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Too many people dodge in ARAM

Dr Poro··82 votes·6,504 views

Even though you can't accidentally dodge champion select in ARAM (by forgetting to pick a champion like in draft/blind pick), the number of dodges in ARAM is way higher than any other game mode. This is because of the nature of getting a random champion and no real punishment.

Why is dodging bad?

  • You will see more of the same champions every game instead of some whacky team comps. - 9 other players will have to wait another couple of minutes because you didn't like your champion.

Why doesn't the current punishment work? Because you can simply stay logged out and wait for the punishment (15/30/60 minutes for 1st/2nd/3rd+ dodge within 16 hours according to wiki) to expire. You can choose to play something else or go on a smurf and try to get better luck there.

What can we do? Option 1: Decrease the incentive to dodge: When you dodge, you will keep the same champion next time AND you will lose the power to switch champions with your team. You can still dodge when you don't like your team comp, but I feel like the main reason people dodge right now is when they dislike their own champion. Option 2: Feel the punishment: The timer of punishment will only start while your account is logged in and at the end of the timer, you must click on an accept button within 30 seconds to make sure you're not afking all the way through.

67 Comments

DemoGuide29 votes

And, as it was said many times before, make aram actually aram, to screw up aram-only acounts.

Ben Sharpio5 votes

why would anyone have an Aram-only account

terriblygood8 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Sion Bot l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nOZtWk4o,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-08-06T16:59:42.916+0000)

why would anyone have an Aram-only account

a lot of high elo aram people do..

eaglei315 votes

So they can say gg ez at the end of the match with their blitz, lux, etc while you got stuck with Aatrox.

Only Play Darius6 votes

Just had a game against Ezreal Lux Graves Caitlyn Fiddlesticks. I'm sure ARAM accounts don't exist.

######And i'm not just salty that we were actually winning until Lux hit level 16 and cleared every single minion wave from under her turret

el PepE hanDs 3 votes

{quoted}

a lot of high elo aram people do..

Lol high elo aram, that's amusing

redAliceee3 votes

ARAM does have a matchmaking system so it is entirely possible to have "High elo" in ARAM

Deathspasm8417 votes

Yea last night I had Vlad (yay), someone dodged. Veigar (yay) someone dodged. Cait (yay) someone dodged. Then I got Kayle who I hate and rerolled into Taric not great but at least tanky enough to live through the poke. So 3 fun aram champs and like 10 minutes of my time wasted. Something does need to be done about it.

TeemoCarriesU253 votes

none gives a s h i t about your time.

Heckin Support16 votes

{quoted}

none gives a s h i t about your time.

Obviously you do enough to make a comment about it.

Incognonymous8 votes

I don't dodge myself, but I understand. Suffering through 20 minutes with suboptimal champs when every member of the enemy team rolled S-tiers isn't worth it.

Dr Poro6 votes

The thing is, if people dodge less, you won't be facing an S tier team every time. Right now, especially in higher ELOs, people assume that if the game goes through, their team will be stacked with good champs because "otherwise they would dodged right?"

I agree that sometimes the game is so onesided that it's not fun. But the same goes for Summoner's rift where an early lead can snowball out of control (usually because of people tilting/giving up). A good team comp is something like an early lead. It's difficult to come back from it, but sometimes people just instantly give up so it becomes impossible. The point is: it's frustrating, but if you don't give up, you can make some amazing games happen. Also, when both teams get a bad team it usually becomes a very fun game.

Mecha MaIphite7 votes

Do you expect them not to dodge? After all, there are skillshots flying everywhere.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

The Lexer2 votes

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

revliledpembroke1 votes

Mister Piccolo? DODGE!

Dr Poro2 votes

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/teamfourstar/images/f/ff/Ghost_Nappa.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100603081311

revliledpembroke1 votes

GHOST NAPPA!

Critmaster Garen6 votes

instead of punishing people who dodge, how about making every single champion available in arams, so we dont have to face perfect aram teams every game because the enemy team has 3 or 4 aram accounts?

this might give people actually less of a reason to dodge, when they dont get the perfect champion for that mode.

and for the love of god, increase the amount of rerolls. people who have every single champion should at least get 1 reroll per game.

Dr Poro3 votes

I agree that unlocking all champs for ARAM would be a lot better. Not only would the mode be fair and equal to all, it would also allow you to trade champs with whoever you want rather than 'oh sorry you don't own my champ :|'.

However, I decided to make just one suggestion in this thread as I feel that dodging is currently a bigger priority (It really frustrates me and probably everyone else when you have entered champ select 5 times and still didn't start a single game) and there are a few arguments that tend to be used against using the entire champ pool (mainly that it would potentially scare off new players that don't like to play a champ that they don't know yet) so even though I think the downsides are nothing compared to the upsides, I decided to not include it in this thread for the time being, just to see if I could get more people agreeing with me this way.

Baby steps. We'll get there eventually. Maybe even a ranked queue (windowed like 3v3s)

zlumpy2 votes

Best time to play a champ you are unfamiliar left is a cheesy goof around for fun mode. Which is what aram was supposed to be.

Dreadlocks4 votes

Less ppl would play aram then lol.

Dr Poro7 votes

People who like to dodge might play less. People who don't like to wait 10 minutes because 5 games were ddged may play more. I think it would simply be a shift in playerbase, in the long term it would definitely cause an increase.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I mean, im no hardcore aram player, but i think the rarity that i play would only become more rare if i knew the next time i had to play it was a champion i don't want to be hit with.

Dr Poro3 votes

That is assuming that you actually dodge. You just shouldn't do that. It's really selfish to just make other players wait even longer rather than just make the best of it and see if it maybe works out. If it doesn't, then you lose about 15 minutes. By dodging, you guaranteed waste 2 minutes to 9 other people (=18 minutes) AND your own time.

Dreadlocks1 votes

But its a waste of time for sm1 to play a full game if they arnt playing a champion they enjoy... So many instead you should get to pick 16 champions to roll from that you pick... just an idea.

zlumpy3 votes

But thats like saying you like playing ranked but hate how competetive it is. The point of the game mode was randomly generated teams to beat eachother up. Not to be another try hard, win at all costs, extra form of ranked gameplay.

Dreadlocks1 votes

We both know that there are champions on aram that far outclass others.

zlumpy3 votes

Just the nature of the game. No point being mad that a champ does well or doesn't do well. If people just actually played randomly instead of always trying for the best champs there would be more games with both teams having a larger number of diverse setups that dont always have the strong champs.

If you are going into a game thinking someone is already too strong and you cant win then there really isnt a point in playing the mode in the first place. Some people just cafe way too much about winning instead of actually playing the game.

LEEROY KLEDKINS3 votes

1:37 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmQGRiLKsWs

zlumpy1 votes

Jokes on him. I don't have lamp shades and I'm all outa milk.

Hinagiku332 votes

This guy confuses Dynamic Queue with New Champ Select.

Dude needs to read the patch notes and announcements...

Irelia Bot1 votes

They were added at the same time. And a lot of players would be fine with both going away if it had to be that way in order for the old system to return.

TyrekGoldenspear3 votes

Well I do hate those moments where I get the perfect champ and then, a dodge.

xomp3 votes

idk about ARAM having more dodges than anything else, I'm waiting for my 12th lobby right now just trying to get a game of normal's started. I've been in 12 lobbies now trying to get a game started. Been waiting well over 20min's now. Ridiculous.

Grawbad3 votes

Here is what I would do.

Make ARAM totally random regardless of what Champs you own you can still get a champ you do not own, just at a smaller percentage than the free rotation. This would also give people a chance to try out more champs early and not allow them to just play them all the time. Would also fix cherry picked champ accounts just for ARAM. (Though they may not want to fix that. More Cash.)

To help with "Dodging", I would allow for summoners to select their own personal ban list. Not a lot of champs. Not even a real percentage of the total champs, but you could put a page on your profile that allows us to ban, lets say 10-20 champs for when we play ARAM. This number could be adjusted with testing. I just threw them out there as an example. (NOT ban for everyone. Whatever you ban in your profile will just be excluded from the random pick the game will make for you.)

Every 5, maybe 10 games a player has without dodging give them a small boost in IP or even a random skin for their random champ unlocked for that match alone. This would also facilitate people wanting to buy skins as they would actually get to play with it and make them miss it when it is gone. Throw a lit border around their loading screen pic denoting no recent dodging.

Just me, I am sure some will find that nuts.

EDIT: Hey, lets go even further. Every 10 ARAM games in a row you go without dodging gives you +1 champ ban for your ARAM games up to a cap.

DimirWaterbender3 votes

Option 1 is great, and option 2 has a major flaw. A lot of people play aram because they expect to have higher ping or potential connection issues. If their connection makes them dodge champ select, then they will have a horrible punishment that does not exist in other queues.

BigBellBrute2 votes

Why can't people dodge when I roll Nunu and have no rerolls?

zlumpy3 votes

Man I wish I was in your games. I love playing nunu and would gladly trade what ever I got for him.

morris11 votes

AP Nunu in ARAM is the dream.

Galihan1 votes

That full channel penta.

MigYalle2 votes

Option 1 is awesome.

Kensue1 votes

[deleted]

Dr Poro3 votes

There are enough game modes where you can pick your champions. I like ARAM because it's random and it's random for everyone (at least, it's supposed to be). In Legend of the Poro king I also pick random (picking the question mark and I treat myself 2 rerolls per game). I like it a lot more when you see every champ, good and bad rather than just the good ones.

Psi211 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nOZtWk4o,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-06T15:16:45.034+0000)

What can we do? Option 1: Decrease the incentive to dodge: When you dodge, you will keep the same champion next time AND you will lose the power to switch champions with your team. You can still dodge when you don't like your team comp, but I feel like the main reason people dodge right now is when they dislike their own champion. Option 2: Feel the punishment: The timer of punishment will only start while your account is logged in and at the end of the timer, you must click on an accept button within 30 seconds to make sure you're not afking all the way through.

Opinion 1 leads to more AFKers pushing a mouse around time to time.... just to get out of the match... Think that players hate dodgers? When they hate and scream more about AFKers. What's that you say... they will just get banned eventually doing that from reports... Not fast enough I am afraid.
And lets not all forget if banned on a smurf it only takes until level 7 to make a new smurf that can play ARAM once again. Want to really make all champs available in ARAM now? Well that just makes no use in buying the champs after you start your new smurf too.

Yet again Dr. Poro you have made a post that only stands to hurt the game of ARAM in what you want as a stupid bandaid fix.

Opinion 2 ... Say Dr. Poro.... do you know what Autoit is? It is third generation programming.
Meaning kids and non-programmers can figure it out pretty easily. Simple after getting dodge penalty start:

WinWaitActive("[CLASS:League of Legends 6.15.16_07_21_02_05; INSTANCE:2]", "") Send("{ENTER}")

Worse you can compile the executable to be any name you want... your not going to get banned over a file running in the background supposedly called firefox.exe And yes you can open multiple windows of league on one PC got to love virtual machines.

Basically your second option is only going to piss off the players that dodge for a real life issues that want to play and worse ...thoses that don't care just run a program at night or VM to fix their smurf account. While logging into another smurf account to continue playing.

AND BOGGLE what business actively shuts out their clients??? Who wants to play the game with a ridiculous time penalty. It is bad enough that players are leaving in droves over the terrible implementation of Dynamic Queue but some are turning to ARAM for some peace and these threads only just started getting noticed on a board that could care less about a FUN MODE. Fix Ranked and Dynamic Queue and ARAM goes back to normal amounts of smurf accounts.

No flash no life3 votes

{quoted}

they will just get banned eventually doing that from reports... Not fast enough I am afraid.

Absolutely agree, but that's a completely different topic regarding how overly lenient riot is with their punishment and needs to be sorted out on that end, not this one.

And lets not all forget if banned on a smurf it only takes until level 7 to make a new smurf that can play ARAM once again.

And you won't be seeing that same guy anytime soon since he's on his smurf. Not much of a punishment but it will at least improve your future game experience, hopefully.

Basically your second option is only going to piss off the players that dodge for a real life issues

And so should they consider how pissed off the other 9 people are because of those players' circumstances, which have absolutely nothing to do with the remaining 9 players and definitely not their responsibility to suffer the wait for.

It is morally understandable, though, that real life unforeseeable issues can come up abruptly. That's why the consequence isn't a straight ban but has to be harsh enough so people will dodge only if they deem it necessary, only when the consequence of not dodging is bigger than the consequence of dodging should they consider doing it.

As things current stand, the wait timer punishment is too light for people to abuse it instead of doing it only under the real life issues you spoke of.

Who wants to play the game with a ridiculous time penalty.

Likewise, who wants to play the game with those who triggered time penalty.

Psi211 votes

[{quoted}](name=No flash no life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nOZtWk4o,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2016-08-07T15:01:58.394+0000)

Absolutely agree, but that's a completely different topic regarding how overly lenient riot is with their punishment and needs to be sorted out on that end, not this one.

And you won't be seeing that same guy anytime soon since he's on his smurf. Not much of a punishment but it will at least improve your future game experience, hopefully.

And so should they consider how pissed off the other 9 people are because of those players' circumstances, which have absolutely nothing to do with the remaining 9 players and definitely not their responsibility to suffer the wait for.

It is morally understandable, though, that real life unforeseeable issues can come up abruptly. That's why the consequence isn't a straight ban but has to be harsh enough so people will dodge only if they deem it necessary, only when the consequence of not dodging is bigger than the consequence of dodging should they consider doing it.

As things current stand, the wait timer punishment is too light for people to abuse it instead of doing it only under the real life issues you spoke of.

Likewise, who wants to play the game with those who triggered time penalty.

I love how you, "Dr. Poro" and "I cry~" are the only ones pushing this agenda.

I think it is only fair for other players in this thread to know that you three abuse the one thing players hate in Ranked.

You all queue up together when playing ARAM.

ARAM is no different than Ranked where solo players like myself and others get their games ruined by players that queue together to inflate their Rank or in this case MMR against teams that have not queued together. Can we say I am a better player because I have seen you all on my smurf account over and over again when I solo?

So now lets look at another glaring problem with ARAM and very much the queuing system.

You shouldn't be able to queue up with friends and if you do you should strictly only be able to play against other teams that equally queue together. Never once punishing the solo players who are slightly more disorganized when engaging.

But somehow I don't think you are willing to agree to that because then you lose your advantage.

So lets keep the smurf accounts ... since you like to abuse an aspect of queuing to inflate your MMR.

I figure it is only fair.

Plus what I posted before is still valid and Dr. Poro has yet to come up with a fix that isn't a more damaging bandaid.

No flash no life1 votes

{quoted}

You shouldn't be able to queue up with friends and if you do you should strictly only be able to play against other teams that equally queue together. Never once punishing the solo players who are slightly more disorganized when engaging.

Absolutely agree with one additional condition: when teams queue together they should use the mmr of the highest mmr player on the team, not the average of all members. While it's not perfect, using peak mmr creates less casualties than using average or lowest mmr, thus I see no reason why matchmaking does otherwise.

But somehow I don't think you are willing to agree to that because then you lose your advantage.

I'm dumbfounded. As a permanent solo player I've never supported - if anything I'm against the said system - dynamic queue, but that's trivial matter. What's more important is that I'm utterly confused right now and might need some help here. We're trying to deal with people abusing aram dodging exploit, and I'm having difficulty relating it to the way ppl queue, be it solo or in group, and the consequences that follow.

Dr Poro1 votes

I love how you, "Dr. Poro" and "I cry~" are the only ones pushing this agenda.

Very heroic of you to make ad hominem attacks while posting from a 1,194 MMR account claiming to be better (yes this is an ad hominem attack to you. Feels great right?). 'I Cry Rivers' is my brother, so yes, we do duoQ a lot in ARAM since he barely plays league now and only when I ask him to. Btw he doesn't even use the boards. As for No Flash No Life, he's from NA so how exactly are we playing together?

And if we are the only 3 people defending these points, then how did this thread get 67 upvotes? And what about IIIIIIIIIIII's thread which is currently in the top 10?

What you are trying to do here is to find one minor flaw in every suggestion and try to obliterate it based on that. Using very specific and rare situations where it might be suboptimal. Yes, the worst humans will always find a way to screw the system, but right now, it's a way too big portion of people dodging games regularly. Do you not even see the problem yourself or to you just like to insult people? My suggestions may not be perfect, but I don't claim them to be. Feel free to make a better suggestion. What I do claim is that my suggestions are better than the current situation, and given the massive upvotes I get and 120 out of 160 votes saying YES, I would say that the majority agrees.

As for queuing up with friends, people don't do that to tank MMR in ARAM. If anything, I would prefer a lower MMR because games would be faster and easier. If premades have a higher winrate in ARAM, by all means, fix the matchmaking so that they get a 50% winrate compared to soloQers again. But I think that 100% of the people in ARAM go premade to have fun with friends and winning is not the incentive here. I think my winrate is actually higher when I solo btw.

Psi211 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nOZtWk4o,comment-id=0013000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-08T17:32:39.103+0000)

Very heroic of you to make ad hominem attacks while posting from a 1,194 MMR account claiming to be better (yes this is an ad hominem attack to you. Feels great right?). 'I Cry Rivers' is my brother, so yes, we do duoQ a lot in ARAM since he barely plays league now and only when I ask him to. Btw he doesn't even use the boards. As for No Flash No Life, he's from NA so how exactly are we playing together?

And if we are the only 3 people defending these points, then how did this thread get 67 upvotes? And what about IIIIIIIIIIII's thread which is currently in the top 10?

What you are trying to do here is to find one minor flaw in every suggestion and try to obliterate it based on that. Using very specific and rare situations where it might be suboptimal. Yes, the worst humans will always find a way to screw the system, but right now, it's a way too big portion of people dodging games regularly. Do you not even see the problem yourself or to you just like to insult people? My suggestions may not be perfect, but I don't claim them to be. Feel free to make a better suggestion. What I do claim is that my suggestions are better than the current situation, and given the massive upvotes I get and 120 out of 160 votes saying YES, I would say that the majority agrees.

As for queuing up with friends, people don't do that to tank MMR in ARAM. If anything, I would prefer a lower MMR because games would be faster and easier. If premades have a higher winrate in ARAM, by all means, fix the matchmaking so that they get a 50% winrate compared to soloQers again. But I think that 100% of the people in ARAM go premade to have fun with friends and winning is not the incentive here. I think my winrate is actually higher when I solo btw.

That is all I needed.

  1. You admit to taking advantage and queuing up to inflate your MMR rating in ARAM.

  2. 67 upvotes allowing players to get all champion which in some cases costs them money.... So free money who wouldn't up vote that? Get it?

  3. Not minor flaws but tons of flaws. Whats worse there is a blinding flaw. RIOT GETS MONEY FROM THESE SMURFS BUY CHAMPIONS. You want to essential make a free to play game that is on the decline to give out the method in which pays their programmers??? Whats worse is you want those same programmers to work themselves out of a job by programming what..... YOUR bankrupting ideas. Worse that DON'T EVEN FIX ANYTHING. I mean come on... locking out a player who dodges from a game for a day. Ever hear. "Don't play don't pay."

  4. If you want to have fun in your premades you can wait in a queue that takes 10 minutes plus waiting for equal number of premade opponents. Don't ruin the soloer's experience. My experience. Which you pretty much admitted you do. I had to wait in dominion during the time Match making worked correctly with premades. You can wait too.

By the way IIIIIIIII....'s thread was already debunked. Multiple votes from the same players. No filtering and methods to skew the results. All equals terrible survey. LOL but I didn't even need to comment in that thread. Others already pointed it out.

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