Another hidden power of Yasuo that I think is excessive

Dr Poro·Sep 18, 2016·147 votes·9,644 views

https://youtu.be/0YINsRtqipk?list=PLsL7hqZ-1QGQhF_QV2ZyTm0Rp0DrhTuq1&t=33

When Yasuo ults to an enemy that is under turret, he will try to be positioned outside of the turret even if this means that the distance between him and his target is bigger than usual.

I think Yasuo has enough power in his mobility, projectile block and 1v1 potential that he shouldn't also be a major threat when you're hiding under your turret. I've been killed by him this way more often than once, thinking that even when he ults, he'd die with me, but nope, he just positions himself outside of turret range and I always wondered how he did it... Well, turns out the game does it for you. Automatically.

I can accept that he can shove me under the turret and that he can poke me and dash out to take 0 or 1 turret hits, but I'm not fine with that he can all-in right under your turret without taking any damage or risk (note that he also blinks back out of turret range if he used E -> Q on you while he was in turret range, so no "just dodge the tornado" crap).

113 Comments

MatezoideSep 18, 201654 votes

I already knew it would try to put him outside of turret range, but actually increase his distance from the target just to keep him safe is fucking bullshit.

I am not even talking about him being broken or some shit like that. The game going out of it's way to keep him away of turret's range, to the point of actually breaking the way his ult is supposed to work just to keep him safe is bullshit.

Dr PoroSep 18, 201613 votes

Exactly. Yasuo is a difficult champion by design, but I think it's time for Riot to remove the sidewheels (especially when these sidewheels get abused by those who master him)

Tychusfindlay919Sep 19, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zpJt5K3h,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-09-18T22:05:35.945+0000)

Exactly. Yasuo is a difficult champion by design, but I think it's time for Riot to remove the sidewheels (especially when these sidewheels get abused by those who master him)

I find yasuo a shit ton easier than lee sin.

And yasuo is a lot more rewarding

MeliodäsSep 19, 20161 votes

Cause Lee Sin is WAY HARDER than yasuo.

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 19, 20161 votes

debatable. they're both hard champs

MeliodäsNov 11, 20161 votes

Not really debatable. Dashing through the minions effectively isn't hard to do, just a while of practice, same towards outplaying. Then try doing perfect Q>Q>WARD>W>R>FLASH to get whole team knocked up as lee sin.

EROTIC RAID BOSSSep 19, 20162 votes

I don't think its time, unless they're going to compensate with other changes that make him better. he's not op right? so why ask for nerfs other than a personal vendetta against this champ?

Dr PoroSep 19, 20163 votes

His winrate in toplane is still nearly 52% with 75% pick/banrate. I'm not saying a nerf is urgent, but since he's a high skill champion, it doesn't seem that bad if his winrate was slightly below 50%.

TheStevenWuSep 19, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zpJt5K3h,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-19T17:22:20.195+0000)

His winrate in toplane is still nearly 52% with 75% pick/banrate. I'm not saying a nerf is urgent, but since he's a high skill champion, it doesn't seem that bad if his winrate was slightly below 50%.

uhm. when did Yasuo become a high skill champion?

Passive gives him easy trade mode, especially against spell caster in which most top and mid laners are
His Q is a skillshot yes... but it's a relatively long melee and (almost) instant skill shot. Meaning - there's little travel time with a fairly large hit box, making it more click-target than skill.
His W is a wide instant wall that blocks all projectiles. The size of wall doesn't even scale with level - it's just max size from the start. Keep in mind that projectiles is basically his main weakness... and he nullifies it with a non-ultimate skill.
His E is a target dash with basically no cooldown that does decent damage. It allows him to change his one true skillshot (whirlwind) into a target knock up that combos into his ultimate.
His knockup is a AOE target spell that double the time of current CC in a meta where knock-up exists in almost every single game.
On top of all of that, he is not only manaless, but also energy-less. Basically, he gets to spam his high-damage spells constantly while having a passive that protects him and allows him to abuse it.
He is called a noob stomper in bronze for a reason.

OH MY GOD - YASUO IS SUCH A HIGH SKILL CHAMPION

Traits yasuo has:

Escapability - check Gap closer - check AOE - check CC - check Damage - check Defense - check Resource Management - infinite resources, check Versatile build - check (people complain about both tank yasuo and glass canon yasuo) Split push ability - check Sustain - THE ONLY TRAIT HE DOES NOT NATURALLY HAVE

OH MY GOD - YASUO IS SUCH A HIGH. SKILL. CHAMPION.

rant over.

Dr PoroSep 19, 20161 votes

The more things a champion has, the harder he is to play optimally. Azir has almost everything you can think of in the game, he can do anything, but to do so is very hard which is why his winrate is atrocious.

A lot of the high skillcap champions are also frustrating to play against when they do use their kit properly.

Edit: I actually looked up his winrates in all tiers and I have to admit that I was wrong. His performance drops at every tier from bronze (where he has one of the highest winrates) to diamond (where he's slightly below average).

Dabrick01Sep 20, 20162 votes

There are a few tips that people already know about facing a Yasuo; poke his shield off with autos, he's weakest right after his tornado is gone, and he's weak to ganks. I'd like to go into more detail.

The key to beating a Yasuo in lane is proper minion management, and proper management is different depending on whether you're a ranged or melee champion. As a ranged champion, you want to keep the wave in 1 of 2 places depending on Yasuo's health relative to yours. If Yasuo is ahead or even, you want to keep the wave frozen a bit outside of your own tower, so that he has to go into tower range to order to hit you. You can basically do whatever you want to him if the wave is in this spot because you can simply retreat into tower range if he tries to go onto you. However, if you're ahead of him in health, you want to start a slow push, so you can poke him whenever he tries to CS and you'll have a buffer of minion support if he tries to all in you. In this case, he can't do much either.

For a melee champion, you want to slow push pretty much all the time. Yasuo is extremely vulnerable to being all inned by melee champions when he's trying to CS, and a good Yasuo will try to do a slow push of his own to discourage his opponent from attacking him. One important thing to understand is that while enemy minions are oftentimes Yasuo's best friends since he uses them to dash, they are also one of his biggest weaknesses since he's required to tank them in order to trade. If you can bait him into tanking a lot of minions with some kind of defensive ability like an ori shield, you can very easily come out ahead in trades, provided you don't panic, keep autoing, and hit some extra free damage on him when he tries to get out.

Generally speaking, a Yasuo will always want the wave in 1 of 2 places. He either wants a slight minion advantage on his side so he can get free opportunities to poke with Q, but not so many more minions that the wave gets frozen outside the enemy tower. A good Yasuo will bait you into hitting minions with AOE abilities to push the wave back towards him if it starts to get too close to tower, allowing him to be aggressive again. The other position is for when Yasuo has a lead on his opponent; he will want to freeze outside of his tower, leaving a long trail of minions to dash through so he can all in you if you try to walk up to CS. The key to beating Yasuo is to keep the wave where you want it to be rather than the way he wants it to be, or there's not a whole lot you can do as a lot of champions.

Other general tips for beating Yasuo include: Ask for ganks, an aggressive Yasuo player is very easy to bait and kill if he isn't strong enough to 1v2 already. Take exhaust as a combat summoner if your kill pressure on him is low, it’s a great way to neutralize his aggression in lane as well as neuter him in teamfights. If Yasuo misses his tornado, that is the time to be aggressive. His Q is on CD, he has no CC for a while, and his ult, by extension, is unavailable. And if Yasuo gets too aggressive in lane and messes up when trying to trade, all in him right then and there. If you get a lead against Yasuo, most champions will be able to zone him out heavily since he's a squishy melee only champion with no escape and no natural sustain.

Zero Skill TankSep 18, 20164 votes

breaking the way his ult is supposed to work

It's not like it increases range, Yasuo's ult range is bullshit to begin with, only there are few knockups in the game wide enough for it to be noticed often. Those silly turret dive is the most common ~~use-~~ abuse-case.

MatezoideSep 18, 20169 votes

True, i understand what you mean, but it is still stupid.

Like, i dont even think Yasuo is broken, but his ult is supposed to put him at a certain range from the opponent. The game straight up breaks what is supposed to be the limit just to keep him safe.

I am ok with him repositioning to be outside of turret, i really do. What i am not ok with is Yasuo straight up being at a distance that shouldnt be possible just to keep him safe.

Imagine if ADCs could shoot from slighty further than their max range just to stay out of it. Imagine if Malzahar's ult had a range increase when the target is under turret. Etc.

Hell, i understand that this rarely actually matters, since the treehold for increasing his distance from the target isnt that big, but just the fact it exists rubs me in the wrong way, and feels like a tackled on decision. If they dont want turrets to hit him from a certain range during ult, just make it so it cant target him a certain distance or something.

Not to mention it can be harming for him as well. What if Yasuo wants to turret dive, but it automatically puts him too far from the target and he ends up being unable to catch up? Why should he be punished/rewarded (Depending on the situation) because of some completely random mechanic that isnt mentioned anywhere in the entire game? Hell, the least Riot could do is add that part on his ult's description, because it is a fairly important mechanic.

Again, i am not trying to get him nerfed or anything. I just feel this is a tacked on mechanic that only applies to him, that makes you have to go completely out of your way to find out about. Make it so the turret cant attack him at all from a certain range during his ult seems like a better idea, in that it would put him in turret range once it ends and leave both Yasuo and his target at the correct distance from each other.

Actually, his ult in general could use a few tune ups, his final position is fairly inconsistent, as is the range for ulting multiple targets at once.

AmetDeCryptSep 20, 20162 votes

I'd be happy if it worked like tp does now, where it places him on the side that he ulted from.

JhomasTeffersonSep 18, 201636 votes

This

I love yas, and find that currently he is pretty balanced, but what side of you he blinks to when he ults needs to be consistent. That's one of my only complaints against him.

MelledoneusSep 19, 20164 votes

It should be between him and his opponent. That way:

He can follow up with a dash if he wants to go in further and take on his target.
His opponent can still run away should they have mobility or QSS.

Doesn't make him THAT less frustrating to play against, but it helps.

ƒoesSep 18, 201615 votes

It might be excessive, but as a Yasuo player with over 310k Mastery Points on him, the inconsistency of his ult can be very annoying. More times than not, I'll knock up 3 enemies and only ult one of them when they should have all been ulted. The placing out of tower is something I have to abuse, but it's difficult to learn because the distance is always inconsistent and you might not always be in range to E.

It's irritating.

Darkslayer85Sep 18, 201612 votes

Yasuo ults to where your cursor is.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Vistha KaiSep 18, 201612 votes

Except when it doesn't.

ƒoesSep 19, 20162 votes

Oh yes, I know this, but it's not consistent and can be finicky at times.

Like I said, I'll knock up 3 enemies, only ult one of them, even when my cursor is in the middle of all three of them.

It sucks to have spent so much time practicing landing your ult perfectly every time only to find that due to bugs it doesn't even matter.

General TherittSep 19, 20161 votes

its most likely because if they're tank or Irelia, they're using this item 3111 or this item 3140 to avoid it. Also, Yasuo's knockup is progressive if its his tornado, not instant like his e + q combo. This means he can indeed knock up multiple opponents, but some leave the knockup faster than others, depending on item builds or passive abilities. And then there's item 3102 which denies the knockup. Also, even without these abilities, arguably its still pretty astonishing they'd keep his ability. While utility champs do counter him ( Lissandra ) he has a 0.2 CD dash that is infinite as long as its not on the same target, double crit, a free shield, armor pierce, a projectile nullification ability that CANNOT be destroyed or adjusted, a straight-line or circular slash that deals crit (with reduced damage, but infinity edge fixes it), a knockup of a line projectile, or an AoE slash knockup, and a prolonging high damage attack. He can be built like a bruiser and still deal an extremely large amount of damage even with its nerfs, and can easily 1v5 thanks to his massive burst combo potential.

His kit screams overloaded, something CertainlyT is notorious for in most of his champions. Thresh luckily got bogged down by good support players making adjustments against him, and Darius is Darius and can be stopped by top ranged opponents, but they were basically GIVEN that counterplay because, like we know, they become absolutely obnoxious. Release Kalista? Betcha remember that. Release Zyra? "oh I love black and white simulator bot-lane edition!". Yasuo honestly needs a major downside besides "pick a CC mage" because that's unfair counterplay, and once again, something that he CAN overcome dramatically well, thanks to dashes and windwall, and point and click CC is very rare and pretty negative to gameplay, hence why they removed it or dramatically increased how valuable it is. I wouldn't say he's horrific right now, tank yasuo was annoying but you could counter him. He honestly needs a lot of touchups in the assassin rework. I would know over-loaded. I'm a Gnar main. I know how incredibly annoying his kit is, but its more raw value rather than killing power. He can easily be countered by a multitude of characters who can out-value him in certain ways.

PierogiSep 20, 20161 votes

"tank yasuo was annoying but you could counter him. He honestly needs a lot of touchups in the assassin rework. I would know over-loaded. I'm a Gnar main"

the issue with this statement, is you could "could counter tank yasuo" I'm curious what methods work to counter pre nerf tank yasuo, that didn't work vs assassin yasuo? what id like to mention is how different is laning phase from fervor tank yasuo, to fervor assassin yasuo, top? "Countering" tank yasuo in lane was identical to countering assassin yasuo. most matchups before his ult nerfs, you either went PD, and a smaller majority went triforce first.

like I'm sure many may agree, The issue with Tank yasuo wasn't that he suddenly had a better laning phase, the fact was like many assassin-turned-tanks, he could deal a large majority of the damage that his assassin counter part could, but was not able to be focused down quickly.

assassin yasuo is high risk, high reward. similar to how assassins should be.

General TherittSep 21, 20161 votes

You have to specifically build around his brusier build. You have to take into account "Will this item increase my chance of killing/surviving him?" countering Tank yasuo was much different. And "high risk high reward" is very over-used in yasuo's case. He is precisely that if you're not an avid player. If you do put some time into learning him, he becomes an absolute monster that is almost incapable of being stopped. Being good at a character SHOULD give you an advantage, but it shouldn't therefore spike massively. Aurelion Sol is extremely "high risk high reward", a niche pick, and prominently gets nerfed because of it. Riot accepts his power and tunes it down as to not be obnoxious. Yasuo, on the other hand, rarely gets changes unless its a direct nerf, in which they also give him a buff. "Oh. sorry, you gotta build crit (even with tank, you'd do that anyway and still get away with it, since it takes 2 items) but here's this random free attack speed boost because reasons". Its barely justified. When I see a nerf, it should come with good reason. But it shouldn't be given compensation for a loss that it legitimately deserved.

As for his risk.... well... its mostly non-existent unless you, like I said, don't have much experience. Annie is a big Yasuo counter, and she can easily be picked off by him. Lissandra is too, and can even build tank, but thanks to Yasuo's natural burst + CC appliance, she can die very quickly if she doesn't lock him down with her CC specifically, or self-ult to preserve her HP. That's legitimately disgusting. And the fact that you have CC, hard CC at that, with 0 Mana, and a free shield and a "get-in/get-out" dash, he doesn't fall off too hard even if he loses lane, because eventually he still gets crit, and still shts on players. Oh, and once again. Windwall. Luckily its cooldown is long, but its still just as disgustingly overloaded.

There's a reason why Trinimmortal and other well known Yasuo mains can do extremely well even when their team is feeding, simply because they've invested the amount of time, then almost doubled it. I can't win every matchup with Gnar. I know that. But Yasuo has the potential to destroy any possible matchup unless they have point and click CC or very focused CC, where they ignore your team and go specifically for you, which can be a MASSIVE waste of their resources. His kit needs tuning, like I said. I understand others think this might take away, but it would be more interesting for his "wind" to build up like passive stacks that he can consume to use moves besides his dash. It would make him much more balanced and would compensate for the massive amount of power he has, where you need to acknowledge "Will I have (blank) enough stacks of wind to pull off a triple Q combo into ult?" because as of now, he only has 1 or two things bogging him down that are probably his only counterplay: Point and click CC, and anti-projectile attacks. Which both are VERY rare.

Like, I don't prefer to massacre champions. But Yasuo needs changes. He desperately does. There's a reason why he's still banned frequently even after his buffs and before that. He's just that overloaded and annoying. Ekko has the same problem of being completely overloaded as an assassin, and Riot is determined to fix it, and he HAS resources, mind you. Once again, I'll acknowledge the same of my main currently. Right now he's too solid of a pick. No offense, but face the facts.

MunchCrunchLunchSep 18, 201610 votes

#LCSBIGPLAYS.

Riot inserting hidding power.

takeZOOOOOOSep 18, 20164 votes

they dont even play yas in lcs anymore .. he only has his peak of high play when he was released

JhomasTeffersonSep 19, 20161 votes

he's too difficult, even for pros

NightmareAmazoXSep 19, 20162 votes

Nah^

statelesskillerSep 19, 20167 votes

definitely. if he is tower diving you he should face the consequences of that tower dive.

Meep ManSep 19, 20167 votes

If Yasuo works this way, so should Warwick

xScarfySep 19, 20165 votes

Ok, thats just unfair...if he goes for a towerdive than he should face the same threats of it that every other champion has to deal with!

SlowChemicalSep 19, 20165 votes

Seriously. What the fuck is this bullshit?

DunkinNoobsSep 18, 20163 votes

Yasuo's ult is already shitty. Leave it alone. If you happen to stand in the exact perfect spot so that his ult places him outside tower range, then that's on you.

Dr PoroSep 18, 20166 votes

Watch the video for 20 seconds. There is no special position that your target has to be in for this to happen. It also happens when you are well within the turret range. The game just places Yasuo a bit further away from you to keep him safe from harm.

Do you know why they call it Lee Sin syndrome and not Yasuo syndrome? Because Yasuo doesn't die when he presses the button.

DunkinNoobsSep 18, 20163 votes

You have to be in a certain position for Yasuo's ult to move him out of tower range. The ability has a limited leash distance; Yasuo's ult will only place him outside of tower range if doing so will still keep him within that leash distance. What does that mean for you? Stand to the side near the walls, rather than in front of the tower. Standing in front of your tower almost guarantees that Yasuo's ult will place him outside its range. Standing closer to the wall will not allow Yasuo's ult to position him outside of tower range.

Dr PoroSep 18, 20164 votes

Sadly, you can't afford to do that if you want to farm as a melee champ.

DunkinNoobsSep 19, 20164 votes

If you're getting ulted under tower and dying as a melee champion, you already fucked up. Start taking responsibility for yourself.

Spaceman5pffSep 19, 20162 votes

Not my fault that I, a silver 5 jungler playing mid for once, got put up against a plat 1 400k yasuo main.

Also, news flash, YASUO WINS MANY MELEE MATCHUPS.

DunkinNoobsSep 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Not my fault that I, a silver 5 jungler playing mid for once, got put up against a** plat 1** 400k yasuo main.

And you blame the champion. Adorable.

Spaceman5pffSep 19, 20165 votes

Actually I didn't.

I blamed matchmaking for placing me against someone MASSIVELY more experienced than me.

Also.... again? That was my first comment in this chain. Classic Yas Main, always shitting on everyone for hating their well-dressed, agile tumor.

MelledoneusSep 19, 20165 votes

Because it's so fun when Yasuo can take Fervor and deal a crapton more damage the more he hits me and maintains that damage throughout laning phase and I can't duel him anymore. Boy, it's so fun to play against the E stacking, the Q stacking, the ridiculous auto attack speed at level 1, and the fact that my flash doesn't mean shit if I happen to have a minion wave coming in.

RozzetaSep 19, 20163 votes

Still not worse than having Nami's stun be changed to a new form of cc, "floating" or something like that, specifically to have Yasuo ult to enemies affected by it. Because he deserves the clarity of ulting to enemies that look like they're knocked up even if they're not (Riot confirmed during Beta that Nami's Q was not a knock up), even if his Wind Wall blocks attacks that don't look like projectiles at all (bonus points for supposedly subterranean attacks.

BottleCapsterSep 19, 20161 votes

Funny enough this was something I brought up when Riot was talking about their reluctance to create a new spell-typing for underground projectiles when Poppy's rework was released. They literally already created a new spell-classification when they made Yasuo, and he is one of only three champions to have access to this type of crowd control, known as "Suspension". The Three champions are of course Nami Velkoz and Yasuo . The CC type is literally only used for Yasuo since he's the only champion currently with an ability that benefits from mid-air status. Other fun note is that Suspension is able to be cleansed, and as such you can cleanse Yasuo's ultimate. His damage from it is still pretty much guaranteed, but at least you can move!

HigeSep 19, 20163 votes

WTF????

IM ACTUALLY TRIGGERED

Emerald FangSep 19, 20162 votes

2 months ago I can still remember people didn't give a shit about yasuo. It was all about Zed. Ah, the good old days...

Dextix LTSep 19, 20167 votes

Because these champions are the most frustrating to play against even if they are not on op level.

Akali is SO HOTSep 18, 20161 votes

You can choose your position when you ult as Yasuo. Most Yasuo's are just smart enough to not position themselves under an enemy turret when they ult someone.

Guy Fox TeemoSep 19, 20161 votes

Whether its balanced or not. This is due to the fact that if he dives with his ult, by the time his animation is finished he would take like 2 extra tower shots.

And whether you like it or not Glass Cannon Yasuo is balanced, and this addition to his ult was added in mind with Yasuo being a glass cannon.

Dr PoroSep 19, 20165 votes

'Glass cannon Yasuo' still builds 2 defensive items as his last items because he only needs 2 crit items + BT for the offensive part and 'Glass Cannon' build in top lane has 53.68% Win Rate. Against mages he's balanced, but against melee champions, he's still too strong. Oddly, because he was supposed to be a midlaner, fighting mages.

SkiasSep 19, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Poro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zpJt5K3h,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2016-09-19T10:52:12.136+0000)

'Glass cannon Yasuo' still builds 2 defensive items as his last items because he only needs 2 crit items + BT for the offensive part and 'Glass Cannon' build in top lane has 53.68% Win Rate. Against mages he's balanced, but against melee champions, he's still too strong. Oddly, because he was supposed to be a midlaner, fighting mages.

Not yo mention PD gives him a flat damage reduction as well, because ADC items need defense.

AWyldSylveonSep 19, 20161 votes

Wasn't Yasuo created with the intention of being a melee ADC and going bot (hence his kit being so loaded with ridiculous anti-range devices and gap-closers)?