You gave players a window to react to assassins, which is fine and was probably needed. But you forgot to give assassins a way to either close that window or at least shorten it a bit as the game goes on.
Astôlfo30 votesOr the fact assassins can't actually assassinate anymore unless you're Rengar or Kha'Zix. Or the fact non-assassins like Diana, full AD Jarvan, and more can assassinate even faster while being far more durable with more CC.
Shaco my BFF3 votesRengar isn't even good anymore. Everyone is scared of him, but he's really bad now after early game (unless your entire team is snowballing).
KhaZixTheScyther6 votesi mean his early game is stupid strong if you clear correctly, and if you know how to gank properly.
Shaco my BFF1 votesyeah, his early game. Mid and late game he drops so hard it's ridiculous. Marksmen and AP casters deal more damage than Rengar. Only viable build for him mid-late game is juggernaut-style armor penetration + stack defensive items. I went 10-1 on Rengar early game, by bottom laners each had 8 takedowns, mid laner 5. I ended up surrendering when I was 14-4-1. Simply because my teammates were incapable of playing properly and enemies ALWAYS grouping, running to tower when I ultied. Old Rengar could've carried those teamfights. The new one is nothing but finding a solo squishy and hope you can kill them.
AMYS GRAVE7 votesDiana and Jarman are diving fighters. They get tankieness because they have no escapes. That's the tradeoff between the classes. Also if Jarvan actually goes full AD then he is squishier than you're giving him credit for.
Astôlfo7 votesAnd neither do assassins really, because they have to burn their escapes to get in close for the most part. The only exceptions are the resetting killers (a la Katarina/Kha'Zix) and then Talon with his new E.
And assassins are squishy as hell. They still can't burst. Full AD J4 is squishy, but he has durability abilities. He bursts faster than an assassin.
AMYS GRAVE8 votesThe only exceptions are the resetting killers (a la Katarina/Kha'Zix) and then Talon with his new E.
... and Zed, and Leblanc, and Fizz, .... but aside from all the exceptions assassins are immobile, sure.
Astôlfo6 votesUm no. Zed is forced to use at least his R, if not his W as well, to jump someone usually and actually even have a hope of killing them. And once he jumps on them, unless he's fed as hell, he needs his W as well. And if he jumps on a carry in their team, then he's dead before he gets to return.
LeBlanc has to stay within her E tether range to kill someone. Her only escape/gapclosers are W/RW. Which has a 0.25s lockout before she can return. And the return pads make it clearly obvious where she'd try to potentially return.
Fizz has to use either Flash and/or Q/E to get in range. If he doesn't have to, the enemy team as a whole is bad and/or the carry is an idiot who mispositioned horribly.
AMYS GRAVE6 votesUm no. Zed is forced to use at least his R, if not his W as well, to jump someone usually and actually even have a hope of killing them.
How far away are you trying to engage from if you're using both your W and your R, and what are you doing where you can't use the second cast of your R to get out?
LeBlanc has to stay within her E tether range to kill someone. Her only escape/gapclosers are W/RW.
Yeah, she only has two ways out of a fight. Delay or not she still has ways out beyond the likes of Diana or Jarvan who have no way out.
Fizz has to use either Flash and/or Q/E to get in range.
He only has three forms of mobility oh no what ever will he do....
That's the difference between the classes but you just want to focus on divers strengths while ignoring their weaknesses while doing the opposite of assassins. Trying to act as if assassins have no way out of a bad fight is absurd. Assassins are bad right now, but their mobility is still very much in tact and the way you compare them to divers is neglecting the weaknesses of divers.
Astôlfo6 votesA distance I can actually engage without just being flat-out killed instantly by targeted autoattacks or the enemy mage burst or instantly CC'd by the rest of the team.
A fight where the assassin is against a team that isn't stupid enough to just sit and watch Zed kill the ADC.
On the other hand, Jarvan and Diana are fucking tanks compared to LeBlanc. They also have far more AoE and far faster damage than she does, while she has to tapdance for 1.5 goddamn seconds.
Flash doesn't count. Q is targeted and has a set distance no matter what. That really doesn't apply either since it'd only matter near a minion wave or in point-blank. And if he burns E to gapclose, he's fucked.
Please stop talking when you know absolutely nothing.
AMYS GRAVE6 votesbeing flat-out killed instantly by targeted autoattacks
haha that's cute. If you're just going to resort to wild exaggeration (i call them lies but whatever makes you feel better) instead of an argument then i think we are done here.
Ratbert7 votesOr maybe you could wait for your tank to engage instead of jumping in whenever?
"Two melees are tankier than lb" is a given, and they don't have "far more" aoe than lb if she mimics her w. Besides, you're an assassin, so you shouldn't have a lot of aoe anyways.
Fizz can just ult to engage now and saying his q doesn't apply is like saying yasuo's mobility doesn't really apply because it needs an enemy.
Please stop shifting the goal posts to not include situational mobility. Alternatively, learn how to play the game.
SwaggyMcGhee4202 votes{quoted} On the other hand, Jarvan and Diana are fucking tanks compared to LeBlanc. They also have far more AoE and far faster damage than she does, while she has to tapdance for 1.5 goddamn seconds.
Leblanc is actually really good, she's just way more early game oriented than she was before.
Please stop talking when you know absolutely nothing.
Lol the arrogance...
Kartac Magewrigh2 votesThat is correct. Unfortunately too many players despise tanking and supporting and focus solely on damage. IT is the easy - and naturally wrong - way to go. I have now had 4 seasons with only handful of players understanding important concepts of season 1: warding, off-tank builds, helping jungler.
False 0015 votesKatarina can def still 1 shot an adc its just not reng and kha. Even lb can it just takes slightly longer which is a lot more healthier than what lb used to be. Shaco can 1 shot with ap np. Fizz can as well. Idk what your saying?
Astôlfo5 votesThat's not oneshotting. Taking several seconds is not oneshotting.
UP2003 voteswatched a kat shunpo to her dagger ignite and one tick of her ult 100-0 someone today. That kat was 20-0 full build at 20 min with a fully stacked majeis. She was fed and they were bad but yes she can oneshot people.
Astôlfo2 votesUh yeah because that's totally relevant.
Just about any fucking damage-oriented champion that's full build and 20-0 at 20 minutes can near instantly kill someone.
UP2001 votesI didn't say it was a judge of balance, it was just an amusing anecdote. You really are the biggest asshole on these boards lately, take some time to chill the fuck out.
rtbf761092711 voteswhat happens when you give any champion 6 damage items at 20 minutes and have them attack an adc? Do they.... NOT die??
fucking supports could do it if you give them that much gold
Ahristocats5 votesAssassins are no longer assassins
is how an assassin should be right now, killing an adc in 0.8 sec while giving them counterplay due to his new ulti
didn't change at all
is broken but is a mage now, and can't assassinate people
is decent, but is a mage and also can't assassinate people anymore
(AD)
are garbage
SmileInABox5 votesBullshit Rengar has counterplay, you know when you'll die and that's it. They reworked him under the premise of giving counterplay, but gave him a way to cleanse all cc and be cc immune for over a second. They only real way to punish him for diving into your team and killing your carry is to wait for the immunity to end and run him down. I like the LB and Kat reworks cuz they make sense, but they just made Rengar a thousand times more bullshit.
rtbf761092711 votesNo way, the leblanc rework makes no sense. They totally took her out of her assassin role and playstyle. The highest win rate masteries don't even take precision mpen, they take the 5% cdr to get as many rotations/passive hits out as possible. This is not what assassins do, send out rotations of spells from behind their front line over and over. That's a normal mage.
They took away her ability to assassinate and replaced it with (outrageous) damage on her passive which takes too long to go off to actually pick someone off and then get out.
What they should have done is taken a LOT of damage off of her passive, put it on a 1 second timer, moved damage to her ult or something. Plus, made it so it goes on cooldown after hitting someone so she doesnt try to just pop it on all 5 people since that's not assassin like at all
This would also make her less retarded in lane, where if you get hit by chains alone you take 75% of your hp total with her passive
doublelift fg3 votesI never died to rengar
you should just get good, and you don't get immediatly a CC immunity with rengar when you jump so you can CC him when he jump and immediatly destroy him
do you even ADC?
AirKingNeo4 votesNo leblanc 1 shots people and was buffed. Otherwise you'rre right on everything else except rengar who should lose the crit on his ult.
But salty people be salty and still waste bans on Kat anyways.
Astôlfo7 votesLeBlanc literally cannot oneshot. Almost all of her damage is behind her passive which takes 1.5s to prepare.
Troll for Trump1 votesLeblanc does a lot of dmg but it's really delayed.
So basically, you're fked unless you've got a lot of mobility or hard cc.
ScissorsNstuff1 voteslol, I'd hate to see assassins end up being shitty designs like rengar. I'd prefer actual assassins to an uninspired hunter gimped by his fans and compensated with a gamewarping stealth and thematically out of place heal shield.
Sire Hippington4 votesThe big issue that otherclasses don't have that window aswell, especially ADC that should care about extendet fights, but come to lategame they can kill other squishys in about a sec with just rightclicking. Mages also generally have now a faster burst than assasins, though assasins atleast have proper tools to play around that, especially with the spellshield from night's edge. But vs adc, there is just nothing you can do other than bursting them faster than they burst you.
Toastersaot2 votesOr there's , who was killing people with this 1-2 second combo (plenty of time to react) but then was rewarded with the damage that would punch even through tanks.
Kartac Magewrigh3 votesLelbank is mage assassin.
rtbf761092711 votesleblanc kills NO ONE in 1 second. Her passive does the most damage in her entire kit by far
Articality1 votesYou clearly havent seen Rengar or Kat....
Bellows1 votesuntouched <3 
<3
rtbf761092711 votesShe has to get SO fed to really feel like a 100-0 in < 2 seconds assassin. She isn't even an assassin secondary role, she is mage fighter.
agbudar1 votesthe whole point was that the old assasins did shorten that window down to a 0.5 second window. or in some cases 1 frame window.
im all for assasins being able to "close" the window im just not up for "going full circle again"
statelesskiller1 votes
late game
IE
400 AD
actual one frame of existence sometimes
rtbf761092711 votes2300 damage in 0.25s was awful im glad they reworked him
oh wait he still does that but now is easier to play and is the most banned champion in the game
GREAT SUCCESS
