for a report...

BUT if you tell one person they're "trash" or "an idiot" prepare to get at least a chat ban if they report you. Its lopsided and absolutely pathetic.

False Positivity4 votes

i got a permaban on one of my accounts for calling a 0/22/1 full mana regen garen a "pouting little bitch"

Alex h87211 votes

pathetic, fuck riot for that type of stuff, unjust punishments not fitting the crime.

Leetri1 votes

If you got a permaban you either said something way worse (as in death threats or racial slurs) or you've had multiple restrictions and temporary bans before.

TheThrillionaire1 votes

[{quoted}](name=False Positivity,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PgktqBh6,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-08-08T04:22:13.776+0000)

i got a permaban on one of my accounts for calling a 0/22/1 full mana regen garen a "pouting little bitch"

If this is true then it's most likely due to the fact that you were a repeat offender and reported multiple times for similar reasons. Riot wouldn't permaban you for 1 toxic comment. I'm usually pretty level headed most of the time, but there are times (bad/days or just having multiple personally bad games in a row I can tend to pop off on people and say things like that), and I've never been perma banned ever, and with the new system have been tops in this new honor system. Point is, if you wanna flame and/or you realize youre being a jerk to people. Just mute and dont touch your enter button. <-- This Has been a Public Service Announcement [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

z63XnLCMwX4 votes

Riot is an indie company. They can't afford to hire employees to moderate. /s

Tahminatrix 3 votes

{quoted}

Riot is a smollllllll indie company. They can't afford to hire employees to moderate. /s

Eightprism3 votes

You make it sound like you did morg some sort of favor by not reporting that kda even if it was a bit worse. I wish people understood...yeah the system is bad, but you dilute your ability to report with that stuff.

woodvsmurph1 votes

My point is that kda does not determine if someone is inting or should be reported. What a player does in-game is what matters. I know plenty that would have flamed her or reported her from my own experiences. And she did make some repeated bigtime mistakes that are shouldn't be happening at this elo. But I excuse her because of how tilting it must have been for her to try to 1v2 as a support - especially with how the game was going. And she did at least TRY to work with team. Hence, nothing to report.

  1. working with team
  2. not repeating the same mistake(s) too many times - a few more than normally acceptable, but excused due to extreme and tilting circumstances

equals... not inting, not reported

I stress this because everyone on boards sees "inting" and freaks out. Most just assume bad kda=inting, but that's not true.

Ulquiorra01232 votes

I disagree. However I am sorry for your experience. I only disagree with banning players. I do think that slapping ranked suspensions is fantastic, but not account bans.

Account bans are apart of the toxicity, I have lost 2000$ worth of skins, rune pages, etc to an account ban for words. I lost 2000$ in a game to words. This is the only game that will ever do this. And to be fair, I have never attacked someone personally, I have gone in on someone's gameplay, but have never once gone in on someone's personality or their life, never. I don't think I understand people who do at all... Like lets talk for a second to that type of player who does go in on people's lives, you don't know them. If you are that childish to try and insult someone personally, you are probably worse off than them. I don't think that bashing someone's gameplay should ever warrant a punishment, not in any situation. But you know, it was 3 years ago so I don't really care about it nowadays.

As for inting like this, I would personally slap a ranked suspension of something like 50 games on it, make him play 50 ARAM/normals games so he can get back into ranked, if he ever does it again in those 50 games, the sentence extends. And the sad part is you can easily make an automated system to do this. I would never, ever, under any circumstance wish someone losing their account. There are exceptions however to this rule, if they reach like a 250 game ban from ranked, they probably aren't learning, and sure take away the account, they clearly don't care about the game at that point, nor should the game care about them.

But in final I will always support the idea of Ranked suspensions, and completely oppose the idea of banning accounts.

Baval1 votes

oh hey its you. i see your 5 loss 7 win plan didnt work

Ulquiorra01231 votes

You mean the plan that has worked twice now into silver 1 :) Literally a week ago and today, sorry that I played swain for 11 games with 11 losses lmao I'll be gold in less than 2 weeks ezpz, just thought I would have some last bit of fun before doing the climb :)

Baval1 votes

{quoted}

You mean the plan that has worked twice now into silver 1 :) Literally a week ago and today, sorry that I played swain for 11 games with 11 losses lmao I'll be gold in less than 2 weeks ezpz, just thought I would have some last bit of fun before doing the climb :)

lol you keep saying that. 2 weeks ago you told me "in one week ill come back when im gold, i only need to win 2 games" and now youre lower than you were then. And now its going to be 2 weeks this time lol, why does it take you so long to play the 12 games your "system" is supposed to require to gain a division?

And didnt you tell me "after I lose 5 games the next 7 are super easy and then i get promoted" so how did you lose 11 in a row?

Its almost like the MMR system works, you cant exploit it to climb by losing more than you win, and you belong in your rank...

edit: also why you always lying? Once again, you know i can look at your match history and see you didnt lose 11 games with swain in a row. Yes, you do almost always lose when you play Swain, but you play Swain sporadically and most of your games on him were 7/11 (5 games, one win), then 7/28 (3 games 3 losses) 2 on 7/30 (2 losses) and none since.

Ulquiorra01231 votes

I had a long post written out, but it isn't worth trolling anymore xD. I've already proved the point I wanted to, I have legitimately played seriously for the last 20 games, the swain losses were just that, actual losses, Im great on the champion early game, shit mid game. Happens.

Every response in the last 2 weeks has been a troll because I got a warning from Rito to stop throwing games 2 weeks ago, hence my broadcast on league being "OK Riot You Win". You would think that when you looked at things you would see that the pattern just isn't there in the 20 games you listed, but hey not everyone has a brain, so I guess not xD Also very odd is that the account is winning a vast majority of games since the swain games, wow, almost like I'm taking things seriously xD Again not everyone has a brain.

I love triggering gold plebs who get carried by silver players xD

Baval1 votes

{quoted}

I had a long post written out, but it isn't worth trolling anymore xD. I've already proved the point I wanted to, I have legitimately played seriously for the last 20 games, the swain losses were just that, actual losses, Im great on the champion early game, shit mid game. Happens.

Every response in the last 2 weeks has been a troll because I got a warning from Rito to stop throwing games 2 weeks ago, hence my broadcast on league being "OK Riot You Win". You would think that when you looked at things you would see that the pattern just isn't there in the 20 games you listed, but hey not everyone has a brain, so I guess not xD Also very odd is that the account is winning a vast majority of games since the swain games, wow, almost like I'm taking things seriously xD Again not everyone has a brain.

I love triggering gold plebs who get carried by silver players xD

LMFAO

ok buddy, we all believe you were "just trolling"

youve been trolling since the season began huh? [sg-miss-fortune]

woodvsmurph1 votes

I might have somewhat agreed with you in the past; however, I have read a few posts which make a great argument against this. First off, you can start with a 2 week ban/suspension or something if this is ez's first time. He'll get the picture hopefully and play nice. If it's not his first time, then he clearly didn't learn and needs more severe discipline.

Those posts that changed my view somewhat - merely suspending ranked privileges leads to angry or troll players ruining the game for people playing normal pvp or pve. They deserve to have a good experience too and sending trolls and toxic players to flood their matches isn't going to help people reform any more than giving said players a temporary suspension from playing at all. It will only ruin more matches for people trying to play a less intense/more chill version of pvp or new players trying to learn the game.

I don't know about you... but I report toxic players and trolls whether they were on my team or whether they were on the enemy team and spoon fed my team a win. Because I know how much it sucks having these people in the game and don't want ANYONE to have to put up with them again - friend or foe.

Ulquiorra01231 votes

But here is the problem, for most its a first time offense, and they very rarely do it. It happens, people get tilted. I don't think there are people who are innately toxic every game. As for words, nah, shouldn't ban people for that. If you can't handle words, how are you going to handle life? IF you can't find the mute button, how do you function in life?

On the topic of Inting again, I still propose the same, 50 game ranked suspension that increases if they continue to do it in normals, and at 3-5 extensions its a permaban. Clearly they didn't learn their lesson if they are still doing it in normals. Either way if they truly want to get banned they will get banned, regardless of if you make them not play the game for 2 weeks or not. It is just far quicker to weed out the true toxic players under the system I propose than a 2 week ban which also covers the alert time on the account. Which means they come back to the game with essentially a fresh slate and nobody is watching the account. Trust me, I know how it works because I used to have a friend who inted every game.

woodvsmurph2 votes

In real life? In real life mouthing off to your coworkers or boss gets you canned; they don't mute you. Mouthing off to a customer? Do I really need to go there?

As far as "toxic" chat, people do go overboard in accusing toxic or flame to claim someone is doing something wrong when often they are not. But actual toxicity and flaming exists. The problems are twofold as far as how it is handled. First, as I mentioned people over-react to this - making false accusations which are sometimes actually punished and due to that they don't know the difference between helpful (but sometimes painful to admit) feedback/advice and actual toxicity. The second is that the root of the problem is at least 75% inting and/or soft inting. Deal with this instead of excusing it and the majority of "toxic" players (such as myself - been on the list twice I believe) don't get toxic because they aren't dealing with people performing 2 tiers below their rank and getting harassed by such players for every little thing all game many games in a row.

If I'm not having to constantly put up with that, I'm one of the most patient and helpful people around. I don't care if you win or lose lane or the game. I don't care if you mess up big time once here or there. I care if you are repeating the same bad decision(s) over and over again - aka inting. I also care if you are being stupidly toxic to me or another player and spouting lies and I will call you out on your bs. When I get tilted from many games of this in a row - whether it's in one day or over the course of an entire week - that's when I've had a bad habit of saying too much. And while the person might be acting like a jerk and inting too, that doesn't excuse me saying horrible stuff. But give people like me the knowledge that said toxic and troll/inting players are being PROPERLY dealt with and we don't lose it. Because we won't be running into these people for 7+ games in a row and because we will know that justice is being served. It's when the government doesn't enforce the law fairly or has bad laws that people take justice into their own hands. And that's sort of what people like myself are attempting to do... which has gotten us in trouble in the past. I'd love to say it's all behind me, but I can't. While I do try very hard to avoid toxicity at all costs, I still feel myself drift in that direction sometimes when my teammate(s) and/or myself are being unjustly harassed and having our match ruined by some jerk. I'm patient. I give people the benefit of the doubt and time/advice/encouragement to improve. But if they continually show lack of respect and lack of desire to even TRY improving and being nicer, then I tend to let them know what's what. Because I can't stand bullies, jackasses, and mindlessly toxic players who have no clue what they're doing. I guess fighting on my own to do what the system won't will probably get me banned someday unless I quit first or... the system finally listens and improves the way it deals with intentional feeders and soft inting.

Inting once - due to potential for misplaced conviction (although the supporting evidence I would demand makes it all but impossible for this to happen) - would not necessarily result in a ban. Only in the most severe cases would a one time event lead to it. However, if you think you are ok to INTENTIONALLY feed/throw say once a month to stay under the radar... well no. Once a month or once a day... it's still you making a habit of an unacceptable behavior and should not be excused.

OgSc2 votes

1.Your first mistake was not dodging when the ezreal was speaking shit in pre-game. 2. Riot isnt going to do Jack to that ezreal as long as he didnt say anything that triggered the automatic bot. ( I had a katarina who legit inted and ran it down mid/bot. Reported her AND brought it directly to riot support, nothing.) 3. I would have soft afk'd at fountain if the ez was gunna troll all game. Would have gone on my phone or somethin to pass the time.

Baval1 votes

unlike the last time you decided to come to the forums to complain about the game, this time you were playing with an actual troll, so why would we disagree with you that he should be punished?

VermillionWolf1 votes

u meenie, i raport for flime

TheThrillionaire1 votes

Side note though, there's no reasonably possible way for Riot staff to sit through every minute of every game game that someone gets reported for inting to verify.

woodvsmurph1 votes

This is true. But that's why people need to better understand what inting is... because too many people get the wrong idea - in part thanks to boards moderators and such that either don't know or have never played with an intentional feeder like many of us run into all too often.

Put simply - you can be 0/7/0 but not be inting. Or you can be 10/4/0 and be soft inting. Kda isn't what determines if you are or are not inting - which is what I stress because you mention the term and everybody assumes you just report someone for bad kda. I don't. If they are playing as smart and safe as they can and working with their teammates to give their team the best chance possible, then they aren't inting even if they are 0/7/0. Maybe they just soaked 4 people's worth of pressure the entire laning phase and got no help. If they aren't running it down lane forcing fights by the enemy tower in this scenario and they are backing off if they can spot the ganks incoming, they are doing their best. Rather than report them for bad kda and claim inting, we should be reporting their teammates for not counter-ganking or punishing their opponent properly for leaving lane so much. On the flip... I can be 6/0/0 and then spend the rest of the match showing off and trying to 1v5 and just trade kills while gaining my team nothing for my death (not pulling 5 bot to give them free baron or something like that). And then I'm inting even though I have a decent kda.

If someone is dying in the same way over and over and they COULD easily adjust their play to avoid it (not being screwed over by their team or making DIFFERENT mistakes every time), then they are inting. That should be decently easy to verify if it's mentioned in the report. You can look up where someone died on the map in post game for instance. So if I'm being camped top and refuse to adjust by staying closer to tower and asking for counter-ganks or for my team to make plays elsewhere and I keep dying... Riot can see that pretty easily and tell if I'm taking fights I have no chance of winning.

And the last thing I'll say is that it's somewhat elo dependent. Stuff that's not acceptable in challenger is excusable in plat. Stuff that's not ok in plat is acceptable in silver... because people don't know better. That has to play a factor too.

Warlord Rhinark1 votes

Naming and shaming isn't allowed on the boards.

woodvsmurph3 votes

Do you see names in my post? And it doesn't matter. The behavior ezreal had should have him banned. Either temp or permanent.

Warlord Rhinark3 votes

{quoted}

Do you see names in my post? And it doesn't matter. The behavior ezreal had should have him banned. Either temp or permanent.

I don't see names, but I see public shaming of the Ezreal and then a link to your match history so everyone can find him, so it substitutes for a name.

And it does matter. It's a violation of the rules.

If you want him reported, submit a ticket.

This is a community board. We can't report people here.

woodvsmurph1 votes

Debunking your claim

  1. It's a violation to name names on the boards - people link match history all the time
  2. Most people won't bother or don't care to look at match history to find the name
  3. It's not the best thing to do... but that doesn't make it a violation
  4. I mentioned players in each role for my team. You can also see the date. Combo the two and you can archive search my match history... there's literally only one such match during the time frame which could fit the description and therefore even if I don't link it, interested players could fine out via that method. This holds true for many other such instances of posts by other players with similar types of posts even if they didn't link match history or they blotted out names; therefore, there's nothing wrong with it unless all these players also violated... which they didn't due to their posts being left up forever and not being locked or anything else done in action against them.
  • number 4 is the real key here. Sure they can click a link and directly view the player's name... but it only takes one extra step for the readers of a million other posters out there given the info they give to anyone reading their posts about such players. Thus, I merely (and unintentionally) made it one step easier for people to find out said player's name. But I did not hand out the name on boards - which WOULD be a violation. There is a difference, albeit a fine line.

For further example explanation of the process I describe... Say you make a post about a game you played with an jax top and a kindred jungle as you were on ryze mid. Well based on that info and date of post, I can search your match history for within x number of days of said post, look for games with all those criteria (ryze mid with your name, a jax top, and a kindred jungle) and find the match you are referring to - and KNOW the name of anyone you complained about or complimented on the boards if I so choose. This without you linking the match, with you linking but blotting out names, or with you posting the name within your post to name shame. Thus it literally does not matter - aside from if you actual name shame on the board by posting name on board directly. Ka boooooooom. Your nice theory debunked. Nothing wrong with looking out to prevent name shaming... but don't go overboard.[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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